Toradora! - Episode 16 Discussion / Poll

[Fran~]

Originally Posted by ThinkTank

The only reason that Ami says that to minori is because she has an idea of what is going through minori's head atm.

I guess they didn't get the point across that Ami isn't just a vicious person. She also is the type that can read others very well.

QFT... there is this kind of people who reads others like an open book.

Minori even knows that and she told that to Ryuuji pointing how "mature" Amin is and how hard to she must be deal with a bunch of kids. Minori is freaking scared of being readed by Amin and Amin already knows it...

Spoiler:

that's why she banged her head at the wall after she said that to Minori.

[physics223]

That's a lot they didn't include from the episode, but it didn't detract from the episode itself.

[wynaut]

Originally Posted by Manji Midou

hmm....

What did Ami say to Minori at the end?

hmm..they say it's about her(minorin) feelings to ryujii..

anyway, this is one of the best touching episode i've seen, but it's just kind of embarrassing when girls are fighting just because of a boy particularly in school.

[Fran~]

i'm totally an antiviolence person, but i think that at some point are some issues to deal that are imposible to say with words, one or two punches say more that thousands of words. This case is one of those exceptions.

the outcome of the situation validates the brawl. Taiga and Sumire are not trying to damage phisycally, its odd, but they are communicating her most inner feelings, the ones who can said it easily.

[manga852]

best cat fight in history

[Freya]

Wow!

Total turn around for thiss episode.Takasu going emo was pretty obvious...but awesome fight. Kanou vs Taiga. Epic.

What did Ami mean "Are your feelings of guilt gone?"

[Caster13]

There's this latent, tacit belief among many people that one should be true to one's own feelings. That if one embraces their feelings, they can find the courage and the drive to do whatever it is those feelings push them towards. That if one accepts their feelings, it'll reflect out onto the world and change it in some way.

I think this episode is all about coping with the reality that one's feelings isn't enough to fix the problems in the world. For both Kitamura and Sumire, knowing that they love one another doesn't change the fact that there's now an ocean and many, many kilometers between them, and that the distance could continue to grow.

Perhaps unexpectedly, I think it's Minorin that's being struck the most by this lesson. After seeing Sumire and Kitamura pour their hearts out and knowing that they won't be together, she suddenly has a reason to keep her feelings for Ryuuji kept quiet inside. She just witnessed a situation where others' feelings did not lead to fruition and she can easily expect the same can happen to her own.

Wise and perceptive Ami nudges Minori on: "Are your feelings of guilt gone?" They should be, is what I think Ami is trying to imply. Don't be feel guilty over something that's not lead to anything yet--if it even will.

[frubam]

We finally get to see Kitamura's character and reasoning. I still hate him though. It disgusts me to think that Sumire and Taiga were fighting because of a guy like him. The idea of the fight itself though, between[what i consider] the two toughest girls in the school, is excellent!

I'm also interested in what Ami said and how, both Ami and Minorin, looked after that at the end of the ep. Should be interesting to see how that develops.

[Freya]

Still no AmixRyuugi shipping. :[

[qwerty_]

Originally Posted by Freya

Still no AmixRyuugi shipping. :[

Thank God - shipping isn't a good thing.

[Fran~]

Originally Posted by qwerty_

Thank God - shipping isn't a good thing.

Quote of the century!!!!

[typhonsentra]

Come on, it can be fun to speculate on the relationships, so long as it doesn't devolve into a knife fight.... which it almost always does.

[Fran~]

Originally Posted by typhonsentra

Come on, it can be fun to speculate on the relationships, so long as it doesn't devolve into a knife fight.... which it almost always does.

no further questions your honor...

[Nukerjsr]

Finally, subs. When I noticed that there were 3 full pages of this before subs, then it must of really of been a great episode. And it was.

My opinion with the whole Kitamura/Sumire romance was that it was handled pretty good. I may of really liked it just because of how Taiga and Ryuuji got involved with the two of them and how it elevated into something rather big. But there are still a few things that feel odd.

While I see where Sumire was coming from with why she denied Kitamura's rejection, it feels like she isn't considering the possibilities. Like, couldn't she of accepted him and just told him to stay as student president? I know that's a bit too cliche, but I do feel for Kitamura because it was such a harsh breakup. But I suppose that's what makes the fight between her and Taiga so great.

And I didn't like either how Kitamura dyes his hair and fixes his attitude, and right afterwards: "Oh, I'm very sad again." It feels like it would of been better if that scene were just cut sense it would of intensified the moments afterward.

But other than that, it was a really good episode. It even had some funny moments like Taiga campaigning and the intro. I think some more stuff from Ami would of made the episode nice, but it's pretty good where it is now. I'm just curious on if the next few arcs will give attention to Minori or Ryuuji. (Or both)

[Kinku]

I thought Ami said that to Minori at the end about guilt thing because of the picture of Kitamura and taiga in Taiga wallet. Maybe Minori probably now feel less guilty if she know there isnt anything going on between Taiga and Ryuuji. It would make sense how Ami reacted after she told Minori cause she knows Ryuuji has a thing for Minori.

[Traece]

Originally Posted by typhonsentra

Come on, it can be fun to speculate on the relationships, so long as it doesn't devolve into a knife fight.... which it almost always does.

I'll be sure to bring a gun next time I get involved then.

Personally, I really liked this episode and maybe more than all of the others. It was nice to see something come out of the whole relationship between Kanou and Kitamura. Especially in the most recent episodes it's been obvious that there was something going on there, at least for Kitamura. Plus, it's always a treat to see a little side relationship being confirmed. Though it would've been ever better if Kitamura and Kanou had some screen time together before she went away. But oh well...

Taiga sure is good at sabotaging herself though. I don't see Kitamura and her getting together any time soon, considering he's been revealed to be in love with a girl that shares those feelings to any degree which is more than enough to put a train wreck into the possibility of Taiga getting with Kitamura. If she manages to pull it off somehow, Kitamura would have to be pretty shallow, or something. I'll admit, the sweetest part of the episode might've actually been the end. There's something great about Taiga being able to say something nice to Kanou after all this time, between yelling at her in front of a crowd of students and getting in a full-blown session of combat with her. Taiga is too clever for her own good, I'm thinking.

For me I'd guess the attention might shift more towards Takasu, Minorin, and Ami at this point. It seems like the most likely thing to happen. But then I don't know until it happens. =)

As far as Ami telling Minorin to not feel guilty, I think it's probably because of Minorin's reaction to what the girl said when she opened the ID. To my knowledge, Minorin is never informed of Taiga's love for Kitamura at any time in the series. Just as well, she certainly doesn't know the contents of Taiga's ID. Ami is pretty observant, I think she'd be able to figure out what Minorin thinks pretty easily. I'm willing to bet that's the reason Ami says to that her. But I don't doubt that we'll be told exactly why she said that in a later episode anyhow. Although alternatively someone earlier mentioned that the things Taiga and Kanou were saying might have struck her just as much as it did Kanou.

Actually another thought came to mind... Kitamura 'should' be out of the love picture at this point, and that would only make sense. So considering that, who do we have left? Takasu has Ami and Minorin that have feelings for him (though Ami's feelings might be up for question, I think it's pretty obvious that she does. There's no reason for her not to). If you think of it this way, wouldn't it make sense for Ami to say something that makes Minorin think that Taiga is in love with Ryuuji so she'll back off? I only say this because even though Ami has become considerably nicer, she's still a 'mature' girl who would likely be willing to fight for one of the few guys her age that doesn't flock to her because she's a celebrity, and actually has an impact on her life.

[frubam]

Originally Posted by Traece

For me I'd guess the attention might shift more towards Takasu, Minorin, and Ami at this point. It seems like the most likely thing to happen. But then I don't know until it happens. =)

That's what I'm hoping. Taiga's been less violent, more mature, and more relaxed around Ryuuji these days, so giving her a chance to support Ryuuji in this manner would be interesting to watch.

[wistfulloner]

So is it safe to assume that Sumire really likes and cares for Kitamura?

[typhonsentra]

She was crying pretty heavily over it, so yeah.

[Kyosato]

Originally Posted by Kinku

I thought Ami said that to Minori at the end about guilt thing because of the picture of Kitamura and taiga in Taiga wallet. Maybe Minori probably now feel less guilty if she know there isnt anything going on between Taiga and Ryuuji. It would make sense how Ami reacted after she told Minori cause she knows Ryuuji has a thing for Minori.

That's what i think too.
I think Ami knows that Minori is starting to like Takasu, and that she felt guilty because she thought Taiga already liked him. Remember episode 13, when Ami talked to Minori ? Seeing Minori thinking about the photos (probably she learned Takasu took the photo where they were holding hands), she came to tell that with her job, she didn't care who had her picture or what they were thinking, they were just picture (= she shouldn't think too much about the reasons why Takasu bought this picture). She probably feared Takasu and her could start to like each other, and thinking Taiga already has some sort of love relationship, she felt guilty for liking her best friend's lover.
But now, after seeing the photo Taiga kept in her wallet, and realising she loved Kitamura and not Takasu, she was probably relieved (but don't forget Ami stopped the girls from seeing the photo under this one).

Originally Posted by Traece

Just as well, she certainly doesn't know the contents of Taiga's ID.

But I think she guessed it after hearing what the 2 girls said, it was pretty explicit.