2012-02-23, 05:58 | Link #1201 | |||||
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For instance, the reason a lot a of people are giving Taichi the benefit of the doubt is because he is good looking. If he looks like Retro guy, a lot of people will not be as kind. Another point is that although I agree Taichi has grown, he still remains very much the coward inside. For example, he does try to go for Chihiya because he is afraid of rejection. Also, he is still spiteful. When he lost to Nishida, he did not really react very sportsmanlike. Anyway, Taichi would not be someone I would want as a friend, as it gets tiring for your friend to always want to be better than you. Quote:
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I guess one of the biggest issue is that, do you trust him to be there for you when you need it? He has conflicts in his mind, and oftentime, does what his best for him. He puts up an image of what others expect him to do, not what he genuinely wants to do. It is hard to trust someone like that. Quote:
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Either way, as a character, Taichi has fundamental characteristics that make him unlikeable to me. Different strokes for different folks, I guess. I am sure there are things about him that make a lot of people like him and forgive his flaws. However, to me, those flaws underly his character, and its not easily acceptable for me.
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2012-02-23, 06:53 | Link #1202 | |||||||
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I hardly see how Taichi's goal is to want to be better than anyone. He sees Arata as a rival but that is not necessarily a bad thing. You can be rivals and friends. Think of their two teachers, think of Hikaru & Akira in Hikaru no Go. Quote:
I don't see how he isn't there for his friends. Quote:
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edited: since I am no longer rushing out the door to get to work.
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Last edited by Kirarakim; 2012-02-23 at 10:04. |
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2012-02-23, 10:38 | Link #1204 | |
Knowledge is the solution
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Furthermore, and this is something I like about Taichi's depiction, he feels human more than an ideal, he feels real rather than an idealized author depiction of the energy of youth. And above all, he strives to be a better person despite being imperfect. That's what people like the most about him. I guess the underlying message is that it's not that people like Taichi disregarding his flaws. They like him in spite, or even because of them.
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2012-02-23, 15:29 | Link #1205 | ||||||||
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I really do not want to get into a shipping war, so I'll try to be brief in my responses.
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Yes, he is flawed, but accepting those flaws and recognizing them is up to each individual person. The flaws I see in him could be different from the flaws other people see in him. Anyway, this is all I want to discuss about Taichi. I most likely will not further discuss this topic for the time being.
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2012-02-23, 16:21 | Link #1206 | |
I disagree with you all.
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Arata, OTOH, is so "perfect", everything seem to come easily to him, whether it's karuta or his being "nice". Compared to Taichi's daily frustrations, he had one big tragedy (his grandfather's death), and he went to pieces over it. I don't dislike Arata, but I guess I relate to him less. |
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2012-02-23, 16:45 | Link #1207 | |||||||
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I will say briefly how I feel about shipping: I would prefer a Taichi/Chihaya ending (not for the anime but overall) but I am leaning (not 100%) towards it being Arata/Chihaya. However if it is Arata/Chihaya I am not going to write off the series. I do think there are much more important things to the story than "who ends up with who" and ultimately I just want Taichi to be happy, no matter what ending he gets. I don't want him to have to settle because from a story perspective that would be disappointing. But my debate with you was more in terms of characterization not shipping or who should end up with who. Quote:
Well I think that is bit condescending to Taichi fans. I am sorry but I don't like and defend his character because he "looks good". I like and defend his character because I feel he is an extremely well written and well rounded character, looks have nothing to do with it. Now while I am a woman, I know quite a few of the Taichi defenders on here are guys so I certainly don't think they are biased by his looks. But I am not either and I think that is a very shallow way to look at a character. And there are plenty of aesthetically pleasing characters that I would not defend because they are poorly written. I defend Taichi because he is the exact opposite of that to me. Quote:
And yes while he is growing and improving that doesn't mean I think he will never make another mistake again. If he didn't that would just be boring. Quote:
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Please note: I am not trying to say Chihaya is a bad character in comparison to Taichi. She's not! But no character is perfect in this series. Quote:
And when Arata was riding his bicycle towards them both Chihaya& Taichi were happy to see him (the way Taichi reacted to Arata in this episode with tears in his eyes should show you how much Taichi cares about Arata). Even if it hurts a little to see Chihaya go after Arata (which I think is a natural feeling) Taichi has never once purposely kept Chihaya away from Arata. Quote:
And besides the guy is in his first year of High School, if I was to judge all boys & girls on their relationships then I would be condeming a lot of good kids. And yes I think Taichi is ultimately a good kid. He makes mistakes sometimes but the point is he wants to improve himself and that is what makes him an admirable character & yes definitely a nice guy.
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2012-02-23, 17:16 | Link #1208 | ||
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It is that way in real life as well. If a person is more attractive, they are more likely to get away with more mistakes than a person that is less attractive. It is just human nature. I'm not saying everyone is that way but just generally.
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2012-02-23, 17:26 | Link #1209 | |
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I'm not criticizing Arata's character. I'm just trying to explain why most people relate more to Taichi than Arata. Even in Japan this manga's major selling point is Taichi's inner struggle. People emphasize with this because everyone has flaws, and we all want to overcome these shortcomings and become better persons, just like him.
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Last edited by Kazu-kun; 2012-02-23 at 17:44. |
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2012-02-23, 17:40 | Link #1211 | |
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I'll admit I became a Taichi fan the minute he returned the glasses to Arata. I knew we had something special (in terms of writing) and well Taichi hasn't disappointed me yet.
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2012-02-23, 19:00 | Link #1213 | |
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This episode made a revelation of Arata's hesitations/nervousness in reconnecting with his friends. In particular we get a sense of Arata's awareness of Taichi's romantic interest in Chihaya. That has always been an underlying current in Arata's relationship with Taichi, so now, having spent so many years separated from not only them, but karuta, what do you think Arata was thinking? Imagine if Chihaya and Taichi had been dating, and Taichi told him to butt out, like Arata was fearing? Such thoughts must certainly have run through Arata's mind. I think that Arata and Taichi's relationship really is complicated in that while there is a part of them which each respects the other, and both acknowledges and finds joy in the tight bond in the past that they shared, both of them also have a heavy awareness of the tension between them on account of Chihaya. Not only in Taichi's struggles against "running away" which we are so familiar with, but also in the way that (I think) Arata's words towards him often come off as genuinely condescending, I think that their relationship does something to bring out the darkest parts of their personalities. In this episode we see that Arata was hesitating. Contrary to his outward appearance of surety or confidence, I think that what he was ultimately afraid of was that Taichi might not have him back. And contrary to any actual interest Arata might have had romantically towards Chihaya (which is extremely likely, if you ask me), I think Arata subordinated that for the sake of re-establishing their friendship. He did that because, right now, what Arata truly wants back is friendship (the joy and comraderie he felt in playing karuta with Taichi and Chihaya), after that long period of his life he spent being depressed and useless--but, what we've seen from the beginning is that Arata also is a man. As a child, Arata was willing to brattily squabble with Taichi about who was responsible for upsetting Chihaya; at their first reunion after they entered highschool, Arata straight up told Taichi he was still a coward and hadn't changed. In truth, when from the start their relationship was established with Arata forgiving Taichi for his cowardly actions against him--from the beginning, I feel like Arata was perfectly willing to fight. That is why, this episode's Arata who told Taichi he was willing to hold off on approaching Chihaya out of consideration was a startling contrast to me. I genuinely think that Arata has been cowed (by his own insecurities! By his own needs.) into subordinating himself as a man. And that's something fascinating and complex, I'd say. As characterization. Anyway, I'm not on any side yet as far as romance in this series goes. Actually, there's a chance that I might get sick of the romance in this show if they seriously go anywhere with it. For my own gratification, I would pair Chihaya up with Shinobu--but artistically for this series that'd probably be pretty bullshit, lol. My point is moreso that, I do think that both Taichi and Arata have been imbued with depth and human conflict in this series as characters. |
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2012-02-23, 19:21 | Link #1214 | |
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Oh well, just to set things straight. I wasn't making any ad hominem pass whatsoever. It was the first thing that came to mind, a kind of a spur of the moment. But really, if you really think something as simple as "your sense of justice is warped if you think that children should be held responsible for simple pranks even years later." is a personal attack then I apologize to have offended everyone involved. Taichi being a coward or not has nothing to do with someone hoping that he doesn't get a girl (who is so bland that I don't even support the ship in the first place) for something he did as a kid. But in any case, I disagree that only that manly line made it seem like he will improve - he has been improving all this while. Even admitting to hiding Arata's glasses before him and apologizing for it was already something that requires big guts. He has been growing steadily ever since. And other characters are quick to notice. Dr. Harada had another moment where he lauded Taichi's growth several episodes back, for instance.
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2012-02-23, 19:44 | Link #1215 |
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Hmm. I can see how saying someone's "sense of justice is warped" because of their view of a fictional character can be considered a personal attack by some. But you said you didn't mean it and it was a spur of the moment, which is sometimes unavoidable when posting on the Internets. Plus, it's nowhere near the flaming that warrants mods intervening. I do agree that he's being too hard on Taichi though.
Last edited by sikvod00; 2012-02-23 at 21:43. |
2012-02-23, 21:36 | Link #1216 | |
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What bugs me about this story is that they introduced this wonderful character by the name of Arata and then threw him in the corner somewhere collecting dust. I like his humble background. It's kind of hard to follow a story where my favorite character appears a few times in 20 eps. I would follow the story more if he has more screen time, not spot watching like this.
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2012-02-23, 21:54 | Link #1217 |
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Well of course Taichi has the advantage for being on screen more than Arata. So yeah it is harder to care for Arata in the same way I care about Taichi (that is not the fault of Arata but the writing itself).
However just because a character is a main character does not necessarily mean they get the great character development that Taichi is getting in this series. I won't name any particular series but there are plenty of characters in other shows with the same or more screen time than Taichi that don't get half his character development.
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2012-02-24, 12:38 | Link #1218 | |
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2012-02-24, 16:14 | Link #1219 |
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There's so much going on in this episode it simply defies expression. The anime heaps you, to use Melville's expression--overwhelms you with significance, more and more. This is just the most amazing show.
So, one of the key points in the anime, I think we all agree, is Taichi's statement to Harada-sensei, after Harada-sensei offers to promote Taichi to Class A: "Sensei, I'm not so much focused on making Class A / As I'm focused on becoming someone who doesn't run away." The awe on Harada-sensei's face, the statement's position as the climax of the conversation are the animators' way of highlighting the significance of the moment. I think if we can answer even the simplest questions about Taichi's words--such as "what does he mean?" and "why does he say this?"--we will go a long way toward understanding the episode and the anime as a whole. Spoiler for Length:
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Last edited by hyperborealis; 2012-03-15 at 13:13. |
2012-02-24, 21:24 | Link #1220 |
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Yes, this is definitly the key point for Taichi. Especially when you consider that Harada's offer is legitimate one and was not exception, an issue that was argued back about Shinobu's A-qualification at 4th grade.
For all purpose, Taichi's two 2nd place would have earned him that promotion if he belongs in other club. But because of the local club tradition he can't, not Harada is willing to promote him and he turned it down show his determination that he would no longer turn away from his weakness. Keep in mind his upbringing. Back when he lost to Arata in the school tournament. His mom noted that he shouldn't be in a competition where he can't win. I think that really is his issue at the end that on the outside he is great at everything but in reality he was only doing things that he was confident about .
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josei, karuta, madhouse |
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