[Game] Umineko no Naku Koro ni Chiru - Ep. 7 Requiem of the golden witch

[Jan-Poo]

I think I've found an evidence that maybe demonstrates without any doubt that Yasu and Shannon were the same person from the beginning:


"ねぇ、ガラシさん～。何でヤスだけは３人部屋じゃないわけですかー"
"Hey, Garashi. Why only Yasu isn't in a 3 persons room?"


I wonder who is Garashi but since she seems to hold the highest authority I suppose it's Maid-Lucifer. Anyway what matters here is that the three "first generation" servants are all holed up in a single room, and they ask why Yasu is the "only one" who isn't in a 3 persons room.

Shannon was supposed to be be in Yasu's room. So why they don't mention Shannon here?


And then there is this sentence:

"ですよねー！　普通、２ぃ２ぃにしますよねぇ？"

Now depending on how it's translated it can make a difference.

if it is: "normally it's 2 and 2". You could presume that in Rokkenjima usually servants are assigned to double rooms. But in this case the odd one wouldn't be Yasu's and Shannon's room, it would be the 3 persons room they are in! Why rather than complaining about Yasu, they don't complain about their own room? Why they would complain that Yasu is in a double, if it is normal to be in a double?


So I think it makes more sense if it is: "normally you'd make 2 and 2".

So it goes like: "We are four servants, it would make more sense if we were split between two double rooms rather than 3 in 1 and 1 in a single".

But then that means there are only 4 servants and not 5.
If there were 5 servants, the split in "2" and "3" wouldn't be anything strange.
The other way you can do it is by "2", "2", "1". But then rather than complaining about Yasu they should have complained that they holed them up in a single room rather than in two.

[Will Wright]

Originally Posted by TehChron

Epic Cape and Epic Trenchcoat buddy cop story.

One's a formerly incompetent investigator with a chip on his shoulder and a hot, blonde, imaginary waifu.

The other is a past-his-prime ace detective with a newly found heart of gold, out to avenge his lover of questionable gender.

The twist is that they both fell for, and lost, the same person. Do they know? How will it affect their teamwork when it comes to light?

Two loose cannon vigilantes out to get revenge on the blue-haired loli that set them both up with ridiculous feats of deductive reasoning and imaginary sword swinging.

Epic Cape and Epic Trenchcoat, coming to Comikets near you December 2010.

I would seriously pay 500 dollars to see that. With that exact tagline and description.

Don't you mean the whodunnit? Because "Shkannon" is not, and never has been, the "how." Except maybe in Double Shkanon.

I take it as howdunnit, not who.

Although Double Shkanon is one way to get around Dine.

"Shannon did all the work for both of them so Kanon was never a servant he just pretended to be one"

so we could get away with saying that Shannon/Kanon is the culprit.

I have a pretty good who and why, but I am fairly sure that they are wrong even if that's the conclusion I arrived at.

Also I'm 90% sure that the why is going to be "LOVEEEEEEEEEEEE MAKES YOU CRAAAAAAAAAAAAZY" or something like that. But I sure hope it isn't.

[Leafsnail]

For the ep2 Natsuhi's closed room - wouldn't it be quite difficult to smash a stake into your own head like that? I mean, I always assumed it would require a bit of post-mortem smashing to get it in.

[Judoh]

Originally Posted by Leafsnail

For the ep2 Natsuhi's closed room - wouldn't it be quite difficult to smash a stake into your own head like that? I mean, I always assumed it would require a bit of post-mortem smashing to get it in.

I would assume (if the body is not fake as some suggest) that for that to be possible someone would have to smash her head pretty hard, suggesting a blunt weapon of some type or they'd have accidentally hit her against something that would give a big enough gap to stick a stake in her head.

Of course Gohda's big an burly, but he's not a murderer due to Dine. Therefore that automatically makes the person responsible a certain somebody inside the room or a certain milady outside the room. Either way somebody really hates Beatrice's guts I take it. But as Kyrie says "love can turn into a motive to kill". I think that's because, love being a strong emotion, can turn into hate when it's betrayed and it's possible to take an action you'll regret later from that. Of course that's not just with Romantic love, it's the same with friendships and blood relations too.

[Leafsnail]

Yeah, it'd probably be possible with a hammer, or by, say, slamming someone's head against it. However, neither of these things really work if you're doing it to yourself...

I guess George culprit works fine for that.

[erneiz_hyde]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

I think I've found an evidence that maybe demonstrates without any doubt that Yasu and Shannon were the same person from the beginning:


"ねぇ、ガラシさん～。何でヤスだけは３人部屋じゃないわけですかー"
"Hey, Garashi. Why only Yasu isn't in a 3 persons room?"


I wonder who is Garashi but since she seems to hold the highest authority I suppose it's Maid-Lucifer. Anyway what matters here is that the three "first generation" servants are all holed up in a single room, and they ask why Yasu is the "only one" who isn't in a 3 persons room.

Shannon was supposed to be be in Yasu's room. So why they don't mention Shannon here?


And then there is this sentence:

"ですよねー！　普通、２ぃ２ぃにしますよねぇ？"

Now depending on how it's translated it can make a difference.

if it is: "normally it's 2 and 2". You could presume that in Rokkenjima usually servants are assigned to double rooms. But in this case the odd one wouldn't be Yasu's and Shannon's room, it would be the 3 persons room they are in! Why rather than complaining about Yasu, they don't complain about their own room? Why they would complain that Yasu is in a double, if it is normal to be in a double?


So I think it makes more sense if it is: "normally you'd make 2 and 2".

So it goes like: "We are four servants, it would make more sense if we were split between two double rooms rather than 3 in 1 and 1 in a single".

But then that means there are only 4 servants and not 5.
If there were 5 servants, the split in "2" and "3" wouldn't be anything strange.
The other way you can do it is by "2", "2", "1". But then rather than complaining about Yasu they should have complained that they holed them up in a single room rather than in two.

I see...I kinda agree with you because 4 is one possible explanation if there is one room filled with 3 and another 1, but can be made into a pair. There is also 10, with 3-3-3-1 setup, but somehow 10 is just rather big a number imho. However, it's Kinzo who employ them, and you know what they say about Kinzo.

Also, I wonder who Kumazawa gets a room with

[Jan-Poo]

Kumasawa like Gohda and Genji has a room all for herself (as seen in EP5). I guess it's only the fukuin children that are normally placed in double or triple rooms.

As for the servants being in higher number than we have seen, if it's 3-3-3-2... then why they say normally the rooms should contain 2 people each?
If it's 3-2-2-2... then why they say that Yasu is the only one that doesn't stay in a triple room?

The only way it can really make sense is by having 4 fukuin servants in total.

[Judoh]

Originally Posted by Leafsnail

Yeah, it'd probably be possible with a hammer, or by, say, slamming someone's head against it. However, neither of these things really work if you're doing it to yourself...

I guess George culprit works fine for that.

I was thinking of a table leg since George is said to be holding a table leg as a weapon when Battler is holding his hatstand spear in episode 4. Or just the magic of martial arts. But a hammer is fine too.

[Leafsnail]

My old theory was that the stakes are actually spearheads (hence the odd shape) which would make them a bit more practical as weapons.

[Renall]

If they're really paperweights, I'm not even firmly convinced they're all that sharp.

[TehChron]

Originally Posted by Judoh

I was thinking of a table leg since George is said to be holding a table leg as a weapon when Battler is holding his hatstand spear in episode 4. Or just the magic of martial arts. But a hammer is fine too.

"Hey Gohda can you hold this stake thing to your chest like so for me?"

"Yes, George-Sama, like this?" *holds pointy end over his chest*

"SPINNING BACKWHEEL FATTY KICK, HII-YAH!"

[Will Wright]

Originally Posted by TehChron

"Hey Gohda can you hold this stake thing to your chest like so for me?"

"Yes, George-Sama, like this?" *holds pointy end over his chest*

"SPINNING BACKWHEEL FATTY KICK, HII-YAH!"

I prefer to think it went like this:

Gohda positioned the stake thing so that it would point to his chest, then he jumped on it and George's weight did the rest.

[Judoh]

Originally Posted by TehChron

"Hey Gohda can you hold this stake thing to your chest like so for me?"

"Yes, George-Sama, like this?" *holds pointy end over his chest*

"SPINNING BACKWHEEL FATTY KICK, HII-YAH!"

Actually if he's using a hammer and he's staking Gohda in the chest then it's just like one of those vampire movies.

A FAT YOUNG MAN ON A MISSION! THE BLOOD SUCKING CHEF OF ROKKENJIMA! COMING THIS DECEMBER AT COMIKET

[Leafsnail]

Originally Posted by Judoh

Actually if he's using a hammer and he's staking Gohda in the chest then it's just like one of those vampire movies.

A FAT YOUNG MAN ON A MISSION! THE BLOOD SUCKING CHEF OF ROKKENJIMA! COMING THIS DECEMBER AT COMIKET

I knew the Twilight thing wasn't a coincidence

[Helmet-kun]

I worked on this a bit, but here's my theory:

Spoiler for Piece-Beato Theory:

WHAT: The Beatrice that we see in Episode 6 is actually the Beatrice that appeared on the gameboard, but was made a 'king' of sorts by the Beato we see die back in EP 5.

HOW: Piece-Beato had no mind of her own (it's hinted throughout Ep 5 that pieces could 'act like anything' ) and basically did what Meta-Beato wanted. It was mentioned at the end of episode six:

It was......the piece that represented Beatrice.

It was sometimes a king, sometimes a queen, and could become a knight.

......However, that was only if it got promoted.
Until then, it was only a trash piece, like a pawn.

WHY: When we first meet Beatrice, we do not see an individual who 'pocessed love for Battler'. In fact, if you think about it, if Beato had loved Battler in the very beginning, then she wouldn't have created a game that would obviously hurt him, and then continue on with tricks that would make him cry.

What we instead see is a Beatrice who comes to love Battler.

Which is exactly the problem here.

Beatrice realizes that she can't love Battler because she's tied to the gameboard until either she wins or Battler wins. However, if either of them win, the other dies- meaning they can't be together in the metaworld because it obviously won't end very well. When Lambdelta basically traps her, she opts to share her soul with Piece-Beato, who can love Battler, and tries to make a human body for Piece-Beato.

At this point of time, I'd like to point out that two portraits of Beato exist. The first portrait is Meta-Beato, who was created by Kinzo. The second portrait is Piece Beato, created by Meta-Beato to represent her on the gameboard.

Meta-Beato then asks what kind of person Battler likes, so that she can form Piece-Beato's body exactly the way he likes his dream girl. Battler tries to imply that the type of girl he likes is Meta-Beato. Meta-Beato catches this, but continues to create Piece-Beato's body while at the same time, tries to pursue her happiness with meta-Battler. In an attempt to try to add Piece-Beato as a human, she implies that Shannon and Kanon are the same person and tries to make this truth so that she doesn't break her own truth.

When Meta-Beatrice dies at the end of episode 5, she leaves Piece-Beato with 'half a soul and half a body'. Meaning that Piece Beato is stuck in the middle of nowhere, unable to join the game board because she is not human, but unable to appear in the Meta world because she was not summoned. At the same time, it is because she pocesses some form that she can no longer play the Ghost of Rokkenjima, thus separating her from elder Beato.

Battler attempts to revive Meta-Beatrice by, of course, summoning her. He is successful, and Meta-Beato along with Piece-Beato appears. However, Battler and everyone else can only see Piece-Beato because they still don't really understand Meta-Beato, and when Piece-Beato doesn't act out her part right, they say that she is not really Beato, but a revival or a carbon copy. Meta-Beatrice, though, knows the truth, and hopes that they would see Piece-Beato not as a copy, but a human being.

Meta-Beatrice interfers at once point, and inhabits the illusion of Beatrice Battler makes up earlier in the story, and gets him to think of Piece-Beato as a daughter. She further interferes by showing Piece-Beato 'the reason why she was born and her thoughts while she did so', allowing Piece-Beato to understand and thus see her. Together, they create the illusion that Beatrice has been revived, when really it's just Piece-Beato listening to what Meta-Beato is telling her to do.

Following this theory, Piece-Beato and Meta-Beato try to create an alternative should Battler still not solve the games, in which Piece-Battler and Piece-Beato are both human and solve the mystery together, Battler learns to love and accept Beato, understand Meta-Beato, sunflowers and rainbows, etc. They created parts of EP7, but by that time, Battler finds the truth, and the story is 'abandoned' because Piece-Beato is no more. However, Featherine finds it, and together with Bern, finish the tale with lies, somewhat truth, and real truth, weaving all parts of Beato out with either Lyon / Yasu (who covers Piece-Beato) or Claire (who covers Meta Beato). They then realize that they need to cover up all parts of Piece-Battler in order to keep it consistent, and thus use Will to fill the role of Battler, edit the shit out of the story, and ta-dah.

Meta-Beatrice found out, and then threw a tantrum, saying that the Yasu theory didn't portray Beatrice correctly/ didn't explain her heart. Featherine, with mixed feelings, made this main story end happily. Bern got ticked off at this and created the Tea Party to kill off Lyon and Claire in spite, and everyone connected to the Ushiromiyas.

And as an added bonus, troll Ange.

[erneiz_hyde]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Kumasawa like Gohda and Genji has a room all for herself (as seen in EP5). I guess it's only the fukuin children that are normally placed in double or triple rooms.

As for the servants being in higher number than we have seen, if it's 3-3-3-2... then why they say normally the rooms should contain 2 people each?
If it's 3-2-2-2... then why they say that Yasu is the only one that doesn't stay in a triple room?

The only way it can really make sense is by having 4 fukuin servants in total.

"ですよねー！　普通、２ぃ２ぃにしますよねぇ？"

There is a slight mistake. The "normally" that line means refers to "common sense", not at "what usually transpired in the Ushiromiya household". 4 makes sense, but so does 10, and any number in (6n-2) formula, because the requirement is that Yasu being the only one not in a 3-persons room and shares her room with none.

[cmos]

Originally Posted by Leafsnail

For the ep2 Natsuhi's closed room - wouldn't it be quite difficult to smash a stake into your own head like that? I mean, I always assumed it would require a bit of post-mortem smashing to get it in.

Good thing, then, that the stake wasn't smashed in her head like that and just lied nearby. And it's not that hard to shoot yourself in the head and use some simple device to make a weapon disappear after that. Ryu sure loves the tricks from classics.

[erneiz_hyde]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Kumasawa like Gohda and Genji has a room all for herself (as seen in EP5). I guess it's only the fukuin children that are normally placed in double or triple rooms.

As for the servants being in higher number than we have seen, if it's 3-3-3-2... then why they say normally the rooms should contain 2 people each?
If it's 3-2-2-2... then why they say that Yasu is the only one that doesn't stay in a triple room?

The only way it can really make sense is by having 4 fukuin servants in total.

"ですよねー！　普通、２ぃ２ぃにしますよねぇ？"

There is a slight mistake. The "normally" that line means refers to "common sense", not at "what usually transpired in the Ushiromiya household". 4 makes sense, but so does 10, and any number in (6n-2) formula, because the requirement is that Yasu being the only one not in a 3-persons room and shares her room with none.

[Judoh]

Originally Posted by cmos

Good thing, then, that the stake wasn't smashed in her head like that and just lied nearby. And it's not that hard to shoot yourself in the head and use some simple device to make a weapon disappear after that. Ryu sure loves the tricks from classics.

We have plenty of red saying there are no suicides and that all deaths are homicides. I know what your referring to by classics, but I don't think he's using that trick just in this one place.

Besides Battler said he imagined the stake fell. He didn't actually see it. Heh... just one more reason why I don't think most of the stakes really even exist.

[cmos]

Originally Posted by Judoh

We have plenty of red saying there are no suicides and that all deaths are homicides.

There's no such red in ep2. You have no proof at all, that Will's rules apply. Even if they do apply, let's say that it wasn't suicide, because it was Beatrice who killed Shannon, but they just happened to be in the same body. We have "personalities" that count as different people, ep6 confirms it.
I think that Beatrice would do anything to create another "impossible" closed room, especially in fictions.

Besides Battler said he imagined the stake fell. He didn't actually see it. Heh... just one more reason why I don't think most of the stakes really even exist.

He clearly narrates it from the first person:
Shannon-chan's corpse was face down in front of the dresser, lying in a sea of blood.
...Because she was face down, I couldn't see her face, but I could imagine even without seeing it.
Nearby, in the sea of blood she lay in, a demon's stake had fallen...
Maybe my heart was completely tired out and dead...
Even though I knew what I was doing was wrong, ...I lifted her head, and checked.
......And, I made sure that my guess was right on the mark.
There was a gaping hole in Shannon-chan's head, and her insides were dripping out.
Not only that, ...you could even see, ...inside her.

Furthermore, Will didn't mention any illusions for this room, so Jessica's corpse doesn't work either.