(L) Kyoshiro to Towa no Sora

[Honey_and_Cleaver]

Originally Posted by Deathkillz

the reason for them kissing can be explained soo easily...if anyone has seen any of type-moons stories then they will know how mages recover their mana...basically its the same here...notice how setsuna was injured but then totally healed after the kiss...i suspect that she has a contract with kyoshiro ~ look at the preview and we see "Chikane" and "himeko" kissing (well its just a guess so you dont have to take my word for it but i think it will be somewhere along those lines )

Really? I thought theyre were plenty of ways to recharge mana, like drinking M
P elixir in RPG games, or having a healer to recharge mana or just simply resting.

Kissing? I thought thats only done when two contract soceress and sorceror shows their lovers,engaged or something just like in demonbane? You mean any magic girl can recharge their mana by kissing any magic guy and its legitimate? I mean can a girl kiss a girl to recharge her mana or a man kiss a man? Thats like a mana charging kiss fiesta!!!! Everybody randomly kissing each other when they need mana!!



First episode of Kyoshiro to towa no sora was predictable to me. KnM had good storyline, there wasnt much to explain about the characters background to me, when i saw the few last episodes, it explained everything to me, the first episode jumped into fights and flash of new characters jumped in right away, really great anime. Tsubasa really put a good fight with Chikane, it was a the first time ive seen two beautiful,extremely cool and strong characters of the opposite sex fought each other, that was nothing ive ever seen. The mech fighting scenes was brutal and most of the fights was bare handed which was really cool. All the orochi member came one by one and it was a good intro. The romance was deep and realistic and Chikane really went through a lot of pain watching Himeko and Oogami together.

I hope something crazy jumps in Kyoshiro to towa no sora soon. I hope they dont drag it with the fairy tale romance and put up some lame pitiful mech fights with useless opponents just to please some audience. I hope someone comes in and start turning things upside down because the first episode is a drag.

[Deathkillz]

Originally Posted by Honey_and_Cleaver

Really? I thought theyre were plenty of ways to recharge mana, like drinking M
P elixir in RPG games, or having a healer to recharge mana or just simply resting.

Kissing? I thought thats only done when two contract soceress and sorceror shows their lovers,engaged or something just like in demonbane? You mean any magic girl can recharge their mana by kissing any magic guy and its legitimate? I mean can a girl kiss a girl to recharge her mana or a man kiss a man? Thats like a mana charging kiss fiesta!!!! Everybody randomly kissing each other when they need mana!!

well this concept of kissing to regain mana is unique to this universe (series) so no i wont say that its the same for every series ~ as if you look at fate/stay night the mages had sex to do the job ~

also i dont think it works with any random person ~ it either has to be 1) a mage tat you had made a contract with or 2) both sides agree to share their mana ~

[Chiibi]

Let's take a look at the young fellow on the train.

His features are more delicate and femine than Mizuho and Jun, and I swear the shading on his/her/its chest, indicate breasts far more than pectoral muscles. He's far to femine to even play a lead in a Takarazuka show.

I agree his face totally looks like a girl and even I thought that was weird. BUT those do not look like breasts to me. He'd be a REALLY flat girl if they were!

Now you seem to think that the only other option to bishounen are hairy machos or sweaty fat guys. Lets look at a few contemporary, attractive, non-bishie anime males:
Light Yagami

Archer

Kurz Weber

Kirihara Naoto

Itsuki Koizumi

To fangirls, those ARE bishies. We don't go by wikipedia's lame definition. We think they ARE "pretty".

Hitoshi Ota and Terumasa Shichinohe managed to keep the bishies at bay in most of their other works; look at KnM's Sōma Ōgami for example or Princess Valkyrie's Kazuto Tokino.
They were both good looking lads whose character designs were young and attractive, but didn't sport 20lbs of make-up. Why they felt they needed to bishie them up for Kyoshiro to Towa no Sora, which is obviously shounen is beyond me.

TOTAL bishounen and btw, bishounen do NOT have to wear make-up. I draw the line at make-up, actually. Hence, I am very turned off by Wallflower's anime...and Souma's clone looks exactly the same, save the hair color.

So while I can admire characters like the immediately aforementioned, I stand by my assertion that bishies creep the heck out of me and most likely a good 80% (see I can make up stats too) of Kyoshiro to Towa no Sora's target audience.

Ohhh WHAT is so confusing!?
See, there's a thing called breasts. They are located in the chest area? Don't see any? No? Then they are MEN. And like I said, they need them for the STORY. Girls. Like. Pretty. Guys.

I haven't a clue. Shoujo mangaka are overwhelmingly women, so why do you think guys should suffer for their shortcomings.

*laughs* Oh PLEASE. Suffering? It actually makes you suffer? That is hilarious.
Aren't we being a tad dramatic there?

All in all, I'm terribly sorry 'cause I'm so "very ignorant", but I hope I answered most of your witty and overwhelmingly well informed questions and defamations to your satisfaction. I hope an anime genius like yourself can forgive my imputince for both this and the previous post.

Hmm I'll think about it.

P.S. BTW, I'm not new to anime at all Chiibi-chan. and can claim some 220+ series sitting on bookshelves and hard drives from the last 17 years (I'm almost 31).

Good then you surely must understand the marketing values of anime.

[martino]

My short thoughts on episode 1:

Spoiler:

This was kinda weird...

First the guy undressing her top, then the catgirl, then the mechas, and finally the threesome.

What the hell is going on?!?

Still, the bishoujos are cute...

I'll just keep watching this, even though so far I wasn't really impressed...

[Kaoru Chujo]

This thread is a strong proof of the fact that when we talk about an anime being "good" or "bad," we are usually talking about our personal preferences rather than any objective standard. (Not that philip72 claimed anything different.)

In any case, I find this extreme aversion to the character design quite excessive. I don't understand why Kyoushiro's stylishness is so repulsive. He seems like a strong character to me. Although, in the interest of full disclosure, I should say that I found the lead guy in KnM repulsive -- as I did that whole show. It had a meanness of spirit, for me, that this show hasn't yet given evidence of.

warning: since a sub has already been out for over a day, I'm not going to use spoiler tags.

Personally, I didn't find the plot strange at all. Or at least not strange for an anime. A world full of magic. A special girl who doesn't realize she is special. (The cat girl's "who are you" and Kyoushiro's finding some flash of a sign on Kuu's skin.) Elegant mecha in small doses. The kiss-recharge of magical power. Add the prince who comes to take you away, a shoujo meme. A mixture of genres, but so far more acceptable to me than KnM's mixture. Clearly, they're trying to capture both male and female audiences. If too many guys feel such revulsion toward Kyoushiro, I guess it's not going to work, though.

Aside: I resist strongly any suggestion that shoujo romance is in any way inferior to other genres. In my opinion, it is generally superior. All genres run variations on standard plots. Shoujo romance, of all genres, may have the most emotional intensity and psychological depth. A show like Bokura ga Ita is psychologically far more complex, realistic and intense than any number of shounen adventure/romance stories, at least for me. Of course, the fact that a subtle, shoujo-ish show like Asatte no Houkou was from a seinen magazine shows the shifting nature of these classifications.

[Kaijin]

Originally Posted by philip72

Now you seem to think that the only other option to bishounen are hairy machos or sweaty fat guys. Lets look at a few contemporary, attractive, non-bishie anime males:
Light Yagami

Archer

Kurz Weber

Kirihara Naoto

Itsuki Koizumi


All of these characters are young and reasonably attractive without looking like drag queens who escaped an explosion at the L'Oreal factory. The characters were all designed using a male archetype as their basis, rather than a female one as in the case with bishies.

Hitoshi Ota and Terumasa Shichinohe managed to keep the bishies at bay in most of their other works; look at KnM's Sōma Ōgami for example or Princess Valkyrie's Kazuto Tokino.
They were both good looking lads whose character designs were young and attractive, but didn't sport 20lbs of make-up. Why they felt they needed to bishie them up for Kyoshiro to Towa no Sora, which is obviously shounen is beyond me.

So while I can admire characters like the immediately aforementioned, I stand by my assertion that bishies creep the heck out of me and most likely a good 80% (see I can make up stats too) of Kyoshiro to Towa no Sora's target audience.
[/I]

I much prefer the above images to the feminine men. I like my man to be...well, manly. I would still consider them bishie though, cause in my own (deranged) opinion, it's the fact that they are pretty/beautiful men to me. Being a beautiful man doesn't mean you have to be borderline woman.

[kyok]

Originally Posted by MeganeShounen

I remember that someone compared the mecha in KyoSora to the Stands in JoJo's Bizarre Adventure. I can personally compare them to the Phase Avatars in .hack//GU. They are both extensions and at the same time, separate entities of their owners.

Did I forget to mention that they all kick ass?

Yes, I did get those wierd flashbacks of the "cabin and CG dragon scene" from Fate/stay night when they kissed. Oddly enough. Seems like Kyoshiro only has eyes on Kuu, and looking at the OP, Setsuna-chan and Kuu will seem to have a friendly relationship. And if Haruhi willing... we'd get another Yuri pair.

Yes I really like the idea of stands as well, they're much more intimate then bulky hulking mechs that people ride in. I quite fancy the Saber-Rin pairing like alot of people do too *drool*

philip72, some of your pictures didn't show up but I see what you're getting at. I think that bishies for the most part aren't really the problem it's just some drawings make them overtly androgynous. While some characters in KyoSora aren't Jun Watarase trap level, they are a little too feminine looking then most bishies. Though do you have a problem with Kyoshiro..? I'd imagine most people wouldn't have much of a problem with bishounen characters as they're somewhat common in anime/manga.

ultimate (delicious) trap Jun

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

...I should say that I found the lead guy in KnM repulsive -- as I did that whole show. It had a meanness of spirit, for me, that this show hasn't yet given evidence of.

Aside: I resist strongly any suggestion that shoujo romance is in any way inferior to other genres. In my opinion, it is generally superior. All genres run variations on standard plots. Shoujo romance, of all genres, may have the most emotional intensity and psychological depth. A show like Bokura ga Ita is psychologically far more complex, realistic and intense than any number of shounen adventure/romance stories, at least for me. Of course, the fact that a subtle, shoujo-ish show like Asatte no Houkou was from a seinen magazine shows the shifting nature of these classifications.

Why didn't you like Souma? Not to say that it was a great character, as he was definitely under developed and seemingly one dimensional. In a way when you say meanness of spirit do you mean.. the way that Souma-Himeko pairing was a giving type of love almost typical romance and that Souma would do anything for Himeko, whereas the Himeko-Chikane pairing was more forced and "selfish" being that Chikane wanted to take/ravage Himeko. Both pairings in the context of love but one more passive and the other more aggressive.
Personally I had a hard time accepting the coupling even knowing the premise since either the sempai-kouhai pairing which I haven't seen done well or that in KnM there was a lack of affection/romantic build up. It felt as though Himeko went lesbian the last minute but it wasn't too convincing, although if anything she is bi.

Again I agree that the emotional/relationships are often better in shoujo stories (by definition almost), I've found some seinen stories that are quite good (Kashimashi). From my recollection the one major thing I liked about shounen romances (or maybe i'm confusing these with seinen) is that they seem to make progress faster at the cost of drama which sometimes shoujo stories just love to drag out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seinen
The list is somewhat shocking as I didn't know where some of the animes i've seen didn't fit into either shounen/shoujo.

[Chiibi]

Originally Posted by kyok

Why didn't you like Souma? Not to say that it was a great character, as he was definitely under developed and seemingly one dimensional. In a way when you say meanness of spirit do you mean.. the way that Souma-Himeko pairing was a giving type of love almost typical romance and that Souma would do anything for Himeko, whereas the Himeko-Chikane pairing was more forced and "selfish" being that Chikane wanted to take/ravage Himeko. Both pairings in the context of love but one more passive and the other more aggressive.

Just my opinion but SoumaxHimeko >>>> ChikanexHimeko. I adore Souma and the SoumaxHimeko pairing.

Personally I had a hard time accepting the coupling even knowing the premise since either the sempai-kouhai pairing which I haven't seen done well or that in KnM there was a lack of affection/romantic build up. It felt as though Himeko went lesbian the last minute but it wasn't too convincing, although if anything she is bi.

OMFG YES. Someone else noticed this too!? That's why I hate the pairing...it was TOTALLY last minute and I found it very unconvincing as well. I also hate it because of that.....THING in episode 8...>_<

[Kaoru Chujo]

Originally Posted by kyok

...Why didn't you like Souma?...From my recollection the one major thing I liked about shounen romances (or maybe i'm confusing these with seinen) is that they seem to make progress faster at the cost of drama which sometimes shoujo stories just love to drag out....

My reaction to Souma was kind of gut-level, so I'm not really sure why I didn't like him. Maybe it was just that I wanted the girl to get the girl, lol. I just got ugly vibes off him for the four or five episodes I watched. He seemed selfish and crude to me, beneath his better qualities. Of course, the horrid episode 8 showed that his female opponent was even worse.

You're right about shounen/shoujo romances in general, I think. But Suzuka, for example, is pretty slow-developing, too. I'm following the manga and the (sometimes enjoyable) frustration continues.

Thanks for the link to the Wikipedia info about seinen. Very interesting. I hadn't realized how many shows I like were originally seinen manga.

[Aoie_Emesai]

It's quite hilarious how love and romance is used and exergerated over and over again.

The animation is tip top, but youtube don't really offer quality till the better version is completed for me.

I'll continue to follow it, of course ^_^.

[Honey_and_Cleaver]

Originally Posted by Deathkillz

well this concept of kissing to regain mana is unique to this universe (series) so no i wont say that its the same for every series ~ as if you look at fate/stay night the mages had sex to do the job ~

also i dont think it works with any random person ~ it either has to be 1) a mage tat you had made a contract with or 2) both sides agree to share their mana ~

Rin did it because she had a crush on Saber all along. If Setsuna did it with Kyoshiro, that means what? Setsuna is like Kyoshiros sex secretery! and Kuu is his genuine lover? You got to be kidding.

Souma Oogami is ok, but atleast he went for one girl and thats enough, what bothers me is that Oogami voice is too irritating, he screams like a fool, i agree he is kind of selfish and oblivious to whats going on . And theres no one that can beat him up than his brother, but thats good, atleast theres a balance.

Kyoshiro however is a piece of two timing idiot. He needs balance otherwise its going out of control.


KnM is a good anime, i have no yuri or yaoi prejudice. Kyoshiro to towa is just too fantasy fairy tale romance, i want genuine romance like Full metal panic! and KnM.

[Chiibi]

Originally Posted by philip72

You and your pals can call then whatever the heck you want; but by the common usage (even among fangirls) of the word, both in Japan and the english speaking anime community, they are not bishounen.

I don't know where you get that. That isn't true where I come from.

If you still insisted upon using the bi prefex for the second set of characters I showed, we could get even more technical and say that only Koizumi Itsuki would qualify as a shounen as all the rest are seinen (Biseinen is occasionally used, but with less frequency, mostly in yaoi manga).

I use the term loosely for any young-LOOKING attractive anime male, usually because "bishounen" is better known.

My initial criticism was about the inclusion of actual bishounen in the anime, and I think a good many people understood what I was referring to.
I was not saying the show shouldn't have attractive men in it, I was stating my distaste for a certain type of excessively feminized male character in what is a primarily shounen show.

And I'M saying that it's only fair for a shounen series to have some shoujo elements when shoujo series have some shounen elements. Both audiences should be treated equally! And you should either stop whining
or stop watching the show...geeze.

I find it rather suprising that someone who has informed me that she is better versed in the world of anime than I am, and apparently far less ignorant; would deliberately misconstrue my statement on bishounen, as an attack on attractive male characters in general.

It certainly seemed like it. And I obviously DO know some things you do not, especially on how anime is marketed and what audiences want. Because if you knew you wouldn't complain about such trivial things and you certainly wouldn't call the creator an "idiot".

Most girls I've dated who were slim, usually didn't have bigger busts than him; slim girls don't usually develop large busts until pregnancy.

There's a difference between large and having nothing there.

Less dramatic than your posts.

Ha...right.

OK, I'm done arguing with you now, go be dumb and offensive to someone else.

How dare you say that to me when I haven't even called YOU a childish insult like "dumb". All I said was that you "sounded ignorant", indicating that you DID sound like you didn't know what you were talking about BUT I did not say you WERE ignorant. I am very surprised you'd resort to saying a direct insult. especially since you are as old as you claim to be. I thought you were more mature. It's quite clear on who is the bigger person here.

[DragoonKain3]

I have always thought that any attractive looking male are by definition bishies or bishounen. Though this is only in my personal experience, but every girl I know of defines say, the Gundam Wing heroes as bishies, and unless my eyes are really bad they are far from feminine looking. Maybe the true textbook definition of bishies are men who have very feminine characteristics, but where I come from it is understood that bishies refer to (or is slang for) any handsome, attractive teenage boy.


Still, I find it quite amusing that Koizumi has been used as an example of an attractive male character without much or any female characteristics, because well, he's gay. LOL XD Not that I'm saying that regular looking men can't be gay. On the contrary, I have met a fair bit of them over my lifetime.


As for ambiguizing the look of a lot of the main characters, I don't really mind it so much. I've been accustomed to it since its more commonplace now (Final Fantasy comes to mind); as long they're hetero, it's just fine and dandy with me.


And back on topic, I'm impressed by the first eps, particularly because of the well animated fight scenes. Not as much as I was with eps 1 of KnM (mainly because KnM's OP and ED ROCKED while here it was a meh), but hopefully my view of the series don't go downward as it did with KnM. That said, I think I'm going to watch this show for just enjoyment rather than expecting a good plot or whatnot, since to me every anime's plot right now seems like crud compared to the double whammy of Kanon/Code Geass.

[kyok]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

My reaction to Souma was kind of gut-level, so I'm not really sure why I didn't like him. Maybe it was just that I wanted the girl to get the girl, lol. I just got ugly vibes off him for the four or five episodes I watched. He seemed selfish and crude to me, beneath his better qualities. Of course, the horrid episode 8 showed that his female opponent was even worse.

You're right about shounen/shoujo romances in general, I think. But Suzuka, for example, is pretty slow-developing, too. I'm following the manga and the (sometimes enjoyable) frustration continues.

Yeah I can see that. It did seem like Souma approached Himeko and demanded things from her. Alot of their outings was forced as Himeko didn't seem to want to go.
Good point on Suzuka. After watching the anime, I had very little interest in the manga; if the anime pacing is any indication no thanks.
Rant:
Issues I have with Suzuka; named after the female lead wherein she pretty much only has one potential pairing, said lead is way too emo/melodramatic, and the male lead is often portrayed as having 'no balls' and little to no interested in anyone besides the female lead. For a shounen romance.. trying to do shoujo I find the series confused; track and field theme but not a sports anime (no technical analysis I guess), it takes itself pretty seriously as a drama without comedy to break up the monotany (or is poor at it) or even ecchi themes which are often prevalent in shounen series. Basically I don't like any of the characters either.

So you can see my problems with Suzuka, why may I ask are you still following it? I have a friend who's into it (he loves Suzuka type characters / pitiful girls) and keeps hyping it to me and I have no urge whatsoever. I mean i do like Miki and Honoka but they're forced into supporting roles anyways.

[Chiibi]

Originally Posted by DragoonKain3

I have always thought that any attractive looking male are by definition bishies or bishounen. Though this is only in my personal experience, but every girl I know of defines say, the Gundam Wing heroes as bishies, and unless my eyes are really bad they are far from feminine looking. Maybe the true textbook definition of bishies are men who have very feminine characteristics, but where I come from it is understood that bishies refer to (or is slang for) any handsome, attractive teenage boy.

EXACTLY. And as for the Gundam Boys.....they were all prettier than Relena, a GIRL (we think). *dies laughing*

[Kaoru Chujo]

Originally Posted by kyok

...So you can see my problems with Suzuka, why may I ask are you still following it...?

Habit? I guess I care a bit about that stupid boy Yamato, and I find Suzuka herself interesting. I probably care about her more than the text justifies. I keep expecting to understand her better and see why she is as she is. In fact, I may still be watching in part because I keep trying to defend her to other denizens of the manga thread. I don't think she's so much wantonly cruel as emotional and confused inside, but with this disciplined and purposeful exterior, so her inner feelings end up coming out in inappropriate ways. There are definitely people like that. And I also like some of the side characters, in particular a girl called Yui who showed up after the anime ended.

I think I can say there is a bit of technical analysis in the track, but they do seem to veer off it when you want more. And there is more ecchi in the manga than in the anime, of course. But both the anime and the manga seem pretty clumsy compared to shoujo treatments of similar things. However, that clumsiness has its own appeal. And anyway, I like emo. If everyone was sensible and under control, the story would be boring, imo.

[Honey_and_Cleaver]

Thats manga style. In order to draw handsome looking men, they need to be more beautiful and have more manlier physique or depends. Take an example Yoshida from Peace Maker Kurogane. Ichigo from Bleach is starting to look like it and Byakuya is another piece of example.

Ichigo's father or Kyoraku handsome? Most harem animes have a nerdy plain looking main male character like Kyon or Chobbits. I cant say AIR is a harem anime, Kunisaki Yukito died in the end and theres no love scene between him and Kamio Misuzu or any ecchi scenes. Overall it has fantastic story, i love AIR.

[Vulcannis]

Originally Posted by Honey_and_Cleaver

I cant say AIR is a harem anime...

Dude, though it may be a crime not everyone's seen AIR. You should spoiler that (that is, the parts after what I quoted.)

EDIT: And to stay on topic myself, I've not seen KnM and so far I'm not sure what to make of KTS.... Looks like it could be fun at least. And I also liked hearing the internal monologue of Kuu, the episode would have been much less without it.

[Kaoru Chujo]

episode 2

The first thing to get clear here is that Yahagi Sayuri (Kuu) is now a voice goddess. She may be only 20 and have been working for less than a year and a half, but just listen to the full, liquid voice and the subtle color and shading in her delivery. You may not like this kind of drippy style, and that's fine. But I like it, and I haven't heard a version better. There were moments when I thought she was starting to become same -- and then she changed gears. Do I hear the odd hint of Tamura Yukari there? Sayuri-chan is working with Yukarin in Otogijushi Akazukin, and I think may be learning some of her style. Just sugoi.

As for episode 2 itself, I wouldn't have expected this, but it's looking good to me. The story is intriguing. The music is just excellent. I personally love the character design. The fanservice -- sight, sound, and implication, hetero, yuri, and bro-con -- works wonderfully. And the voice acting is generally excellent. Konishi Katsuyuki (Kyoushiro) played Kenta opposite Sayuri-chan in Karen, and I think the slight deadness in his voice works great here. Matsuoka Yuki as Setsuna is appropriately otherworldly. And Kawasumi Ayako plays Kaon.

[cyth]

Spoiler for episode 02:

The only thing I have to resent to this episode is that we were robbed again of finding out Kuu's importance to the story. I've fell in love with this show at episode 01, but 02 just filled in most of the blanks and I can only hope for the best with this one.

I've got to like the story behind the manmade zettai tenshi (ultimate angels?) and their powers. For now, they're showing off "The Kiss" as nothing but a power transfer. I think it's just a fasade though, to show everyone that there's a lot more to it than friction and momentous spark. I believe they're slowly setting up a wonderful illustration of "The Power Of The Kiss" one by one, and I have hopes it will turn out marvelous.

The two zettai tenshi we've met (leaving Talulotte aside) have so far rejected the thought of having an intimate relationship with their two dishes (I guess we could call them that). They give off a vibe of being weapons, still I wonder what Mika-sama actually is, and if she acts like an obedient weapon to someone we haven't been introduced to. While Setsuna actually acts like a weapon, Kaon acts more like a master over Himiko even though she can't do anything without her power.

Kuu should really cut down a bit on writing letters to her prince. I think she did so at least 4 times in this episode. Other than that, I fully agree with Kaoru_Chujo's assessment of Sayuri-chan's work so far. I'm liking her thin, yet rich colour of her wonderful voice. It really creates an image of fuziness and warmth everytime I hear it now.