2006-07-18, 17:35
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Link #21 | |
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back in black
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Turkey
Age: 41
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Quote:
also clans with bloodline limit takes important part in konoha ,never heard of any other uzumaki..(some stupid will say they were awesome clan but kyubi killed them all and last one uzumaki naruto is the perfect punishement for kyubi lol ) |
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2006-07-18, 20:26
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Link #23 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
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I think some of you guys are right about the fact that we havent seen there battle skills. But trust me on this if yondaime can handle the 9 tails then humans are nothing to him. Some people are actually saying that he was being helped by others in the village. I say what proves you right and how effective were they. I mean sure the village could have had there entire ninja force fight against 9 tails but could they actually do anything. Another thing that bothers me is where the hell as Surotobi when Yondaime was kicking 9 tails a**. I mean he was just as capable of fighting 9 tails if he was around. Yes i know Surotobi was retired but he wasnt retired from protecting and putting your life on the line for the village. I really want to know what the hell really happend between 9 tails and Yondaime other then what we hear happens (the sealings).
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2006-07-18, 20:41
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Link #24 | |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Ok.... Think about it Yondaime parents were never shown and we havent seen anyone with the slightest resemblence to Yondaime other then naruto. Which has me believe that Yondaime is actually not originally from konoho but from another hidden village and clan altogether. I think Yondaime was probably raised an orphan in Konoho (just like naruto) and happend to become part of konoho just as much anyone else there. Dont say its not possible because my theory isnt off at all, it makes logical sense if you look at the details so far presented in the manga. Now the possibilities of a BloodLine Limit dont seem so farfetched as they did before. I am hoping and it would be so cool if Yondaime and Naruto's bloodline is really a "secret" bloodline limit that was kept secret from the world because of its capabilities. I am planning on opening a thread on the bloodline issue itself soon. iam trying to gather more info to make my reasons seem logical. |
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2006-07-18, 22:02
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Link #25 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2004
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Depends on the starting range and position. Namely, can Itachi use Mangekyo Sharingan to insta-pop Yondaime. If they're close enough, then yes. Game Over, Itachi wins.
If not, then Yondaime had best start running so he won't be an easy target. He should also create Kage Bunshin so Itachi can't use his insta-pop jutsus. (Technically, Itachi CAN, but if he does he might waste it on a Kage Bunshin instead of the real thing.) If he keeps Itachi on the defensive, then Yondaime can eventually wear him down. |
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2006-07-18, 22:09
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Link #26 | |
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Naruto = Painful
Join Date: Jan 2006
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He had an incredible jutsu to defeat him instantly. |
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2006-07-19, 06:52
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Link #27 | |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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And it was stated the whole village went to war versus Kyuubi so this whole 1 vs 1 idea is stupid. There will be no further info on Yondaime vs Kyuubi because it was a dead issue. Demon-sealing has been done more effectively in the past. The guy who sealed Shushaku didnt die from the process. Dont make Yondie some omnipotent being. If the battle was a 1 vs 1 how were there casualties? It was a fullout war and he snuck up and used deathgod. Nothing shiny / flashy. PS. Where does it say Sarutobi wasnt in the war? I dont know if he was or not but Im assuming he was tehre. |
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2006-07-19, 08:39
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Link #28 | |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
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2006-07-19, 08:58
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Link #29 | |
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Time-diver
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Location is all relative.
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hmmmm...
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2006-07-19, 09:46
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Link #30 | |
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back in black
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Turkey
Age: 41
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-kyubi was sealed inside of an ORPHAN boy (which cancels out the idea YF is narutos father) -when sealed there were some candles around naruto (like he was prepared for something) -when yondaime arrived to the battle with the kyubi he made the jutsu directly(according to what we have seen) so is it possible that yondaime was preparing naruto for the sealing?maybe even sarutobi was helping him?why naruto? i dunno but i am sure its not his son... |
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2006-07-19, 10:02
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Link #31 | |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Quote:
However you picture it as heroic or not, the fact was that the WHOLE village went to war versus Kyuubi. I didnt say Kyuubi wont be able to feel when he is getting extracted, but he CANNOT do anything about it. Notice the 2 Hokages were powerless once the soul arm touched them. Oro was only able to use his finger tips and thats because Kusanagi stabbed Sarutobi, greatly weakening him. So what I get from you is: 1.) You think he went alone because it would be unheroic if he didnt. - Evidence Against Theory: There was huge casualties in the village. Clearly people died fighting so its not possible to assume he went 1 vs 1 against Kyuubi. 2.) You know what you are talking about because you read Wikipedia - Evidence Against Theory: Wikipedia is written by an individual not an official unbiased source. Also Wikipedia information is based on the manga. How would it reveal more than the manga that it is based on? It can state theories and make assumptions but none of it is official till the manga confirms it. So, you do not know what you are talking about if you think reading Wikipedia is all there is to it. 3.) Im mistaken if the Sealing is all there is to the battle. - Evidence Againt Theory: I dont think thats all there is to it. Theres casualties so obviously there was a fight. That was a very weak assumption on your part. 4.) Sneaking Up to Kyuubi isnt Heroic, so thats not how it was done. - Evidence Against Theory: Sneaking up to Kyuubi isnt heroic, but its the SMART way. Apparently you missed the chapter where 4Tails of Kyuubi power STILL BEHIND A SEAL wrecked Orochimaru. 9Tails no seal means ... he had enough raw chakra to snuff out the village in 1 fireball. If you hadnt realized, Yondie's tags are a form of sneaking around. Its definitely not a bold approach to the enemy. By his modus operani hes clearly a sneaker (look back to the chapter he was in. He snuck around some rookie Ninjas. What makes you think he grew balls to face Kyuubi eye to eye?). So why is it so hard to believe that he had to sneak up to Kyuubi? 
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2006-07-19, 13:26
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Link #32 |
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Junior Member
Join Date: May 2006
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Wasn't there a thread like this a few months back with like 40 pages? Anyhoo, I don't know why people say Itachi doesn't have a lot of chakra or what not, just becuase he had to rest after using 3 jutsu's which can basically screw anyone over (tsukiyomi x 2, amaterasu); and also using some impressive jutsu's like blowing up a kage bunshin (there goes half of his chakra), I really don't see how he doesn't have a lot of chakra; it's just becuase he said "I have to rest" well, let's see a kagebunshin which exploded, a suiton, 3 MS jutsu's is quite a lot to make him just "have to rest"
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2006-07-19, 13:59
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Link #33 | |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Ok.... first off wiki only gives facts from manga. Anything dealing with rumours or such is filtered out so indeed wiki would make a reliable source as contrary to what you say. If you at least attempt to go on wiki you will learn more then you know (like how naruto has a strong connection with japanese folk lore and legends) so dont put down wiki as a source until you actually see rumours put on as facts on its website, afterall its an encyclopedia. Now I really dont understand why you dont understand my first post, I posted and told you to reread it in another post and yet you still say the samething completely ignoring it. I already said that OF COURSE there were others fighting 9tails Of Course there were casualties BUT my point is HOW effective were the konoho's ninjas against 9 tails. If you watch the first episode over which i did just to be sure, the ninjas actually say we have to keep him busy until the Fourth comes. What took the Fourth so long? He is afterall the Yellow Flash why was he not on the frontline to begin with? These are obviously questions that are yet to be answered in the manga. Now you say there is more to battle then sealing, your obviously right and i never said it is all he used. The death god was an attack he created and knew it best so whatever he did besides it is a mystery to all. All you and I can do is assume and predict what is to come, but to totally shut off any possibilities is being narrow minded. And once again sneaking around with Gamabunta is a bit hard, so watch the fist ep again like i said which gives us the slightest glimpse of what happens (and the only one we have) and you will see that he is atop Gamabunta and not hiding behind 9tails extracting his soul while 9tails is destroying the hell out of konoho. When oro was having his soul extracted we was still capable of moving his fingers like you pointed out but 9tails is a biju you really think he wont be able to move at least some part of his body to weaken yondaime (note that when his tail swings its equivalent to a tsunami and moutanis laying flat). c'mon. Last edited by Yondaime-Legacy; 2006-07-19 at 14:13. |
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2006-07-19, 15:26
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Link #34 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Nice try.
1.) Oro could only move because Kusanagi slammed into Sarutobi, weakening the host of DeathGod and therefore weaking the power of the DeathGod jutsu. Sarutobi was literally down to his last batch of chakra, having fought 3 hokage class opponents, summoned an elite summon and then split his chakra in 3 parts. Yondaime coming fresh to the battlefield had more chakra. He wasnt as weak as Sarutobi was. A perfectly strong host of DeathGod who isnt damaged should be able to yank out Kyuubis soul without any effort since the DeathGod ability depends on the host's current chakra and nothing to do with the opponent. 2.) I didnt say the ninjas were effective versus Kyuubi. I said they fought him. Obviously disproving your "lone hero rides a frog and saves the day" theory. 3.) Its obvious theres things we would NEVER know about the manga. But an avid reader knows as much (if not more) than what is on Wikipedia. Legends and folklores are interesting to draw parallels between, but the fact is whatever the legends state does not directly predict what will happen in the manga. Whatever info is on Wikipedia about Naruto only becomes official once the manga reveals it. So if you read the manga very well and keep up with the details, is there any need for Wikipedia? 4.) Who said he didnt ride Gamabunta to the battlefield and hop off? You speculate he actually took Gama up to Kyuubi. Just your assumption. If tiny ninjas were picked off by Kyuubi its safe to assume a giant frog would have been snacked on immediately. Remember how corrosive Kyuubi Chakra is? Ya ... roasted frog for dinner, judging what has been given to us in the manga. 5.) Im not assuming / predicting what might happen. Im telling you what most likely happened based on evidence from the manga. You are letting fanboyism block out logic. Did it occur to you Yondaime KNEW the only way to stop Kyuubi was the seal? Why then would be bother using a puny rasengan versus it? No one has ever fought a Jink according to the manga. They just sealed it. Could it be that they know thats the only chance at victory and didnt bother trying anything else? PS. I can go on Wikipedia right now and write info on how Kabuto > Yondaime, give reasonably conclusive evidence and leave it there. If no one changes it would you assume it to be fact simply because its on Wikipedia? |
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2006-07-19, 17:07
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Link #35 |
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KING RANSOM
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Location Location!
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Look we know this:
-Yondaime's name isn't on the frog scroll, but he was seen sealing the kyuubi on top of Gamabunta. Obviously this means at the very least Jirya helped him.(not to mention the time it takes to Develop new jutsu, and the war that was going on) -Harishin can move him fast, but how fast/far/manytimes can be done? -Rasengan .. . . . good, but not better than MS. -He was the Hokage, & anko said he could match oro's ability. -Itachi killed all the other sharingan users in one night. -Orochimaru & Sasuke said they can't beat itachi(yet). -We've seen akastuki weak'r than Itachi take out Kage lvl oponents singlehandedly -MS is Uber. Period. With that said we don't know if just cuz yondaime could 'teleport'(if that is in fact what he was doing) he wouldn't get hit when he stoped to attack(assuming sharingan couldn't pick up on it). We DO know that yondaime did, know of sharingan, and he WOULD get destroyed if he looked into Itachi's eyes. that aside, I find it hard to imagine Itachi having some kind of instant victory cuz of MS, but I don't really see any openings for Yondaime to win with. |
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2006-07-19, 17:33
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Link #36 | |
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Konoha's ANBU
Join Date: Dec 2005
Age: 38
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 [Naruto 0 tailed vs Haku] Haku cant hold back on the awesome amount of chakra which is released [Naruto 1 tailed vs Sasuke] One of Naruto's Chakra arms grabs Sasuke and Punches him some yards away... [Naruto 3 tailed on bridge] Just the air near Naruto filled with his chakra simply hurts to Sakura and Sai [Naruto 4 tailed vs Orochimaru] Orochimaru used his snake hands on Naruto's Chakra arm Right now...Orochimaru's Snake hands simply melt grabbing the hand... Imagine that this chakra can still become 5x more deadly... I cant see Yondaime simply sneaking up the Kyuubi and succeeding...he must've done something else. As for the Naruto bloodline theory: It might be a possibility...which would also explain why he was chosen to contain the Kyuubi. Kakashi/Yamato said something about Naruto being amazing to hold back on the power of the Kyuubi which is like a poison.
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2006-07-19, 21:02
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Link #37 | |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Yea instead of being so cocky stubborn about your answers you should try to Understand my answers. Trying to find reasons after reasons of how wrong i am i suggest you should at least try to look at everything with an Open Mind instead of listing every single thing i say as your word to be Fact. All i try to say is that what i say is a possibility and not absolute garbage. Your just over your head with your comments but nevertheless ill reply once again to your "listing" of your "genius" answers. 1- Your talking as if Orochimaru is actually in Kyubis level. Did you forget that Oro couldnt even handle 4 tailed Jinchurki? Seriously, do you think taking out a biju soul is like 1-2-3? It must have taken more effort and like i said before which you LOVE to ignore and consider futile to your point, Yondaime created the Death god jutsu if anything he knows it best. The creater of a jutsu knows the ins and outs of a jutsu and most likely could use it more efficiency and with percision. Of course once summon would be your last time but he must have summoned it before in order to use it so it raises points of how he must have perfected it and passed it on to Surotobi. I think if it was that simple, Yondaime would not summon Gamabunta at all. Gamabunta obviously was summoned for some reason. DID you actually forget how Kusanagi even slammed into surotobi in the first place????? Once AGAIN DONT reply unless you get your facts straigh because I would like to end this debate--The kusanagi was being Moved by Surotobi through orochimaru's figures, (episode 77) now dont tell me its moving with orochimaru's mind or ill just explode with awe of your logic. Now lets see you talk about the death god jutsu as you created it, we dont know how it would deal with the size and power of a biju (lets remember 9 tails could immortal since its a "natural disastor" that comes every so often). However iam sure its not ez as you state it, if even in the slightest way. 2- Actually NO. Please dont try to misinterpret my very understandable statements (and please tell me if iam writing in another language). I never said he fought alone, I said he did not fight in hiding as you had suggested he did. I proved to you he didnt yet you tried to twist my meaning (intentionally or not) and say that i saw him as a lone hero. Now if you want reread my comments and tell me were i mention him as the only guy fighting off 9 tails. 3- Like i said, I dont want to post again to anything you say since you completely forget/ignore whatever I write. Ill say it one more time (and i hope as hell its the last) Wikipedia filters out false info. So guess what rumours are false since they havent occured yet. Look up fourth hokage and it isnt mentioned anywere that he is naruto's possible father. Wiki is a modern day encyclopedia, people input stuff and i could do it too but within hours its filtered out with info that thousands of people find credible. Whatever is kept is fact according to data not rumours or predictions. If you write that kabuto vs. whomever piece trust me it would be gone before your finish writing it. And for the sake of reason, check it out before you bash wiki's info on naruto. The only thing i use wiki for is character info and bios. I dont go there for fanboy crazy rumours as you probably assume i do. 4 - SIGH*.... We are talking about Gamabunta right?, not one of his amphibian sons? Did you forget Gamabunta could possibily be living for centuries. When Naruto was being signed in as gamabunta's next subordinate, he had a huge scroll with name after name. Naruto is put on the very end of the scroll suggesting that the scroll is filled up from ages (some people tried to see the name just before naruto's as Yondaime's real name but it couldnt be read clearly). Gamabunta fought off Shukaku and that too with naruto, what makes you think that he cant put up a fight (notice i say put up not actually beat) against 9 tails WITH Yondaime who is much more powerful then Naruto. Look closely, Gamabunta wasnt there to play around, He was there with Yondaime to fight. Not wussy out. Dont take Gamabunta as weakling he hasnt backed dont from any fight yet and judging by his character its obvious he didnt back down against 9 tails especially with Yondaime on his side. 5- Wait, if the death god was created by Yondaime who the hell used it before him. Your saying seal, but he sealed it into naruto after using death god, so yes manga is there to prove alot of stuff and it sure as hell isnt proving my beliefs wrong as of yet. Until i see an episode showing Yondaime fight 9 tails, my beliefs stand as fact, and your not kishi to prove me wrong. So far, whatever i have stated, have stated with logical reasons that can occur because the manga as of yet can not prove me wrong. Once again i say that you are very NARROW Minded into believing that the battle with 9 tails was the end of it and that my beliefs are not possible bacause "manga hasnt mentioned it" again Iam here to say w.e i want but i wont say anything like "yondaime is the strongest and always will be" because that would be fanboyism and stupidity in all sense. **I wrote more then i wrote on my english essay which is very very sad. Please dont compel me to prove you wrong again and again. I stand with my opinion and if you still want to be stubborn and say "NO HE IS WRONG AGAIN" without reading my post(S) properly then so be it. I hope this will be my last post on this debate. People feel free to comment. I would like to hear more opinions rather then cynics (i wont name any). |
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2006-07-19, 21:19
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Link #38 | |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Quote:
Thanks for the insight. Yes, I actually agree with you. Yondaime and Itachi are 2 difficult cases since we havent really seen both in their full potential. Yondaime has more jutsus up his sleave, but we have seen Itachi do his most powerful jutsus (ameratsu, and the other one) which have to be 2 of his most powerful. If he has anything more powerful then those, then it would surely suprise me. I just hope itachi doesnt end up dead in the hands of weaker sasuke. it would be dissapointing ending to one of the cooler looking villains in naruto. i use to like oro as a villain until he started reminding me of micheal jackson with all that plastic white skin, lol. |
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2006-07-19, 21:29
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Link #39 | |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Yup good points you make. And thx for supporting to possibility of a bloodline limit. I think it would be awesom if the bloodlime limit (if he has one) awakens right after akatsuki takes 9 tails out of him (were naruto would have died if it werent for the bloodline). Probably his bloodline was a threat to society so he chose naruto so he would never have to awaken the bloodline because kyubis chakra would supress it. lol, i know iam going out of hands here. but it would be cool wont it? tell me if it wont fit in the story if this happend to occur (which i doubt it will). |
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2006-07-19, 22:34
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Link #40 | |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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@Yond-noob.
Lemme refresh your mind a little bit. 1.) Read Chapter 135. Gama could barely stand up to Shushaku (considerably weaker than Kyuubi) before Fake Sleep. After Fake Sleep, he was easily outclassed and required Kyuubi Chakra channeled through Naruto before he could even think of hurting Shushaku. Kyuubi is tons stronger than Shushaku. And Yondaime does not have a demon to use and channel power into Gamabunta. Please explain logically how Gama would be able to stand up to Kyuubi, when he cannot stand up to Shushaku. 2.) Read Chapter 124. Page 5. Oro clearly stated that his body could not move once the Death God gripped him. Also observed when the other two hokages were grabbed by the soul arm. What exactly is your point? Kusanagi was floating BEFORE he commanded it with his hand. He did move his hand before the DeathGod started dragging his soul out, so that doesnt count. You are assuming a huger chakra target should be more difficult to pull. Can you find proof in the manga or is it assumption? You be the judge of that. 3.) Show me proof that Yondaime actually fought Kyuubi. He had made plans from Day 1 to seal it. The whole process was skipped but we know he did seal it in the end. Noone praises him for FIGHTING Kyuubi but for SEALING it. You assume he fought it. Where is your proof? 4.) Interestingly enough all your Wikipedia research has not pointed out these obvious points. Whats wrong with this scenario? 5.) FYI Naruto was a bigger help to Gamabunta than Yondaime could ever be. Naruto completely coated Gama in chakra and pumped Gama full of so much chakra that the full Shushaku who was owning him 2 minutes ago was completely beat in 1 move. Quote:
Lets see how many of those your belief will be accurate on. |
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