Gundam 00 Mecha, Weapons, and Technology

[GN0010 Nosferatu]

Originally Posted by SonicSP

I'm not entirely sure what the young people call Super or Real robot categories these days but if I'm not mistaken the definition is that Real robots are suppose to be used in real world type situation,like fighters for a military,no different than any tank or jets and are ultimately human creations but with super robots the robots themselves are sort of supernatural in nature,they can be a powerful ancient being or something.

Of course,there's also the easier definition of real means.......realistic as real can be,for a giant robot of course with super being flashy,overlypowerful and just......super in general.

I'm not sure which one of these are the correct terms as I am no expert on the subject.But these days shows tend to have a bit of mix of both,though 00 falls under Real officially,as far as I know and so are FMA,even if its......superish.

Heh,maybe somebody should coin the term Real Super Robot or Super Real Robot?

Well yeah, the differences are pretty vast. Anything and everything Gundam related is Real Robot. But one trademark of Super Robots, is that the pilot will "yell out" their respective mechs special ability. I have always heard of 00 bashers saying that it's not a true Gundam series because the pilots call out Trans-AM.

One board member here said that they think the Garazzo is a super robot because of the beam sabers in the fingers.

lol wat?

[SonicSP]

In my opinion,the Original GN Drives does have a bit of a mystical divine appeal to it,though only because of the way they're created and just how long they;ve existed and their perpetualness and power [Before Taus that is].I know its as Humanistic as any other stuff out there but it does do very amazing things and are treatd with upmost reverence.

But I guess the relative advantage dissapears when the Taus came into the picture,I guess it shows that no matter how powerful and orginal the Original GN-Drive is,its just a piece of technology,and when you lose that exclusive monoploy on this resource,you lose a big advantage.The same goes for Trans-Am and Twin Drive. [I cant help think about some economics models here,I guess GN-Drives became higher in supply]

I know that the Originals GN-Drives are not magical or divine,at the core their human creations just like any piece of steel and iron but the limitivity of them plus how powerful and difficult they are to make,you cant help but feel a sense of awe around such an object that two decades to make in a hostile enviroument,not to mention the amount of research and effort put in to build such a thing.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by SonicSP

I'm not entirely sure what the young people call Super or Real robot categories these days but if I'm not mistaken the definition is that Real robots are suppose to be used in real world type situation,like fighters for a military,no different than any tank or jets and are ultimately human creations but with super robots the robots themselves are sort of supernatural in nature,they can be a powerful ancient being or something.

Well, the difference is actually quite simple. In the realm of Super Robots, you usually have only a handful of such types in existence at any given time. They are probably from some secret government organization and tasked with saving the world against some unknown being from outer space or an evil Empire of some sort. Usually, its enemies would consist of a singular similar type adversary preceded, sometimes, by a large numbers of what Japanese people call 'zako' (ie. small fries). The 'zako' would have little to no effect on the super robots, but they are just there to waste screentime and to get shot.

In addition, Super Robot shows usually does away with military ranks. Hierarchies are kept simple, and there are very little in ways of a chain of command.

You can easily see this pattern from Mazinkaiser to the more recent Evangelion. Although pilots do not always 'yell out' their attacks, and the robots themselves may or may not have godlike powers. These notions may be a slight misconception.

Real robots on the other hand, are not as unusual for the general populace of a given fictional universe. They are, as had been mentioned, utilized in the form of common military war machines, such as tanks, planes... etc. However, like Super Robots, they may or may not have godlike powers. Moreover, real robots (piloted by important characters) are more prone to damage against 'zakos' than super robots.

So where does Gundam fit in? I don't know, since it is not exactly the most consistent franchise when differentiating super or real robots. G-Gundam was definitely not real robots imo, while other series, like Gundam 00, flirts around with the idea. Or mobile suits can be woefully weak, as portrayed in MS08 team. Anyway, I doubt the producers cared to set a genre boundary around Gundam 00, I think they sat out to make 00, and that was that.

Franchises like Macross may be best at portraying the idea of real robot. Goddess knows just how many times Macross protagonist had been shot down, ejected, only to return fighting in replacement machines.

- Tak

[Rising Dragon]

Uh, Tak? I think in the beginning of your post, you mean to say Super Robots, and not Real Robots.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Uh, Tak? I think in the beginning of your post, you mean to say Super Robots, and not Real Robots.

Say what? *whistles*

- Tak

[GN0010 Nosferatu]

Well, I suppose if you look at the facts, Gundam 00 is pretty much a Real Robot series.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by GN0010 Nosferatu

Well, I suppose if you look at the facts, Gundam 00 is pretty much a Real Robot series.

Well, I don't really care, it was a fun ride. It may not be my favorite Gundam, but it was entertaining.

- Tak

[GN0010 Nosferatu]

Well, I'm just saying, I don't really like Super Robot shows. If you look at what Real Robot is supposed to be, Gundam 00 pretty much fits the bill.

The Gundams and other MS are used as military weapons, a lot of emphasis on military ranks, not to mention that war is somewhat of the backbone of 00's plot.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by GN0010 Nosferatu

Gundam 00 pretty much fits the bill.

The Gundams and other MS are used as military weapons, a lot of emphasis on military ranks, not to mention that war is somewhat of the backbone of 00's plot.

I don't recall calling 00 a Super Robots show.

But you cannot deny that it did flirt around with it.

- Tak

[GN0010 Nosferatu]

Originally Posted by Tak

I don't recall calling 00 a Super Robots show.

But you cannot deny that it did flirt around with it.

- Tak

I know that ya damn fool!

I was just throwing it out there. Of course they flirted with the idea, even before Trans-Am the Gundams were pretty damn unstoppable, and post Trans-AM *cough 00 Raiser* it only got even more super robotish.

But, those are just small doses. Gundam isn't the only mech series that flirts with the idea though. Evangelion and Line Barrels of Iron kinda do it too.

[Rising Dragon]

No one really knows what to classify Evangelion is, other than Mind Screw On All Fronts.

As for the 00 Raiser, well, at least we were given warning. They did say that the 00 Raiser had abilities that'd defy all common sense.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by GN0010 Nosferatu

Evangelion and Line Barrels of Iron kinda do it too.

Thats because well...


They ARE Super Robot shows

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Mind Screw On All Fronts.

To be fair, the producers really made an effort to make the new movies more coherent than Eva's previous incarnations. Unfortunately, only 2 are out, thus there remains that possibility for us to be trolled.

- Tak

[GN0010 Nosferatu]

Originally Posted by Tak

Thats because well...


They ARE Super Robot shows

- Tak

They don't look like it to me.

[LoweGear]

IMHO, there really is no "hard" distinction between reals and supers, especially since while Gundam did set the precedent for the portrayal of the giant robot as a military weapon, much of the series still messed around with alot of super robot conventions -The original MSG had monsters of the week in the form of Zeon's Mobile Armors, and the G-Armor is essentially its version of a Gattai mecha, and let's not forget Newtype powers. And at times, mecha considered as "Real" have superpowers beyond some "Super" mecha - I would not expect Might Gaine, a "Super", to defeat the black-hole wielding Granzon, considered a "Real" (even in the SRW verse, there are "Super" Robots weaker than "Reals"). Not even stylistic differences can distinguish the two much - Evangelion did not have the hot-blooded yelling of traditional "Supers", and its technology is essentially mecha porn, but it's still considered a "Super" more or less.

So in the end, it's the portrayal of the mecha in the end that determines whether one is a "Super" or "Real", but even then I'd be hard pressed to try and classify any one show into either of the categories exclusively.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by GN0010 Nosferatu

They don't look like it to me.

Why not?

Well ok, lets take both shows on.

Secret installation, tasked to save the world, robots with special deity-like powers that defy standard conventions, only a handful ever exists, very rare amongst the populace, simple hierarchy, not a real military organization...

Well, pretty much fits all the criteria to be a super robot show.

Originally Posted by LoweGear

IMHO, there really is no "hard" distinction between reals and supers, especially since while Gundam did set the precedent for the portrayal of the giant robot as a military weapon, much of the series still messed around with alot of super robot conventions -The original MSG had monsters of the week in the form of Zeon's Mobile Armors, and the G-Armor is essentially its version of a Gattai mecha, and let's not forget Newtype powers.

In retrospect, I suppose that is why I never liked the first UC much. Sure, it started a legend, but that doesn't mean I must be suckered into it. Macross rekindled my interest for Gundam, or at least in time for Gundam Zeta.

- Tak

[GN0010 Nosferatu]

Well...I'm just gonna go in my corner and whisper to myself that 00 is a real robot show.



>_>

[Patriot's Blade]

Yoshiyuki Tomino-sensei VS Super Robots!? blame Bandai for that!

btw, did everyone forget the Mizushima fan jokes, that the 00 Raiser IS somehow a super robot stuck in a real robot world, hence there is no GUNDAM in its name?

i don't know the Nu/Hi-Nu Gundam, the Mobile Fighter Gundam units, the Turn A Gundam & Turn X, & the Phoenix Gundam is in those standards

[GN0010 Nosferatu]

Personally, some bashers should give the 00 Raiser and Trans-Am shit.

After all, the Zeta Gundam was able to summon the fucking dead, and the Nu Gundam was able to push back a gigantic asteroid base with the pilots mind.

[sx3]

Originally Posted by GN0010 Nosferatu

Personally, some bashers should give the 00 Raiser and Trans-Am shit.

After all, the Zeta Gundam was able to summon the fucking dead, and the Nu Gundam was able to push back a gigantic asteroid base with the pilots mind.

The thing with that is that they were just 1 time things, the Zeta only "summonded" the dead once and created a giant beam saber once in the heat of the battle. Same thing with Nu gundam. The only reason id consider the 00 Raiser a super robot is that it can trans-am when it desires and creates a massive anything. i just call it a super robot because its just that easy, the Zeta can't do it when it wants. Kamille has to be really pushed to the edge and there were sensors in the Zeta too to detect that etc.

I understand how you would feel the other gundams to be super robots as well and thats fine. I personally think that the UC was just better at downplaying the super robot-esque feeling so the viewers dont complain haha

[GN0010 Nosferatu]

True, the abilities portrayed by the Nu and Zeta were only used once, and happened quickly. But it's still there IMO. If ask me, even though they were used once, they were still incredible feats.

All the 00 Raiser did was teleport (I know what it's really called, I'm just speeding it up here), and expand people's minds temporarily. Sure it also caused Setsuna to evolve, but that's because he was at the center of the TDS.