2012-07-17, 22:32 | Link #81 | |
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2012-07-18, 01:25 | Link #83 | |
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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I'll get back to the second below. For the third, if the episode has already aired, this is permitted behind properly-labelled spoiler tags (but I question if it's really needed in an anime thread; this sort of detailed novel comparison is better-suited for the novel thread). If the episode has not aired, it is forbidden in anime threads (can be discussed in the novel thread). Now, chronology. I'm not honestly going to claim that this situation is so clear-cut. I have been in a situation before (Yosuga no Sora, to be precise) where the odd structure of the show has caused so much confusion that I thought it essential to make this sort of structural clarification as prominent as possible. But this was an unusual "threaded-omnibus" style story and was speculation (that became increasingly clear) based on hints in the episodes and in the Blu-Ray listings, not really invoking anything from the source material. In the case of the specific show you're talking about, I think the issue is that all the novel titles and the specific volumes are a bit like "more information than you require". Forgive me for not knowing, but how has the organization of the anime episodes been revealed? Is it necessary to give the titles and volumes for every episode just to explain the order? Is understanding the chronology really essential to enjoying the show; would it be okay if an anime viewer just takes it as it comes and pieces it together later? Is the order of the episodes intended to be part of the mystery to anime-only viewers? Why is it so important that people understand this before continuing to watch the show? It's clear to me (based on reports) that some people do not want to see the novel structure brought up in the anime thread, because it alludes to future content not shown and (some feel) it's not on-topic. Perhaps more information can make this clearer, though...
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2012-07-18, 03:00 | Link #84 |
Franco's Phalanx is next!
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Little England, Europe and Asia
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Thanks for clarifying It seems overly complicated, but after having a look at the Fate/ subforum... well, makes sense
Now specifically for Jinrui, I haven't read the novels myself, but because the official english translation has a lot of issues, especially with the last episode, as well as with Joshiraku and quite probably Ebiten, I think that some clarifications are necessary, whether they come from novel or japanese language/culture knowledge... technically these are perceived and thoughtlessly reported as a spoiler, since they pertain information not presented to the english-only-speaking fans, but have been part of the anime. This I found particulalry helpful with Joshiraku, when a poster explained some wordplays, which were overlocalized. Vice versa, in Jinrui when I had to explain a couple of times some cultural/language issues that were ignored (tori kanji and manga vs doujinshi) As for the episode titles of Jinrui, despite the rules here which I accept, still I see the complain quite paranoid... by the same reasoning a show's title itself spoils events not yet presented since it alludes to the process that brought mankind in the circumstances presented thus far. |
2012-07-18, 09:33 | Link #85 | ||
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Age: 41
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2012-07-18, 15:57 | Link #88 | ||
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I would say that we are trying to transition people away from using the old spoiler tag for that reason, and we may in fact remove the old spoiler tag entirely at some point. If you have suggestions about how to improve the dynamic tags, we'd appreciate it in the discussion thread. So all that to say... I'm not saying that we're going to aggressively go after people for using the wrong kind of tag at the moment, but that is the direction we're heading, so I'd prefer if we can improve the tag so that you'll want to use it. I at least think it's a lot nicer if the tags themselves indicate the kind of content within. Otherwise, the Forum Rules actually specify that NSFW images have to be links and not inline (again, to prevent it from being downloaded automatically). I think this hasn't been very consistently enforced, but again, I think we're trying to move towards making things clearer and more consistent.
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2012-07-19, 15:39 | Link #89 |
Senior Member
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Just a small question for the moderators.
In the past, I'd sometimes use spoiler space just to save space. This is frequently done for lengthier Visitor Messages that I post on various member's walls, for example. Is it still acceptable to use spoiler tags for this purpose, or is it no longer acceptable to use it this way? (And if it's not acceptable, what's the suggested alternative?)
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2012-07-20, 10:19 | Link #93 |
Loveable Jerk
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Here's an idea, how about we accept that if you go onto a discussion forum about a show you're watching people are going to discuss that show including background material relating to it's plot and characters?
Because frankly if stuff is kept in spoiler tags the ONLY way to be spoiled is to specifically open and look at them. Spoiler tags should make it acceptable to post anything, in any thread, anytime end of debate (assuming it's not rampantly off topic). It's a clear cut rule that's easy to remember and allows hedging of "if in doubt tag it". The policy in place has often muddy guidelines about what is and isn't acceptable and is often basically blind guessing, or just at the whim of a given mod that sees it. One might not care unless someone outright says in plain text something like "oh yeah the main character dies in episode X" in the slightest, while another tosses out bans for the most banal of infractions. This uncertainty is killing conversation, keeping the informed from educating the curious, and generally making what should be fun conversations with other fans a stressful juggling acts as you debate what is and isn't a spoiler, and if you can post it even IF you take precautions and preface it as such. This is seriously the only forum I've EVER seen where posting background information IN spoiler tags, with a big label in front of it proclaiming it such in response to a DIRECT QUESTION by a curious viewer is a possibly ban-able offense, and that's beyond ridiculous.
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2012-07-21, 00:09 | Link #94 | |
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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So, the decision was made to constrain the topic: anything that hasn't been shown yet in the anime is off-topic. That is the heart of the spoiler policy. And so yes, the whole point was to limit conversation in the anime threads, and instead move it to the threads for the source material, where the source material can be discussed freely and generally without requiring spoiler tags. We still do allow comparisons to already-aired material, and that covers our bases in 95%+ of the circumstances. I see from your post history that you're a Muv-Luv fan, and I assumed as much by the phrasing of your post. You have to remember that Total Eclipse is a very unique situation that doesn't impact the vast majority of the other shows. Changing an entire forum's spoiler policy just to accommodate a few exceptions is not good practice because, again, you have to be wary of the unintended consequences (and in this case, we already know what those will be, because that's where we came from). In this case, you also have to understand that there are some anime viewers who may not want to be spoiled on the games, and whose viewing experience does not depend on being "informed". Our normal spoiler rules would suggest that this non-anime material is off-topic for the anime thread. The question then comes: so where can these game background spoilers go? I tried to create a thread for that (which you have been posting in), but I guess you are saying that it's still not good enough, and I've heard a few others insinuate the same. So what other thread do we need that will meet the need? Or, perhaps it's better to start with: exactly what is the need, and how can we fill it while staying within the constraints of our global policy? I'm willing to listen to good ideas. Some have said that the series just needs a sub-forum, but even if that were to happen, I don't see how that solves it, because the episode threads would still have the same rules as we have now. So, if you could create a thread where the needed discussion could occur, what would it be? (Again, keep in mind that the spoiler policy will not change at this time.)
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2012-07-21, 02:15 | Link #95 |
Princess or Plunderer?
Join Date: May 2009
Location: the Philippines
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^ Honestly, it's time to give the Muv-Luv franchise its well-deserved subforum.
It, along with SAO (which already has a subforum), suffered the most spoilers-wise, and in Muv-Luv's case, it would be a case wherein the necessity of having a subforum overrides the requirements needed (i.e. the discussion would still go chaotic unless the three threads are segregated into its specific threads and these threads are gathered into a subforum). As for the problem of controlling spoilers, it will still be in the hands of the poster — or the fanbase sometimes. We can never tell how much management and how much leniency (the Goldilocks zone of moderation) is needed to keep spoilers from spoiling others, and forcing them to go through one side of the spectrum abruptly is not really a sure way avoid spoilers. You can ban all those people who will post the smallest spoiler, but there will still be spoilers running loose.
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2012-07-21, 10:13 | Link #96 |
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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...But that doesn't really solve the problem. Even in the sub-forum, the same rules regarding spoilers would apply. So, if people are getting upset that the Spoiler Policy is "killing conversation, keeping the informed from educating the curious, and generally making what should be fun conversations with other fans a stressful juggling acts as you debate what is and isn't a spoiler"... how does that change with a sub-forum? I can't see how it does. So there has to be another solution.
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2012-07-21, 19:25 | Link #97 | ||
Last Engage
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Florida
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2012-09-23, 00:06 | Link #98 | |
Giga Drill Breaker
Join Date: Jan 2009
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i guess since its allowed to still post in this thread then i will say your perplexing or making the spoiler issue so complex it could have been more easy to just say on the rules - all spoilers should be put in spoiler tags - if you hate spoilers then do not read anything inside the spoiler tags thats all but ye every forum has its own rules and own level (weak/strong/gauge) of enforcing their rules so i guess time to find or go back to other forums Last edited by j0x; 2012-09-23 at 00:28. Reason: suggestions |
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2012-09-23, 01:19 | Link #99 | |
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