Fate/ Series Q&A

[Rising Dragon]

Simply put, in the Fate and Unlimited Blade Works routes, Shirou Emiya retains his ideals. While the Fate route develops them, Unlimited Blade Works challenges them in the form of Archer, revealing what those ideals could lead him to. Ultimately, Shirou retains his ideals along with the knowledge of where it will lead him, and vows to not let it come to pass, to prevent himself from becoming an alien existence like Archer.

The Heaven's Feel route has Shirou discard his ideals. Granted, he still wants to save people, still wants to be a hero, IIRC, but he ends up having to see the lives of those he cares about as weighing more heavily than the lives of those not associated with him. Prior to this paradigm shift, Shirou saw all lives as equal weight, that every soul he saves is no more important than the others. In the Heaven's Feel route, because of Sakura, he ends up having to prioritize saving her, at the cost of losing lives he could've saved otherwise. Whereas Shirou has conflict with Archer in UBW due to his retaining those ideals that Archer himself had discarded, Shirou and Archer lack that conflict in Heaven's Feel because Shirou has discarded the ideals that Archer had wanted to break him of. As a result, Archer is able to operate as a Counter Guardian in the conflict with Sakura and Zouken. This drastically changes the direction of the story, moreso than the difference between the Fate and Unlimited Blade Works routes before it. Certain events could be changed in the Heaven's Feel route, like Shirou saving Saber from Dark Sakura, but I get the feeling that would radically alter Shirou's perception and development along that route.

As such, the existence that is Shirou Emiya in the Fate and Unlimited Blade Works are fundamentally incompatible with the existence that is Shirou Emiya in the Heaven's Feel route.

(someone with fresher knowledge can and should correct me wherever I am wrong or expand on missing information)

[Dengar]

Also, in two of three routes, the HGW goes more or less as expected, with some kinks introduced later on but in the end is wrapped up neatly.

In Heaven's Feel, the HGW gets kind of derailed very near the beginning and the plot becomes almost something else entirely.

[RDNexus]

Then, in the least, Fate & UBW could exist as a single timeline while Heaven's Feel would be like an alien timeline of sorts...
I believe the conflict between Shirou & Archer is a fulcral one since Archer's very presence in the story makes it seem like something bound to happen...

By the way, Kinoko said that the UBW Anime would have some small tinkering in the plot or something like it... Has anyone noticed anything of that sort?

[Rev Okkin]

Well, there are small changes in the portrayal of NPs, Servant battles, lore revelations, new flashbacks bleeding everywhere.

[RDNexus]

Excuse me... "NPs"?

[Rising Dragon]

Noble Phantasms.

[Tenzen12]

That said possibility of all routes compelled in same timeline is while unlikely, possible -in universe-. And result of that possibility is FHA.

[RDNexus]

Ataraxia? But even that one doesn't throw much of hints as to how did things happen in the original story... As far as I know...

[Dengar]

The reason Ataraxia's "timeline" works the way it does is because of an event that "made all possibilities happen simultaneously". It's not really the result of any one timeline.

[Rising Dragon]

Fate/hollow ataraxia's "timeline", in actuality IIRC, just a dreamworld conjured up by Avenger for Bazett's sake, and what's actually happening is that he's using the people and Servants of the Fifth Holy Grail War to recreate the events of the Third Holy Grail War.

[Dengar]

Well, yes, I was just trying to explain without giving the away the entire game's plot. :P

But that "world" is one where "all possibilities happened", which is why everyone except for one guy is alive, and also why facts from several different routes are acknowledged.

But bottom line is, Hollow Ataraxia's events don't result from any one timeline.

[RDNexus]

If any of you had the chance to arrange the three routes' events into one single timeline, how'd you do it?
And yes, I know Heaven's Feel's events are virtually impossible to mix into the other routes' events...

[Levani]

Are Alaya and Gaia part of the "Root"?

[JustThisOne]

Originally Posted by Levani

Are Alaya and Gaia part of the "Root"?

For simplicity's sake, yeah.

[Levani]

Originally Posted by JustThisOne

For simplicity's sake, yeah.

I'd like a detailed explanation too, Erika-chan.

[TwilightsCall]

Originally Posted by xrick

If any of you had the chance to arrange the three routes' events into one single timeline, how'd you do it?
And yes, I know Heaven's Feel's events are virtually impossible to mix into the other routes' events...

Accepting the fact this would end up with a terrible story without massive rewriting, here is my best effort.

-Common route is fine as is. Let Saber smack Archer so he vis considerably wounded. First meeting with Berserker and Assassin goes according to Fate route.
-Battle with Bloodfort goes according to Fate, except Rider "dies" a la HF. First encounter with the Shadow happens at the school.
-Zouken kills Assassin and summons True Assassin, who shortly after kills Lancer
-Illya kidnaps Shirou a la Fate
-The rescue goes the same way, except in the end the Shadow appears and kills Berserker, not Saber. They take Illya and run. Archer survives.
-They get back home to find Caster has taken Fujimura hostage. Caster flees with her hostage back to the Ryuudou temple.
-They pursue her to the temple. Caster successfully rule-breaks Saber, but dies to Archer while Saber is resisting her Command Spells. As they try and escape, True Assassin and Zouken appear. While Saber tries to hold them off, everyone else escapes. The Shadow then appears and kills Saber.
-Once they realize Saber is dead, Archer traces Rule Breaker and breaks his contract with Rin. He attacks Shirou, but Rider returns and saves him. Archer kidnaps Rin and runs to the Einzbern Castle.
-Shirou leaves Illya with Kotomine, and three things happen simultaneously:
1) Shirou goes to the Einzbern Castle for a showdown with Archer. He wins at the cost of one of his arms, but Archer gives his arm to Shirou thanks to Shirou giving Archer closure for his life of regret. Archer dies.
2) Gilgamesh attacks Sakura, trying to destroy the fake Grail. Sakura brings out Berserker Alter, who dies rather quickly, but is taken off guard by a sneaky excaliblast from Saber Alter. Gilgamesh dies.
3) True Assassin attacks Illya, in an attempt to destroy the true Grail, but Kotomine wrecks his shit. True Assassin is incapacitated.
-Rider and Rin bring the critically wounded Shirou back, and Kotomine and Illya successfully transplant and seal the Arm with the Shroud of Martin.
-After dealing with Gilgamesh, Shinji pushes Sakura too far and she goes berserk, killing him and taking off. Zouken follows her. They both end up at the Altar of the Beginning, where the now Berserk Sakurakills Zouken and True Assassin.
-Shirou, Rin, and Rider pursue Sakura, and the rest basically follows the normal route to HF True End. Shirou and Rider beat Saber Alter, Rin saves Sakura, Shirou beats Kotomine and right before dying himself Illya moves him into a new body, sacrificing herself. Roll credits.


Another possible alternative that could be edited in above is, Gil never attacks Sakura, so Shirou ends up getting to use 9 Lives to kill Berserker. Then instead of killing Saber Alter, they manage to save her, and they go to the final showdown as Rin vs Sakura, Shirou vs Kotomine, and Saber vs Gilgamesh.

So that would cover the main events. As far as covering the main themes, I would do it like this:

-Shirou is forced to come to terms with the flaws in his Ideal while fighting against Archer, as per usual in UBW.
-Saber's story is extended all the way to the end, and she is convinced to give up her wish as she is defeated by Shirou and Rider, thanks to Shirou's new found insight learned from fighting Archer. Saber then either dies in peace or is saved somehow, whichever your preference.
-Rather than giving up entirely on his ideal, Shirou decides to revamp it: he wants to save the people in front of him, the people he loves, not just everyone everywhere. He still wants to be a super hero, he just accepts a more realistic scope for his Ideal, allowing him to rescue Sakura instead of killing her, and preventing him from ever becoming Archer.


Obviously this is far from a perfect way of organizing it, but aside from some minor tweaks, I doubt there is much closer one can get to a coherent story that tries to merge all three routes.

[Rising Dragon]

Could probably work it so that if Shirou wanted to prevent Saber from being corrupted, he could summon her with a Command Seal when she's about to get nommed by Dark Sakura.

[TwilightsCall]

Which raises an interesting question: Shirou with Archer's Arm and still contracted to Saber, so Avalon is still active. What happens? (Basically, does Avalon protect his mind as well as his body?)

[RDNexus]

Thanks, TwilightsCall, for your interesting attempt at building a mixed version of the three routes.

But, if only Fate & UBW were taken into account, things could possibly run much smoother, I guess?

[TwilightsCall]

Originally Posted by Levani

Are Alaya and Gaia part of the "Root"?

I waited to look up some info on this because I wasn't entirely sure before, but now that I have I'll post.


Gaia is the collective unconscious of the planet (including all living things and non-living things on Earth). Since it is a phenomenon directly tied into Earth, it's not part of the Root.

Alaya is the collective unconscious of the human race, which developed once humanity began to become independent of Gaia. As a force born from Gaia, which is not part of the Root, it can't be part of the Root either.

I suppose if you go back far enough, everything is "part" of the Root, since all of everything in existence originally came from it (hence the name, Spiral of Origin), but aside from that I'm not sure what JustThisOne is talking about...?