Random speculation: Haku vs. Tenten

[Shay]

Originally Posted by Kayess

In the manga.. they have Ino and Sakura talking for the entire thing.. and the only image we do have is an image of tenten on the end of temari's fan and being thrown off. There are tons of weapons laying around as well. We cannot conclude much just from the outcome of the fight about her abilities though.

LOL! That's all I needed to hear.

Obviously she is just a week non important char, imo it sounds like at least the anime did her some jusice.

[Anthriel]

Originally Posted by _Sin_

Still, you don't know if the outcome if the fight would have been different if Haku would have been serious from the beginning. He might have take precautions like Zabuza did with Kakashi (the Mist Jutsu); I'm pretty sure that Sasuke, even with (2 or 3 dot) Sharingan, would have been obliterated by Haku because
a) Sasuke does not how to summon dogs
b) even if he'd knew, Haku would fight defensively and from a distance to avoid getting marked with blood through his Demonic Ice Mirrors

Actually, if Haku could do b) he might even have a chance vs. Kakashi.

Then, why didn't Haku use that jutsu to hit Sasuke? And how would he hit Sasuke in the mist anyway? Zabuza had special training to kill without seeing, but did Haku have that ability as well? We don't know if Haku had any special counters for Sharingan, that is true. However, it is more productive to talk about abilities people have, instead of abilites they might have.

[Lee-pimp]

number one, im pretty sure there is a rule against vs. threads although they may have gotten rid of that in my absence from the forums.
anyway, pure taijutsu haku wins, tenten hasnt shown any skills except for her weapons, if she had good taijutsu she would have used it against temari, also haku was said to have great taijutsu so hands down haku. With ninjutsu its even more easily haku's fight.

[NaOH]

Ok, maybe sasuke can dodge the needles with sharingan(while focusing hard), but theres so much potential to haku's demon ice mirror jutsu:
he could of:

(a) add a layer of ice on the floor so it be slippery and harder for sasuke to dodge
(b) add mist to the air so it be harder for sasuke to see (he show zabuza how to counter the sharingan)
(c) use kunai instead of senbon
(d) freeze sasuke's legs
(e) or do all the above

if haku had any bit of killer intent, sasuke wouldn't have a chance to awaken his sharingan (and naruto wouldn't have time to awaken the fox)

as for TenTen... i see her on par with sakura

[neodrag38]

The fact is that if Haku was trying to actually kill Sasuke and Naruto, they would be dead. The fact that all he used were senbon needles instead of using like shruiken made of ice show that he was trying to get them out of the way without killing them. I'm also annoyed with this whole Sasuke dodgin the needles yet there was the situation in both the anime and manga that Haku can easily send out projectiles from all the mirrors at the same time, making it pratically impossible to dodge all of those senbons. I don't find it too spectacular for Sasuke to dodge or stop needles not coming from just one or two mirrors.

Also don't forget the fact that this situation had a Sasuke covered in Senbons and that the use of the Sharingan still does take up chakra with the fact he was using it for the first time and wouldn't be able to deal easily with the little setback that follows along with all bloodlines in that a bloodline ability requires the use of chakra. Haku won the fight and still would have won in that Sasuke still doesn't have a complete advantage in battle against Haku during this fight.

Edit: Oh and by the way, there's no way in hell that Tenten would win against Haku for obvious reasons. We're talking about a guy would has been trained to aim for non-fatal and fatal areas of the opponents body, that in itself requires great aim.

[ssjian1]

If Haku were actually trying to kill Naruto and Sasuke, I predict the following ways in which Naruto and Sasuke would come out on top:

var sarcasm= "Sasuke does a massive replacement no jutsu, puts Sakura in his place, and escapes. Sakura, motionless in fear, is hammered with Haku's needles. Upon seeing this, Kyuubi decides to say "Hi, how ya doin'?" to Naruto, and in the blink of a sharingan eye, Naruto is fired up and ready to rock and roll. Naruto, with the blessing of Kyuubi, shatters the mirrors, and saves the day (much like what happened when Sasuke nearly perished, but to a much greater extent, for it was almost Sakura this time).";

var sarcasm_two = "By the grace of his eyes, Sasuke manages to grab hold of Haku's ankle. Haku trips and falls to the ground. Sasuke helps him up and instructs him to take off his mask and take a good, long look in one of his mirrors. Haku does this reluctantly but full of curiosity. As the mask falls to the ground, Sasuke condems Haku for looking like a girl. Haku quickly glances at several of his mirrors! His image is everywhere, and he falls to his knees where he breaks out in tears. Sasuke and Naruto comfort the poor boy... Haku destroys his mirrors out of shame.";

I hope that clears things up for everyone.

[raikage]

Originally Posted by Shay

LOL! That's all I needed to hear.

Obviously she is just a week non important char, imo it sounds like at least the anime did her some jusice.

I disagree. If anything, the anime version completely destroyed any credibility Tenten might have had as a ninja by making EVERY single attack of hers seem so useless and futile.

[Bflip]

Originally Posted by Shay

Haku would still win. Haku would be superior in Taijutsu and Genjusu.

But Haku beating Kakashi?....LOL!



But that's even funnier! Haku could have killed Sasuke and Naruto in a mater of seconds if he really wanted to.

Funny how much stronger Naruto is than Kakashi. :P
(I'm talking brute power, not who would win in a fight. It's known that Kyuubi Naruto has more chakra than Kakashi and can heal any blows given to him)

[Bflip]

Originally Posted by Iscarecht

Well, what I was thinking is that, with clear fields of fire, the battle comes down to who can throw with the greatest accuracy and dodge best. I doubt Haku would have time to open up with Genjutsu if he's got six or seven kunais headed for him at top speed. Granted, this is much more of a possibility in a forest duel (Haku could set up a trap and confuse Tenten before landing a critical shot) but that's why I asked both questions. And Taijutsu...? Do you really think Haku would try and close to melee range while under fire, especially since he's best at flinging senbon?

My opinions on this: Haku wins in a forest environment, since he does have better stealth and the apparent ability to teleport over short distances, which would allow him to get a surprise attack in on Tenten. In a open shooting ground...well, that's what I'm not sure of. Haku can definitely dodge better than Tenten, but she's got some scary accuracy and a good rate of fire. Plus, her hits pack a lot more punch than Haku's, and his constitution looks iffy, so if she gets one or two lucky hits, he's screwed.

And yes, I recognize that Haku would probably cream Tenten if Ninjutsu was allowed...if he uses Demonic Ice Mirrors, Tenten has no clear target, and if she shoots at one mirror, Haku just needs to reflect to another and put a handful of senbon in her back.

As for the other points: Haku could have taken Naruto and Sasuke down in seconds IF HE WANTED TO. As Zabuza put it, he's too kind to do that. And against Kakashi...well, Kakashi did seem to be somewhat unnerved by Haku's power, but I suppose the Copy Ninja would be able to pull some jutsu out of his immense bag of tricks and get out of Demonic Ice Mirrors, assuming Haku didn't land a lucky shot at first.

Oh, and _Sin_...sorry 'bout that. Are vs. threads considered not kosher here?

I really don't think Kunais will be difficult for Haku to dodge...

[CyberPunk]

Originally Posted by neodrag38

The fact is that if Haku was trying to actually kill Sasuke and Naruto, they would be dead. The fact that all he used were senbon needles instead of using like shruiken made of ice show that he was trying to get them out of the way without killing them. I'm also annoyed with this whole Sasuke dodgin the needles yet there was the situation in both the anime and manga that Haku can easily send out projectiles from all the mirrors at the same time, making it pratically impossible to dodge all of those senbons. I don't find it too spectacular for Sasuke to dodge or stop needles not coming from just one or two mirrors.

Also don't forget the fact that this situation had a Sasuke covered in Senbons and that the use of the Sharingan still does take up chakra with the fact he was using it for the first time and wouldn't be able to deal easily with the little setback that follows along with all bloodlines in that a bloodline ability requires the use of chakra. Haku won the fight and still would have won in that Sasuke still doesn't have a complete advantage in battle against Haku during this fight.

Edit: Oh and by the way, there's no way in hell that Tenten would win against Haku for obvious reasons. We're talking about a guy would has been trained to aim for non-fatal and fatal areas of the opponents body, that in itself requires great aim.

i agree haku would demolish sasuke pre and post sharingan if he truly intended too, but at that point in the game, haku was also worn out. he even stated that he could not keep up that movement much longer and that attacking sasuke would be dangerous. sasuke would have overcome haku at that point and time.

[Vong]

Haku wins easily. TenTen may never miss... but Haku knows better where to aim with his medical knowledge. He would only need one pin to land in the right spot while TenTen doesn't have that kind of medical knowledge... she'd need a lot more to land before she won.

[neodrag38]

Originally Posted by CyberPunk

i agree haku would demolish sasuke pre and post sharingan if he truly intended too, but at that point in the game, haku was also worn out. he even stated that he could not keep up that movement much longer and that attacking sasuke would be dangerous. sasuke would have overcome haku at that point and time.

Yet it seem that Haku still had enough energy to send out senbons for all the mirrors at the same time, got a huge punch in the face by Naruto who Kyubi charged, and still had enough energy to make another mirror to sacrifice himself for Zabuza. That pretty much leans to him still having some energy left. Just because someone has a cautious thought about their opponent doesn't mean they are going to lose, just that they are not insanely cocky and willing to ignore any changes in the opponent.

[nh1]

Originally Posted by CyberPunk

sasuke would have overcome haku at that point and time.

I don't see why people are saying this. Both Haku and Sasuke should've been tired at that time and Sasuke hadn't really done anything towards Haku until he tossed Haku away from Naruto, and at that time Haku "killed" (could have, if he wanted to) Sasuke. No one can say what would happen, but if Haku had fought seriously in the beginning, he would've won. Easily.

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by nh1

I don't see why people are saying this. Both Haku and Sasuke should've been tired at that time and Sasuke hadn't really done anything towards Haku until he tossed Haku away from Naruto, and at that time Haku "killed" (could have, if he wanted to) Sasuke. No one can say what would happen, but if Haku had fought seriously in the beginning, he would've won. Easily.

At the beginning of their fight when Sasuke hadn't started to awake the Sharingan I don't think anyone ever said that Sasuke had a chance to win if Haku really wanted to kill him.
He also chose not to kill him when he used Naruto as a bait to force Sasuke to take hits in order to save his comrade.

But in the other hand after a while when Sasuke awakened his Sharingan, Haku admitted himself that he couldn't hit him anymore, that he couldn't maintain his jutsu for long because it cost too much chakra and thus that he was in trouble and made a mistake attacking Sasuke that way.

Sasuke didn't look very tired, Haku's needles weren't good weapons when they didn't hit vital spots.
He could still perfectly avoid the attacks of Haku and do that more and more easily with time, time which was against Haku using a jutsu costing much in chakra contrary to Sasuke.
Out of his mirrors and low in chakra, Haku who couldn't do much against Sasuke when he hadn't even the Sharingan would have been pretty much screwed.



About Ten-Ten, I can't even start to imagine a way for her to stand against Haku.

[neodrag38]

Originally Posted by Hunter

At the beginning of their fight when Sasuke hadn't started to awake the Sharingan I don't think anyone ever said that Sasuke had a chance to win if Haku really wanted to kill him.
He also chose not to kill him when he used Naruto as a bait to force Sasuke to take hits in order to save his comrade.

But in the other hand after a while when Sasuke awakened his Sharingan, Haku admitted himself that he couldn't hit him anymore, that he couldn't maintain his jutsu for long because it cost too much chakra and thus that he was in trouble and made a mistake attacking Sasuke that way.

Sasuke didn't look very tired, Haku's needles weren't good weapons when they didn't hit vital spots.
He could still perfectly avoid the attacks of Haku and do that more and more easily with time, time which was against Haku using a jutsu costing much in chakra contrary to Sasuke.
Out of his mirrors and low in chakra, Haku who couldn't do much against Sasuke when he hadn't even the Sharingan would have been pretty much screwed.



About Ten-Ten, I can't even start to imagine a way for her to stand against Haku.

Would you say that Sasuke would be able to dodge projectiles coming at him from all the mirrors all at once like what Haku did to Naruto when he was taken over by Kyubi?

[nh1]

Haku was succesfull in his first attempt to defeat Sasuke with Sharingan (Yes, he did use Naruto as a decoy, but since he in fact was succesfull, that means there could have been lots of other ways. Thus we cannot see the outcome).

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by neodrag38

Would you say that Sasuke would be able to dodge projectiles coming at him from all the mirrors all at once like what Haku did to Naruto when he was taken over by Kyubi?

Firstly that's an anime filler scene only.
But anyway yes : if Haku can strike like that and admit that dispite that he couldn't hit Sasuke anymore and was forced to seek a different way to be able to touch Sasuke using Naruto as bait then he couldn't hit Sasuke simple as that.

Originally Posted by nh1

Haku was succesfull in his first attempt to defeat Sasuke with Sharingan (Yes, he did use Naruto as a decoy, but since he in fact was succesfull, that means there could have been lots of other ways. Thus we cannot see the outcome).

No, he was succesfull to defeat Sasuke with the Sharingan with Naruto.
Without threatening Naruto to force Sasuke to be at a known place and make impossible for him to dodge Haku couldn't hit him anymore.
If your point is merely to say that Kishomoto could have invented any other plot in his storyline to make this situation happen differently then okey it's true of course.
But it's not a matter of abilities.

Haku was most than probably overall a better ninja than Sasuke at this time but the Sharingan was just the worst match for Haku's best jutsu.
Actually it's possible that a weaker jutsu than the Demonic Mirrors could have been a better idea against someone with the Sharingan.

[MysticNinjaJay]

I love fantasy fights but I'm starting to hate fantasy threads. The one thing that interests me is how strong Haku actually was. Was he just so formidable because of his bloodine and ability to devise jutsu like the demon ice mirrors? Or was he far above Genin level and really on par with Kakashi like Sakura and Zabuza said (Sakura being the only one to say Haku was better than Kakashi). He lost out in speed to Sasuke when they fought normally which indicates that he isn't that much above Genin level and yet Zabuza said Kakashi could not defeat him. I don't think there is anyway Tenten of all people could defeat Haku but I think Kakashi could defeat the ice mirrors if Sasuke was able to atleast hit him. Haku was playing around with Naruto and Sasuke because he didn't want to kill them but is he really all that strong compared to a Jounin?

[Shay]

Originally Posted by ShurikenJay

Haku was playing around with Naruto and Sasuke because he didn't want to kill them but is he really all that strong compared to a Jounin?

.....................NO

[hmongstang]

yo mag readers! mind to tell me who's Haku and tenen?