Gundam Seed/Seed Destiny General Discussion Thread

[zeroexia]

Originally Posted by I Fail at Life

But Destiny is a different beast. And from what they'd shown, they should should not even try, and just quit.

CE Movie: Hate to say it but if it does not involve Kira and the gang, there is No Movie. The Antagonist or Main Villian could be Normal/Natural pilots, but don't expect kira and the gang, to be replaced as MC"s or at all. And why would they create a New Main Cast, just for a movie, which would also be CE's final continuation, in which they would get at minimum little Development. And also add in the fact, might not even like the New character's they come up with, to high of a risk, at a point where it's really late in the game.

What they should do: Redeem the character's, and Give us Original Animation. Have the Characters become the Embodiment, of what they were supposed to be. And Finally! Show and give us (Fans and Audience, in this movie) what CE is trully capable of.

I think I done gone to the Dark Side.

Maybe I didn't explain it well enough? I meant that ideally a CE movie would center around Kira and the gang but somehow either end Kira's legacy or put an end to their chapter of the CE story, similarly to Char's Counterattack ending Amuro and Char's legacy.


Then after or before the CE movie, they would have another anime series with new characters and story. Stargazer did a good job of this, showing how ravaged the Earth was and how the people in the Earth military were like. I really liked Stargazer, it proved even further to me the potential in CE.

Of course Kira and the gang could make cameos showing off why they're the best.


And any future CE works must explain the SEED factor theory. Actually explore what SEED is. And how it will affect humanity. I mean....IT'S CALLED GUNDAM SEED and they barely touch upon it. And of course there's that space whale floating around that never got explained.

[monster]

Originally Posted by zeroexia

Where was the development of Kira like in SEED where he had to confront the fact that his existence was a product of the suffering of other. Destiny should have had that.

Kira's development is there. It's just not as pronounced as it was in SEED due to the story not being about Kira as it was in SEED. It basically culminates with his talk with Durandal and Shinn at the end where he decides to take a more active role in trying to protect the peace rather than going back to just live it.

[zeroexia]

Originally Posted by Znozzy

A new Seed related show could be awesome, maybe about the Junk Guild? they could open it up with Lowe rescuing Kira, for example. And focus on the exciting adventures of the Junk Guild with some cameos like Shiho and motherfucking Yzak Joule, etc!

I think Astray would be best as OVAs. Gundam OVAs are much better at animating manga and novel. And of course, the animation would be better. I'm sure everybody would love to see Lowe's Red Frame's awesome sword play.

[zeroexia]

Originally Posted by monster

Kira's development is there. It's just not as pronounced as it was in SEED due to the story not being about Kira as it was in SEED. It basically culminates with his talk with Durandal and Shinn at the end where he decides to take a more active role in trying to protect the peace rather than going back to just live it.

That's the problem. It's not as pronounced because Kira isn't the intended main. Either Shinn or Athrun is, depending on your view but the huge focus on Kira in the second half with STRIKE FREEDOM becoming the Main Gundam in the opening requires that it be.

The fact that Kira and Archangel saves the world means they become the heroes, right? The heroes need clearer character development.

A couple scenes of Kira explaining or exploring his change from being a recluse hermit to actively protecting the world would have enhanced the story.

I myself understood Kira's development but the problem is that the vast majority don't. Therefore they then hate on Kira and the rest of the cast, calling him Kira "Jesus" Yamato and so on.

That's what should be fixed. Everybody should be able to see Kira's character development not just a few.

[Znozzy]

Originally Posted by zeroexia

That's the problem. It's not as pronounced because Kira isn't the intended main. Either Shinn or Athrun is, depending on your view but the huge focus on Kira in the second half with STRIKE FREEDOM becoming the Main Gundam in the opening requires that it be.

The fact that Kira and Archangel saves the world means they become the heroes, right? The heroes need clearer character development.

A couple scenes of Kira explaining or exploring his change from being a recluse hermit to actively protecting the world would have enhanced the story.

I myself understood Kira's development but the problem is that the vast majority don't. Therefore they then hate on Kira and the rest of the cast, calling him Kira "Jesus" Yamato and so on.

That's what should be fixed. Everybody should be able to see Kira's character development not just a few.

You understood Kira's character development in Destniy? if you did you have to be one of the few who actually did, care to elaborate on how Destiny developed his character?

Originally Posted by zeroexia

I think Astray would be best as OVAs. Gundam OVAs are much better at animating manga and novel. And of course, the animation would be better. I'm sure everybody would love to see Lowe's Red Frame's awesome sword play.

Agreed, Junk guild adventures, fuck yeah.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Znozzy

If you've seen the anime, you'd know its from when Kira cuts down the saviour after Athrun makes a really good argument and Kira simply replies with "But right now Cagalli is crying, etc etc" instead of bringing up a good counter-argument, then he cuts Athrun down, that makes the line hated because the reasoning behind it is retarded

What good argument did Athrun make? He's basically telling Kira to go away while his friends are killing Orb soldiers.

and the " Stop fighting " is just pretty hilarious in a bad way aswell, of course people bring it up when the first of the two doesnt make any sense at all

I don't think Kira ever said that in Destiny.

Originally Posted by zeroexia

And any future CE works must explain the SEED factor theory. Actually explore what SEED is. And how it will affect humanity. I mean....IT'S CALLED GUNDAM SEED and they barely touch upon it. And of course there's that space whale floating around that never got explained.

This has got to be my biggest wish for a CE show. (Well, other than just having a CE show.)

Originally Posted by zeroexia

the huge focus on Kira in the second half with STRIKE FREEDOM becoming the Main Gundam in the opening requires that it be.

Actually, the huge focus is not on Kira. It's on Shinn, Rey, Durandal, and Athrun at varying degrees.

Note, by focus, I'm talking about the story/plot. Where Kira shines is on the battlefield.

[Znozzy]

Originally Posted by monster

What good argument did Athrun make? He's basically telling Kira to go away while his friends are killing Orb Soldiers

K: " Athrun! "
A: " The EAF are the aggressors! "
A: " So are you all telling Minerva to simply sink?! "
K: " Why are you? "
A: " That's why i told you to go back! "
A: " Why are you here when you say you don't want to fight?! "
C; " Stoooop ;_______; "
K: " Cagalli! "
A: " Kira! "
K: " I understand... i understand what you're saying too, but! "
K: " But Cagalli is crying right now! "
K: "She's crying right now because she ca't stand having it end up like this! "
K: " Why can't you understand that?! "
K: " Labeling this war, these sacrifices, as unavoidable, Blaming everything on ORB and Cagalli, is that how you justify your actions right before you shoot at what she's trying to protect? " ***
A: " Kira.. "
K: " Then i'll strke you down! "

and we all know what happened after that, Bye bye finest mecha of Destiny ;;

*** See now, here is where i have a problem, he didn't label it, Athrun joined Zaft to try and stop the war after the EAF threw nukes out as a first strike due to shady evidence.

Kira saying Athrun is Labeling things when all Athrun tries to do is disable enemy units and protect the Minerva, while ORB is backing up the EAF with their full military strength due to the fact that Kira kidnapped Cagalli and put Yuna/Joona/Juuna in power not to mention the majority (i'm going to say that, from what was shown in the episode) of the orb forces was backing up Yuna at the moment until the takemikazuchi was rushing into battle

Not to mention the fact that the Minerva was there alone against alot of EAF & ORB forces and later the Arch Angel.

TL;DR Kira was acting like a high and mighty cunt blaming Athrun for things he caused himself and shooting down Athrun when he was trying to protect things he cared for, because Cagalli was crying.

I don't think Kira ever said that in Destiny. This has got to be my biggest wish for a CE show. (Well, other than just having a CE show.) Actually, the huge focus is not on Kira. It's on Shinn, Rey, Durandal, and Athrun at varying degrees.

Note, by focus, I'm talking about the story/plot. Where Kira shines is on the battlefield.

He has said it, not in destniy though, one of the occasions would be when he shows up in freedom the first time and after Genesis was shot the first/or second time, when Zaft soldies are shooting at disabled EF grunts

[zeroexia]

Originally Posted by Znozzy

You understood Kira's character development in Destniy? if you did you have to be one of the few who actually did, care to elaborate on how Destiny developed his character?



Agreed, Junk guild adventures, fuck yeah.

lol, I'm not saying I'm a master of Kira Yamato. I'm just think that Destiny Kira basically went from hiding from the world due to the trauma and suffering he had in SEED to being resolved to protecting the world at the end of DESTINY. That's why he became a member of the military, the very thing he hated the most. He wanted to use the power that he had to help humanity advance instead of running away like he did before.

That's why I got from DESTINY but the script-writing and pacing was so bad that most people can't see that.

And Astray needs to be animated. It would be wrong not to.

[Znozzy]

Originally Posted by zeroexia

lol, I'm not saying I'm a master of Kira Yamato. I'm just think that Destiny Kira basically went from hiding from the world due to the trauma and suffering he had in SEED to being resolved to protecting the world at the end of DESTINY. That's why he became a member of the military, the very thing he hated the most. He wanted to use the power that he had to help humanity advance instead of running away like he did before.

That's why I got from DESTINY but the script-writing and pacing was so bad that most people can't see that.

And Astray needs to be animated. It would be wrong not to.

I disagree, Kira was dedicated since SEED as shown when he impaled Rau at the end and sortied with Freedom, he was enjoying peacetimes until the EAF started throwing nukes around in Destiny & Durandal ordered the black ops team to kill Lacus off. He even said it himself in episode 14 of destiny " i'm fine ", the one who was hiding and hesitating was Lacus, not Kira

[monster]

Originally Posted by Znozzy

K: " Athrun! "
A: " The EAF are the aggressors! "
A: " So are you all telling Minerva to simply sink?! "
K: " Why are you? "
A: " That's why i told you to go back! "
A: " Why are you here when you say you don't want to fight?! "
C; " Stoooop ;_______; "
K: " Cagalli! "
A: " Kira! "
K: " I understand... i understand what you're saying too, but! "
K: " But Cagalli is crying right now! "
K: "She's crying right now because she ca't stand having it end up like this! "
K: " Why can't you understand that?! "
K: " Labeling this war, these sacrifices, as unavoidable, Blaming everything on ORB and Cagalli, is that how you justify your actions right before you shoot at what she's trying to protect? " ***
A: " Kira.. "
K: " Then i'll strke you down! "

and we all know what happened after that, Bye bye finest mecha of Destiny ;;

*** See now, here is where i have a problem, he didn't label it, Athrun joined Zaft to try and stop the war after the EAF threw nukes out as a first strike due to shady evidence.

Kira saying Athrun is Labeling things when all Athrun tries to do is disable enemy units and protect the Minerva,

It doesn't matter what Athrun is trying to do. Orb soldiers are still getting killed. So, yes, by trying to hinder Kira, Athrun is basically telling Kira that he should stop trying to prevent Orb soldiers from being killed. Athrun's actions are practically saying that their deaths are unavoidable.

while ORB is backing up the EAF with their full military strength due to the fact that Kira kidnapped Cagalli and put Yuna/Joona/Juuna in power

That is wrong. Orb already allied itself with the EA. That is why Minerva had to leave Orb in the first place and why Kira decided to take Cagalli away from Orb. She failed to keep Orb neutral and she was about to let herself be tied into marriage with Yuna.

He has said it, not in destniy though,

Okay then.

one of the occasions would be when he shows up in freedom the first time and after Genesis was shot the first/or second time, when Zaft soldies are shooting at disabled EF grunts

Since I don't remember it, I'll wait for the remaster to see when he said it after GENESIS fired, but I don't see anything wrong with the one in Alaska. It makes sense for Kira to say it then.

[zeroexia]

Originally Posted by Znozzy

I disagree, Kira was dedicated since SEED as shown when he impaled Rau at the end and sortied with Freedom, he was enjoying peacetimes until the EAF started throwing nukes around in Destiny & Durandal ordered the black ops team to kill Lacus off. He even said it himself in episode 14 of destiny " i'm fine ", the one who was hiding and hesitating was Lacus, not Kira

It was the attack on Lacus that awakened Kira but initially he didn't want to fight at all. Enter famous " i don't want to fight, don't make me", etc. He was originally just fighting to find the truth and help end the war so he could stop fighting. At the end of Destiny, he decides to be a pro fighter and makes it his job.

He transitioned from reluctant fighter to a willing one.

[Znozzy]

Originally Posted by monster

It doesn't matter what Athrun is trying to do. Orb soldiers are still getting killed. So, yes, by trying to hinder Kira, Athrun is basically telling Kira that he should stop trying to prevent Orb soldiers from being killed.
Athrun's actions are practically saying that their deaths are unavoidable.That is wrong.

Death is always avoidable with Kira on the battlefield, wink wink.

No, Athrun was telling Kira to go back to ORB if he didn't want to fight (which he obviously did at the time) because Athrun was protecting the Minerva with the EAF/ORB as the clear aggressors, Athrun and Kira was trying to do the same thing, protecting people. What Kira flat out ignored was the fact that the Minerva was the defendor, not the aggressor when it came to ORB being involved. Kira let his sister's tears come before his childhood friend & his reasoning, i can udnerstand Kira wanting to protect ORB and have Cagalli talk them out of it, but to shoot down Athrun when he did nothing wrong doesnt make sense.

Orb already allied itself with the EA. That is why Minerva had to leave Orb in the first place and why Kira decided to take Cagalli away from Orb.

I'll have to rewatch that episode, if i recall ORB hadnt signed the treaty yet with the EAF, i know they defended their territory by shooting warning shots at the Minerva.

She failed to keep Orb neutral and she was about to let herself be tied into marriage with Yuna.

Yup, so why would her tears be able to change that?

Okay then. I'll wait for the remaster to see when he said it after GENESIS fired, but I don't see anything wrong with the one in Alaska. It makes sense for Kira to say it then.

Oh, i never said it was wrong, i said it was hilarious in a bad way, but honestly i don't mind it, i just find it funny

Originally Posted by zeroexia

It was the attack on Lacus that awakened Kira but initially he didn't want to fight at all. Enter famous " i don't want to fight, don't make me", etc. He was originally just fighting to find the truth and help end the war so he could stop fighting. At the end of Destiny, he decides to be a pro fighter and make it his job.

Of course noone wants to fight, Kira was more than ready to fight if needed though, as shown in episode 14 of Destiny.

Pro fighter? what? Kira suddenly showing up in a zaft whitecoat doesn't make him a pro fighter, seeing how hes worn all three uniforms by now, if anything he was there to watch over Lacus like he has been since they got engaged(i think? when she gave Kira the ring) in Seed.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Znozzy

No, Athrun was telling Kira to go back to ORB if he didn't want to fight (which he obviously did at the time) because Athrun was protecting the Minerva with the EAF/ORB as the clear aggressors, Athrun and Kira was trying to do the same thing, protecting people. What Kira flat out ignored was the fact that the Minerva was the defendor, not the aggressor when it came to ORB being involved. Kira let his sister's tears come before his childhood friend & his reasoning, i can udnerstand Kira wanting to protect ORB and have Cagalli talk them out of it, but to shoot down Athrun when he did nothing wrong doesnt make sense.

Actually, Kira understands Minerva's situation. That's why he saved the Minerva on his second interference. That said, due to Cagalli, Kira obviously would have an Orb bias.

The thing about Athrun is that he's preventing Kira from what he's trying to do. Kira wasn't about to let Athrun detain him for the rest of the battle. (Unfortunately, Athrun detained Kira long enough that Shinn was free to destroy the Takemikazuchi.)

I'll have to rewatch that episode, if i recall ORB hadnt signed the treaty yet with the EAF, i know they defended their territory by shooting warning shots at the Minerva.

Why do you think they needed to defend their territory against the Minerva in the first place when the Minerva was already allowed inside Orb? It's because they've allied themselves with the EA and the EA had just officially declared war with the PLANTs.

Yup, so why would her tears be able to change that?

Who says they would?

[zeroexia]

Originally Posted by Znozzy

Pro fighter? what? Kira suddenly showing up in a zaft whitecoat doesn't make him a pro fighter, seeing how hes worn all three uniforms by now, if anything he was there to watch over Lacus like he has been since they got engaged(i think? when she gave Kira the ring) in Seed.

Yes it does. He's now part of ZAFT. Actual military, high ranking at that. Before he was always an outsider now he's actually a soldier. An official soldier.

[Aquaman OS]

The whole "Cagalli was crying thing" boils down to Cagalli not wanting the Orb fleet to get destroyed, and Kira was going to do just that. He didn't care if Zaft had the moral high ground and EA struck first and Orb politics dictated that they help EA. He was stopping the Orb soliders from dying. Minerva getting out safely was acceptable if possible, but he wasn't going to allow them to destroy Orb either, even if they technically didn't do anything wrong.

Hence why Athrun basically telling them to leave and let Shinn slaughter the Orb fleet pissed him off. Kira basically said Athrun was either with them or his new friends in Zaft, and if he was Zaft then Kira was taking him down. Kira totally destroying Savior was just his way of displaying he did not approve Athrun being with Zaft.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Aquaman OS

Kira totally destroying Savior was just his way of displaying he did not approve Athrun being with Zaft.

It's not really about Athrun being with ZAFT.

But the fact is simple, although sometimes people can make it seem more complicated than it actually is:

1. It's a battlefield.
2. Kira and Athrun had conflicting goals in that battlefield.
3. Kira removed Athrun from the battlefield.

And you know what? I actually like that in contrast to what Athrun's sometimes been doing in Destiny. Just look at how Athrun's been handling Sting and compare that with how Kira handled Sting.

[PzIVf3]

Originally Posted by Znozzy

The whole reason Shinn beat Kira in that battle was because Kira was occupied with protecting the Archangel and couldn't fully focus on their battle, as shown in the actual battle away with Shinn blocking his path screaming " Don't run away "

Honestly if they redid the battle and had Shinn defeat Kira without him being distracted and Kira using Freedom's arsenal to the fullest we'd have a shitstorm on every Seed related thread on every forum until the end of time. i hope to god they don't redo that battle. lol

There is no need to defend this. Kira has skill but doesn't know how to use intelligently.

[monster]

Originally Posted by PzIVf3

There is no need to defend this. Kira has skill but doesn't know how to use intelligently.

What's the image about?

[Kirayuki]

Originally Posted by PzIVf3

There is no need to defend this. Kira has skill but doesn't know how to use intelligently.

To be honest, Shinn isn't any different by the time he got Destiny.

[PzIVf3]

Originally Posted by Kirayuki

To be honest, Shinn isn't any different by the time he got Destiny.

Im sorry that battle has lots of Stock footage.