Character Discussion - Makishima Shougo

[Qilin]

Originally Posted by Roger Rambo

But the only way we've seen him try to express *humanity* is through the actions of serial killers. I really think people are putting too much emphasis in the antagonism that Makishima has to the Sybil system, and ignoring the level of antagonism he probably has with organized society and civilization in general. Cause the ideal of "wanton murder for artistic purposes" is incompatible with almost every society on earth.

Do you really think Makishima would sit next to Rina and respect her ideals about wanting to revert society to a liberal democracy?

Hey, I'm not putting his character on a pedestal here. You're kinda putting words into my mouth.

He's a murderer, a conman, and a potential psychopath, sure. No problem. All I'm saying is that he's an artist on top of all that, and that's what makes his character so interesting. Perhaps you're responding to the wrong person?

[Roger Rambo]

Originally Posted by Qilin

Hey, I'm not putting his character on a pedestal here. You're kinda putting words into my mouth.

He's a murderer, a conman, and a potential psychopath, sure. No problem. All I'm saying is that he's an artist on top of all that, and that's what makes his character so interesting. Perhaps you're responding to the wrong person?

I wasn't really responding to the *Makishima as an artist* thing, which is absolutely correct. He certainly has a very artistic flare to everything he does, and he has VERY high performance standards.


I was more commenting on whether or not the kind of human traits that Makishima seems to idealize the most are unique victims to the oppression of the Sybil system. Because if you ultimately idealize total free expression of will and desire, any kind of organize society is going to come off as too oppressive to be acceptable.

[Qilin]

Originally Posted by Roger Rambo

I wasn't really responding to the *Makishima as an artist* thing, which is absolutely correct. He certainly has a very artistic flare to everything he does, and he has VERY high performance standards.

I was more commenting on whether or not the kind of human traits that Makishima seems to idealize the most are unique victims to the oppression of the Sybil system. Because if you ultimately idealize total free expression of will and desire, any kind of organize society is going to come off as too oppressive to be acceptable.

You chose the worng post to quote then. I'm not framing Shougo as an anti-hero here. To give you the gist of it, he's an individual who sees himself as an existence outside the system. If you combine that with his huge ego, you basically have a megalomaniac who believes himself to be in a position to judge everyone else. I don't think he's doing these things for anyone's benefit but his own.

[Vicious108]

Originally Posted by Roger Rambo

Nobodies forcing you to read my comments or respond to them if you feel they're getting repetitive.

Fair enough, but the thing is, I really don't think I'm the only one who feels that way. I didn't know it when I discussed his character with you in the episode 13 thread and in this one because I've only just gotten into P-P, but I've read some of the previous episodes' threads since then, and it turns I'm far from the first person to express disinterest in your narrow-minded manner of looking at Makishima's character and in your attempts to intellectually diminish any discussion on him that goes beyond "he's a vile and disgusting murderer". Here's a couple of examples from other responses you received before I came along:

Originally Posted by Triple_R

It's fine to hate Makishima just as it's fine to hate a certain alien in Madoka Magica. But to understand such characters, you can't allow such hate to cloud your assessment of them. In their minds, what they're doing is right, and that's key to understanding these characters, imo.

Originally Posted by Qilin

I'm not defending his actions. I just want to prevent him from being boxed into a narrow-minded interpretation of his character. Let's judge him as a character rather than as a person, shall we?

(…)

I was under the impression that were discussing his motives rather than the moral reprehensibility of his actions. All I want to do here is to discuss a character's actions without bringing moral biases into the picture.

(…)

Again, the objective here is to analyze the character. Understanding the character's perspective is a necessity for that, and propagating generalizations borne from moral bias is counterproductive to that.

Now, fast forward to a month later, and you're still doing it. Someone else attempts to formulate an in-depth analysis of Makishima's character by looking at things from his perspective, and what happens? You fail to realize they're not defending him as a person but rather attempting to understand him as a character, so, in a knee-jerk moral crusade against someone who isn't even real, you attempt to rebuke said analyses based almost entirely on your personal moral biases, which are completely irrelevant to our aim of simply understanding the inner workings of the character's intricate mind and unique worldview.

So yes, it's become repetitive, to say the least. Of course, as you said, the discussion is free, but when more than one person has expressed disinterest in your responses to their assessment of Makishima's character, maybe it wouldn't hurt to rethink the way you go about them?

Or not, it's completely up to you, of course. Either way, I have now informed you of how I feel about your "insight" on Makishima's character, so just like I can simply ignore you whenever you decide to share it, you can in turn not expect a reply from me the next time I say anything about him and you feel the need to jump in and dumb it down with your "he's just a murderer, don't you dare try and see anything beyond that" schtick.

Originally Posted by Qilin

He's an individual who sees himself as an existence outside the system. If you combine that with his huge ego, you basically have a megalomaniac who believes himself to be in a position to judge everyone else.

Indeed. I loved the solemn manner in which he raised his head and closed his eyes just before slitting Yuki's throat, as if he were passing down divine judgment. Antagonists don't get much better than this.

[Dark Wing]

Yes truly the Moriarty of the Psycho-Pass universe...Having seen the most recent episode I now wonder if any of his previous crimes are indeed connected in some way.

- Stealing those famous pro-anarchist avatars

- Taking these different (some notably rich) psychopaths under his wing

- Hiring random street thugs to test his inventions then disposing of them

It's all screams Professor James Moriarty...

[Archon_Wing]

As of episode 15:

Aside from his style and his fairly amazing gambit in episode 13, I must say that besides that typical villain smug that Makishima wasn't that interesting. If he's clearly as amoral as he seems in which he treats society as his plaything, then there's just nothing for him to do but wear the villain cap.

In a vaccum.

As the show itself presents though, it could be regarded as which is the lesser of the two evils- Sibyl, or Makishima's anarchy. Clearly both sides have the positive arguments about each other. Sibyl has maintained security, and Makishima wants minds to be free.

It is true that both can be considered evil because they actively enforce their will on others, but when both sides are in conflict, it'll be interesting to see what people truly want when forced to make a choice.