Aldnoah.Zero - Character Discussion - Inaho Kaizuka

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Arya

We have on one side Inaho and Asseylum, who are the one that prioritize the bigger picture over their personal matters.

For Asseylum, stopping the war was always a personal matter. She's always loved and admired Earth. She's willing to oppose her own people out of those personal feelings. In addition, she knows some of the knights are traitors who had attempted her life, which adds another personal reason for her to fight.

[Arya]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

For Asseylum, stopping the war was always a personal matter. She's always loved and admired Earth. She's willing to go against her own people out of those personal feelings. In addition, she knows some knights are traitors who had attempted her life, which adds another personal reason for her to fight them.

She is supposed to be a pacifist who is instead going to fight (she activated the ship after all). She is going against her own beliefs for the big picture. And she loves Earth, but she is fighting against her own people not because it's Earth, but because they are at fault. That's the difference.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Arya

She is supposed to be a pacifist who is instead going to fight (she activated the ship after all). She is going against her own beliefs for the big picture. And she loves Earth, but she is fighting against her own people not because it's Earth, but because they are at fault. That's the difference.

My point stands. As you mentioned, she has realized it's basically her fault the war restarted, which adds an element of guilt to the picture. In the end, she's going against her supposed beliefs because of those feelings, so it's still a personal matter.

BTW, I wouldn't say she is a pacifist. I think the first episode makes it pretty clear she wanted to stop the war because she loves Earth. I mean, look how she's gushing about how beautiful Earth is and whatnot in that scene. Being a pacifist means being against war and violence by principle, and I'm not sure that's the case with her.

[Kokukirin]

Asseylum activated the ship because she wanted to help Inaho, who stayed outside to protect the carrier. And if they could not defeat the Martian Kataphrakt, everyone around her would die. Pacifist or not, she had to help.

Joining the fight is not really a betrayal of her own pacifist ideals either. She is the greatest hope to peace. In her mind, reaching the emperor (while avoiding Martians who want her dead) is the way out. She has to survive first and foremost, even if that means helping Earth when there is a need.

[Darthtabby]

I should probably have brought this up a few episodes back, but one character I find it interesting to compare Inaho to is Sinon Kouzuki from Starship Operators. Like Inaho, Sinon Kouzuki faces opponents who are often arrogant and equipped with gimmicky weapons. Her tactical genius also saves the ship in almost every battle and she's got a pretty reserved personality. Yet for the most part she manages to dodge some of the issues with Inaho's character. (This is not to say Starship Operators didn't have its own issues -I'm just noting that Sinon seems to largely avoid some of the problems with Inaho's character despite being similar in several respects.)

[Arya]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

My point stands. As you mentioned, she has realized it's basically her fault the war restarted, which adds an element of guilt to the picture. In the end, she's going against her supposed beliefs because of those feelings, so it's still a personal matter.

BTW, I wouldn't say she is a pacifist. I think the first episode makes it pretty clear she wanted to stop the war because she loves Earth. I mean, look how she's gushing about how beautiful Earth is and whatnot in that scene. Being a pacifist means being against war and violence by principle, and I'm not sure that's the case with her.

Yeah, we can say Asseylum characterization is still a bit weak. But what I was trying to say is that it seems Seylum and Inaho share a similar way of reasoning. They are actually fighting for end the conflict. On the other hand we have Slaine who instead acts for the Princess' sake only. As much as Rayet who instead acts out of revenge. The conflict for them is just an obstacle or a mean to take revenge.
BTW, I had the feeling that in this episode the moment Inaho and the Princess faced each other somehow was related to it (making their own decisions but somehow relating them to each other), but I re-watched the scene and it seems more just shipping content more than anything else.

[Flames]

Originally Posted by Arya

Yeah, we can say Asseylum characterization is still a bit weak. But what I was trying to say is that it seems Seylum and Inaho share a similar way of reasoning. They are actually fighting for end the conflict. On the other hand we have Slaine who instead acts for the Princess' sake only. As much as Rayet who instead acts out of revenge. The conflict for them is just an obstacle or a mean to take revenge.
BTW, I had the feeling that in this episode the moment Inaho and the Princess faced each other somehow was related to it (making their own decisions but somehow relating them to each other), but I re-watched the scene and it seems more just shipping content more than anything else.

Inaho and the Princess goal so far are the same thing. Which is peace on Earth. Slaince being consider Inaho enemy goes back to Inaho and the Princess considering those who tried to assassinate her the enemy. Slaine acted too suspicious and got impatient on wanting to see the princess that he threaten Inaho by preparing his guns and started to act hostile on the thought of the princess being used. Which Inaho saw as him being against that goal therefore an enemy. It's funny that although Slaine actions is to fulfilled the princess wishes it ends up doing the exact opposite effect. He ends up indirectly aiding those who are against the princess.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Arya

Slaine who instead acts for the Princess' sake only.

That's not true. Slaine doesn't want the princess to be used against her will, but he does want to end the conflict. The thing is he doesn't know exactly what to do about it just yet.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Arya

Yeah, we can say Asseylum characterization is still a bit weak. But what I was trying to say is that it seems Seylum and Inaho share a similar way of reasoning. They are actually fighting for end the conflict. On the other hand we have Slaine who instead acts for the Princess' sake only. As much as Rayet who instead acts out of revenge. The conflict for them is just an obstacle or a mean to take revenge.
BTW, I had the feeling that in this episode the moment Inaho and the Princess faced each other somehow was related to it (making their own decisions but somehow relating them to each other), but I re-watched the scene and it seems more just shipping content more than anything else.

You're making Inaho too noble and lofty. Firstly, he didn't seem to care about the conflict until his friend died (he even went back home and made lunch as if wasn't his business while all his classmates were helping people in the streets). Revenge motivated him as did survival for him and his friends. How different is that from Rayet? Slaine only has one person as 'friend', but he's motivated by similar things (his survival, the princess') except for revenge. Instead, we have Slaine, before he finds out the princess lived, lamenting over the deaths and feeling impotent about what to do because it wasn't supposed to be this way with the impotence he can't do anything (and the script describes him as "Broken-hearted" and not just for the princess' death).

In the meantime, Inaho would prefer to cook an omelette.

Inaho is a lot more like Rayet because he harbors vengeful thoughts and hatred he suppresses. He's more 'big pictured' focused but they are similar. She even gets his thought processes unlike the rest of the characters. While Slaine and Asseylum are similar, but Asseylum has a bigger picture (but again, Slaine is isolated from the major happenings to get involved). Nonetheless he wishes for peace with all his heart too (and it's reinforced by how he pines over this matter while receiving a beating in the script of a cutscene from episode 1 that came with the Archive involving Trillram). Asseylum even stated she was carrying his and his father's prayer for peace.

He's just out of the loop about what she wants to do. That's all.

In case of Inaho, does he truly want peace or does he want revenge but he's too rational to take it yet? We know he wants to survive and wants his loved ones to survive, nonetheless he's more an ambiguous character and he's written that way on purpose: because we don't have access to his thoughts.

[Arya]

That was not my point, to make him noble or whatever. It's just that judging by their actions, as I said, they prioritize the big picture and so are similar in a way.

About Inaho, well, he is really hard to read, so I can't really say he is still vengeful. To me it's more like he was turned on by the death of his friend, but what drives him now is preservation and that he sees a chance to end the conflict. Namely, Asseylum. His motivation was born by an accidental event. And then the events turned out having him in the position to have the means to try to stop the conflict. And among them Asseylum is or could become a mean. He is aware of it and seems to be ready to use her (in which way or to what extent is still to be seen, and that's also depend if you acknowledge or not he is becoming closer to Seylum).
On the other hand Seylum also got affected by an accidental event (in a far wider scope, but still accidental) and has always been held back by her maid and Rayet, but in the end came to the same conclusion of Inaho. And in fact she let her be exploited (Again to what extent is still to be seen). They came to the same conclusion on their own (well probably Inaho inspired her a bit).
On the same matter Slaine is on the opposite front and apparently even Rayet who kept warning her about the quite certain consequences if she had exposed herself.
Let's put in this way, they seems to be on the same/similar wavelength, Inaho and Seylum, Slaine and Rayet.
I'm not denying your points or Kazu-kun's, I agree that their own circumstances dictated their actions, and Slaine and Rayet being out of the loop is a big factor, but within this boundaries I still see these similarities, that make me thinks for example that it could be unlikely but very possible, that Asseylum would point a gun at Slaine (as Inaho pointing a gun at Asseylum), but not otherwise, Slaine wound not.

Oh, about Slaine honestly I probably missed his struggles about the war. I always seen his actions, like talking to the emperor to put an end to the war, as a way to save the princess. And I intended the irony that his action was what resumed the war as intentional by the writers.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Arya

That was not my point, to make him noble or whatever. It's just that judging by their actions, as I said, they prioritize the big picture and so are similar in a way.

Just because Inaho got lucky by plot, but not because he wanted to do it. Slaine tried to do this by going back to Cruhteo and report about the Princess but found himself without allies and wrapped in conspiracy. When he tried to contact the Emperor to stop the war, again he was outsmarted by Saazbaum. He went and tried to seize the big picture far more than Inaho did but was unable to succeed or the plot would have ended in episode 5.

Only after he failed and his life was at stake, he went back to search for Asseylum. His priority was to stop the war and battles too. He was even beaten up by Cruhteo when he tried to control his lashing out against the population.

Originally Posted by Arya

About Inaho, well, he is really hard to read, so I can't really say he is still vengeful. To me it's more like he was turned on by the death of his friend, but what drives him now is preservation and that he sees a chance to end the conflict. Namely, Asseylum. His motivation was born by an accidental event. And then the events turned out having him in the position to have the means to try to stop the conflict. And among them Asseylum is or could become a mean. He is aware of it and seems to be ready to use her (in which way or to what extent is still to be seen, and that's also depend if you acknowledge or not he is becoming closer to Seylum).

We do not have access to his thoughts or his plans. What we know is that he simply didn't give a damn about the conflict until he was personally affected by a loss, similarly to Rayet. Instead, Slaine and Asseylum wished for peace before the conflict even began.

Originally Posted by Arya

Let's put in this way, they seems to be on the same/similar wavelength, Inaho and Seylum, Slaine and Rayet.

I feel is the opposite, honestly. The personality and motivations seem closer in Rayet and Inaho.

Originally Posted by Arya

I'm not denying your points or Kazu-kun's, I agree that their own circumstances dictated their actions, and Slaine and Rayet being out of the loop is a big factor, but within this boundaries I still see these similarities

There's a difference there: Rayet chooses to be out of loop. Slaine is kept by the plot. The main similitude between Rayet and Slaine are their condition of "immigrant" of the other planet who lost their father.

Oh, about Slaine honestly I probably missed his struggles about the war. I always seen his actions, like talking to the emperor to put an end to the war, as a way to save the princess. And I intended the irony that his action was what resumed the war as intentional by the writers.

He wants to do both.

[Arya]

Originally Posted by Thess

I feel is the opposite, honestly. The personality and motivations seem closer in Rayet and Inaho.

But I'm not talking about their motivations, that differ, nor about their personalities, not completely. But about their reasoning and their, I don't know how to call it, inclinations.

What I'm trying to say is that what dictate Slaine actions is the princess' safety, he actually doesn't care if he had to shoot a Martian or a Terrain, and in fact he shot both in this same episode. And apparently doesn't have big issues if saving/rescuing the princess would mean to put the Terrain at the mercy of the VERS. And he knows for sure that the VERS plotted to conquer the Earth. And he is a terrain to begin with. What he did before he discovered she was still alive doesn't count because, well she was dead so he didn't have to save her. And also not that he did have any chances to do something at that time.

About Rayet, it is difficult to make an example with her, but it seems she doesn't give a damn about the war per sé, she looks for revenge and she jumped from wanting to go back to Mars, probably his father wish, to hate ALL the Martians.

They both are focusing on one single point that is their center of gravity. It doesn't really matter if they have to side with one or the other side. And they didn't struggle taking these decisions, they came out naturally, that doesn't mean easily, given their, how I called them again, inclinations.

On the other side, both Inaho and Seylum didn't just move out on their inclinations. As you pointed out, Inaho didn't want to get involved (or thought he couldn't make the difference, his way of thinking has not been explained yet). But he did get involved anyways. And it's like he need to check his motivation now and then, like in this episode.
As much as Seylum, she didn't mean to side with the Terrains, yes she aided them in a specific circumstance, but then she stuck with the plan to remain hidden. This time she chose against her own people and probably beliefs.

And probably yes, in a way you were right, their aim is more noble than the other, that doesn't imply that their motivations are also noble. Speaking of Inaho at this point we could speculate about at least three motivations that could drive him to end the conflict, or to fight for, Seylum, the safety of his friends and the refugees, or for vengeance. Of a bit of all of them.

To make it short, Inaho and Seylum are on the same page, they put the conflict as first priority, Slaine and Rayet don't. What the other two need to to is just to align. Position that they didn't reach yet even due to their circumstances. And that doesn't mean that Inaho and Seylum could not disagree or become even enemies in the future. (well, given the name chosen for the ship I'm starting to suspect that the show is more straightforward than people are expecting to be, but anyways).

Obviously the actions they took, speaking of Inaho and Seylum, are dictated by the events, but since there are writers behind it, this is highly possible to be intentional. (That actually goes back to the kind of growth I'm expecting by Seylum by the way).
Or could be not,obviously, given how sloppy the writing is at times. But that's something we have to wait to ascertain

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Arya

What I'm trying to say is that what dictate Slaine actions is the princess' safety, he actually doesn't care if he had to shoot a Martian or a Terrain, and in fact he shot both in this same episode. And apparently doesn't have big issues if saving/rescuing the princess would mean to put the Terrain at the mercy of the VERS. And he knows for sure that the VERS plotted to conquer the Earth. And he is a terrain to begin with. What he did before he discovered she was still alive doesn't count because, well she was dead so he didn't have to save her. And also not that he did have any chances to do something at that time.

Or he assumed she was being used against her will to war on her people, that's not going to solve the conflict but prolong it from both sides. Slaine wants peace, not the continuation of war. He would be wary if Inaho gives him dodgy answers and if the princess (as far as he knew) had revealed herself a long time ago but no word was sent to her grandfather which is suspicious as hell, coupled with his well-cultivated suspicion after his personal experience (in case you missed the reason behind this is because he realized everyone was utilizing her as an excuse to war, whether they betrayed her or not). As far as he was concerned, she is probably a hostage. Of course he's worried about her safety, Inaho would do the same for his sister or his friends. He went on a revenge plan for a friend.

Originally Posted by Arya

To make it short, Inaho and Seylum are on the same page, they put the conflict as first priority, Slaine and Rayet don't. What the other two need to to is just to align. Position that they didn't reach yet even due to their circumstances.

That's what Slaine did until the Emperor left him no choice: he wanted to find out who the conspirators were, stop the war and punish them. He's not in the 'same page' because he can't even speak to Asseylum to know what the deal is and how they are to solve this (contacting her grandfather is a given). Do you honestly think Inaho was in the "same page" until she explained herself? He wasn't, that's why, uh, there was a conversation or two. Wait a moment, Slaine was in the same page as she was, because he went to speak to her grandfather which was also her plan. I don't even know how can you even compare him with Rayet who purposefully wants to hurt people for her selfish vengeance.

Slaine returned to the castle and tried to contact the Emperor, prioritizing that over reuniting with Asseylum, only after that failed, he did this. Because he doesn't know how else proceed.

I don't know if Inaho puts the conflict as priority, he strikes me as just trying to survive and protect his loved ones, not something of the "big picture". Asseylum certain does.

[orion]

Originally Posted by Thess

In the meantime, Inaho would prefer to cook an omelette.

Actually, in times of war, you're suppose to eat fast. So him, taking care of himself first in a chaotic situation was the best choice imo.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by orion

Actually, in times of war, you're suppose to eat fast. So him, taking care of himself first in a chaotic situation was the best choice imo.

I mean to say that shows far from the bleeding noble heart that Arya says he is. Now he can be developing that way.

[Death Usagi]

Inaho should make eggs for everyone especially Asseylum to seduce her with his egg cooking >:3

[Mikethemaster]

Originally Posted by Death Usagi

Inaho should make eggs for everyone especially Asseylum to seduce her with his egg cooking >:3

I don't think Asseylum knows what eggs are but maybe she does i don't know. Inaho probably makes good eggs

[Arya]

Originally Posted by Thess

I mean to say that shows far from the bleeding noble heart that Arya says he is. Now he can be developing that way.

ahah, I didn't mean shamelessly noble, just fairly I mean, considering how badly the Earth has been hit, focusing on the big picture is fairly noble (intended more as, you know, normal). And Inaho first, and now Seylum, realized it. So, on the same page. Intended as they realized how bad the situation is an decided to go forward. As, yes, they were before, she and Slaine, starting from when they were living their more quiet lives on Mars.
As I said it's likely that Slaine will catch up and maybe meanwhile Inaho and Seylum directions will diverge. But Slaine needs first to reach the princess.

About Slaine and Rayet I still see them having shared traits, due to their circumstances and experiences. I feel that they are focusing on their more personal matters. And if they had to they would chose that over the rest. That's it.

Oh, btw what do you mean with now he can?

[orion]

Originally Posted by Death Usagi

Inaho should make eggs for everyone especially Asseylum to seduce her with his egg cooking >:3

He should include chocolate in his repertoire. Make her a chocolate cake instead.

[Fortress Maximus]

Originally Posted by Thess

That was likely a print mistake:



From the Archives just released. It's February 7th.

What is "The Archives"?