AnimeSuki Forums

Phibrizzo · 2011-11-11, 00:22

Playing around in another forum I made a characer which I find broken as hell for a esper yet fits with the power of statis, which allow along a few things simulate absolute zero, time stop, indestructible, manipulation of perception, etc.

Fun cause I think its 1 of the few espers I can come up without to much crack that can negate Accelerator power.

Inept Forum User · 2011-12-09, 19:22

Do you think a certain degree of body reinforcement would be able to produce a limited magician-esper hybrid?

Cosmic Eagle · 2011-12-09, 19:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by shmaster

One thing, such ability does not exist in To Aru verse so far, so there is no way to define it.
There is no example that can tell us whether unrefined, pure life energy can be used to perform any type of abilities or not,

Which come to think of it....both AIM and mana are life energy in a sense....

Only Telesma is utterly alien

Marcus H. · 2011-12-09, 19:59

Quote:

Do you think a certain degree of body reinforcement would be able to produce a limited magician-esper hybrid?

Turning a person into a cyborg is supposed to allow magician-esper hybrids because of their mechanical parts.

Mr.Kyon · 2011-12-09, 20:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

Turning a person into a cyborg is supposed to allow magician-esper hybrids because of their mechanical parts.

Unless they truly are 100% mechanical, they'll feel the backlash. And for an esper, the brain is necessary and biological. So no.

The best you can do is learn to walk the thin line like Accelerator is doing.

leukrota · 2012-01-14, 08:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by judasmartel

If you mean by controlling entropy the power to alter an object's temperature at will, i.e., she can burn or freeze her targets without the elemental baggage, yeah, I'll buy that.

I don't mean altering an object's temperature directly, though stopping heat transfer could be a consequence of manipulating the entropy.

There could be many speculations on what entropy control could achieve... But let me lay one concept first.

Schrödinger's thought experiment about what is life addresses the concept of negative entropy as the mechanism with which life defies death and decay.

Adding this idea to the regular concepts of entropy, manipulating it could manifest powers from keeping an object's temperature stable (by making it isoentropic), to creating an impenetrable barrier for the user or someone else (by isolating the entropy transfer), to attaining eternal youth (again, isoentropy of the user), to reversing injuries or even death at the peak of the ability (by reversing the entropy of the subject.)

Well, that's how I'd go constructing that power... fiction has the advantage of not needing to make perfect sense.

Sumeragi · 2012-01-14, 08:40

Just a thought: Would the ability to control the Five Elements be considered a Multi Skill?

leukrota · 2012-01-14, 08:41

I would think so, yeah.

EDIT: Returning to that subject (god, I'm bored) I guess it would depend on how exactly the user controls the elements... though I can't think of a single ability that could allow someone to control all the elements...

Xenio · 2012-01-14, 10:32

did there even a dual skill yet?

Spoiler for Railgun:

leukrota · 2012-01-14, 10:38

Dual skill is supposed to be theoretically impossible for AC Espers...

But a Gemstone might not have that restriction, not that there's any with confirmed multi skills yet.

ellifeedn · 2012-01-14, 11:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by leukrota

I would think so, yeah.

EDIT: Returning to that subject (god, I'm bored) I guess it would depend on how exactly the user controls the elements... though I can't think of a single ability that could allow someone to control all the elements...

If a person had the power to control heat (I think it's heat. It's been years since I took a science class, so my memory may not be that good), fire is a given, but they can also create currents in the air (warm air mixing with cooler air), hence controlling air. Next is water; with water you add heat to it until it turns into steam, move it around with air currents, and then remove the heat turning it into ice. Earth... I'll think of something later.

Does this satisfy you?

Xenio · 2012-01-14, 11:31

wait, i'm just remeber reading about the 7th Lv5 Sogiita Gunha on wiki, he is ranked 7th not because he the weakest, it because no one understands his power. judge by his ability, this guy seem to be a multiskill

Quote:

Explosion - Create a strange explosion around him that throws people away
Indifference to pain and Invulnerability - Not wholy but feels prickly pain when hurt and will not receive any serious damage when he is shot or pierced in the heart. He also is able to catch Mikoto's 30% Railgun shot with the teeth.
Enhanced Speed - He can perform physical combat at twice the speed of sound.
Pseudo-teleport - He is also capable of "teleport", displayed in a little fight against Kuroko.
Forcefield Projection - Cover his whole body with unknown forcefield.
Attack Crash - Gunha's sure-kill technique. He yells 'Amazing Punch' ( すごいパーンチ , Sugoi Punch ) when executing it.
Aurora Guard - He can bring up a part of Earth's electromagnetism field by using "telekinesis" to act as a shield against Mikoto Misaka's most powerful lighting strike. Stated to be impossible by physics and cannot possibly be the explanation in the light novels, so the exact mechanics of how he can stop Mikoto's electric attacks is unknown.

Apache Thunder · 2012-01-14, 15:54

Wait a minute...I thought Entropy was defined as the natural chaos of order in the universe? Aka things in the universe tend to become less organized as time progresses (example, Uranium decaying into smaller elements or a glass bottle braking into smaller pieces). Negative Entropy would mean something that was less organized would become more organized. If Entropy can be controlled, then in theory one could reverse time and reverse the "cause and effect" relationship that time has on the universe. Aka, have an effect occur before the cause. One possible effect this would have would have something that was dead become living again.

I don't recall Entropy involving only heat....unless the author decided that entropy was something else.

EDIT: Now that I looked it up. Entropy is different in "Information Theory" then it is in the laws of thermodynamics...Would be interesting if an Esper had control of the information theory side of Entropy which would bring about all kinds of weird things happening in the To Aru verse. AIM powers involve calculations and manipulation of information. It's not outside the realm of possibility that this alternate version of Entropy can be a possible esper power since it's premise involves information at it's heart and that's one of the core properties that AIM fields work on. "Shannon entropy" is the term for this version of Entropy. If an esper had such an ability, he/she could then reverse what ever destructive effects magic would have on them. Destruction is entropy at work anyway.

Also, what's to prevent Misaka or any other electromaster type Esper from producing very powerfull magnetic fields? I recently learned about "Magnetars" which are Neutron Stars with very powerfull magnetic fields. So powerfull in fact that if a person got too close to it (even as far out as 1000km), the fields would begin to effect the water molecules in the body and rip them apart. If a magnetic field becomes strong enough it can effect objects that don't normally respond to magnetic fields. (something along the lines of diamagnetism)

There are superconducting electro-magnets that have been able to levitate frogs. So an Esper like Misaka could easily produce a power field and levitate frogs just as easily. Perhaps move on to levitating her self via this property?

Sumeragi · 2012-01-14, 18:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apache Thunder

Also, what's to prevent Misaka or any other electromaster type Esper from producing very powerfull magnetic fields? I recently learned about "Magnetars" which are Neutron Stars with very powerfull magnetic fields. So powerfull in fact that if a person got too close to it (even as far out as 1000km), the fields would begin to effect the water molecules in the body and rip them apart. If a magnetic field becomes strong enough it can effect objects that don't normally respond to magnetic fields. (something along the lines of diamagnetism)

There are superconducting electro-magnets that have been able to levitate frogs. So an Esper like Misaka could easily produce a power field and levitate frogs just as easily. Perhaps move on to levitating her self via this property?

Her total output of 1 gigavolt (1 billion volts). That's about the total output of a lightening, and certainly not enough to be able to generate the kind of magnetic field for what you are proposing. She can use static electricity from interactions between large amount of atomised water vapor to fly, but those are in certain conditions. Finally, she doesn't have infinite energy.

judasmartel · 2012-01-14, 21:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by leukrota

I don't mean altering an object's temperature directly, though stopping heat transfer could be a consequence of manipulating the entropy.

There could be many speculations on what entropy control could achieve... But let me lay one concept first.

Schrödinger's thought experiment about what is life addresses the concept of negative entropy as the mechanism with which life defies death and decay.

Adding this idea to the regular concepts of entropy, manipulating it could manifest powers from keeping an object's temperature stable (by making it isoentropic), to creating an impenetrable barrier for the user or someone else (by isolating the entropy transfer), to attaining eternal youth (again, isoentropy of the user), to reversing injuries or even death at the peak of the ability (by reversing the entropy of the subject.)

Well, that's how I'd go constructing that power... fiction has the advantage of not needing to make perfect sense.

So you mean, Uiharu can become a Medic-type Esper instead of an Elemental-type one? I mean, those powers are very similar to that of a Full Support Class.

leukrota · 2012-01-15, 01:22

^ Yeah, she could very well function that way... Now that you make me think about it, I say it would fit Uiharu's personality, as it's suited for support.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apache Thunder

Wait a minute...I thought Entropy was defined as the natural chaos of order in the universe? Aka things in the universe tend to become less organized as time progresses (example, Uranium decaying into smaller elements or a glass bottle braking into smaller pieces). Negative Entropy would mean something that was less organized would become more organized. If Entropy can be controlled, then in theory one could reverse time and reverse the "cause and effect" relationship that time has on the universe. Aka, have an effect occur before the cause. One possible effect this would have would have something that was dead become living again.

Yeah, you got it right. The universe tends to become less organized, but if you see living things, they go the other way, with evolution and symbiosis they've gone from simple single cell beings to complex multi systemic organisms (and some would include complex communities that somehow resemble living being.)

Not only that, but living by itself means avoiding the decay caused by entropy.

Schrödinger stipulated that these phenomenons are possible with negative entropy, but in order to comply with the second law of thermodynamics, this is accomplished by exporting the organism's entropy to the exterior, so that the overall entropy never really diminishes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apache Thunder

EDIT: Now that I looked it up. Entropy is different in "Information Theory" then it is in the laws of thermodynamics...Would be interesting if an Esper had control of the information theory side of Entropy which would bring about all kinds of weird things happening in the To Aru verse. AIM powers involve calculations and manipulation of information. It's not outside the realm of possibility that this alternate version of Entropy can be a possible esper power since it's premise involves information at it's heart and that's one of the core properties that AIM fields work on. "Shannon entropy" is the term for this version of Entropy. If an esper had such an ability, he/she could then reverse what ever destructive effects magic would have on them. Destruction is entropy at work anyway.

I had forgotten completely about that conceptual application of entropy to information theory.

It's quite interesting too. This theory also speaks of entropy as unpredictability. Another wild application of manipulating this type of entropy could mean the manipulation of probabilities themselves... that would be a seriously powerful ability.

It would be cool to see an Esper like that, albeit not too high on level so it's not a game breaker.

Although the ability you talk about would also be very interesting and useful in the magic-science war.

Apache Thunder · 2012-01-15, 03:12

Another potentially dangerous ability would be any ability involving anti-matter. If an esper could create/convert any significant quantity of matter to anti-matter (and by significant I mean something as small as a grain of salt) then he/she could very easily unleash utter annihilation to any area. Anti-matter only needs normal matter to collide and annihilate with to create pure energy. The resulting burst of gamma rays and other forms of energy in massive quantities means entire cities and even large land masses would be laid to waste. Think about it, all one would have to do is simply flip the polority of the protons/neutrons in atoms and thus create anti-matter. Doing something like this wouldn't be too complicated in the To Aru verse. The only setback would be it may take awhile to amass enough anti-matter (if such esper can't make it quickly) and then the question of containing it during such process to prevent premature loss of the antimatter via reactions from normal matter. God help us if Misaka gets a hold of positrons. They pretty much act like electrons, so she can control them just as well.

That and anything involving a significant alteration of gravity/mass of an object that would be enough to create a black hole. Even a tiny one can be let loose and if it falls into the earth, it would eventually consume the entire planet from the inside out and and engulf the Earth and pretty much end everything.

Aleister needs to be careful with giving adolescents powers like this. At some point someone's going to accidentally blow him self up with anti-matter reactions or other forms of exotic matter and suddenly Academy City will be nothing but a massive crater in the ground (best case scenario) or worse case scenario would leave the moon will be left orbiting an invisible mass with the sun suddenly having it's atmosphere slowly torn away.

Passing aliens will pass by and wonder how the hell that black hole got there in the middle of a mostly intact solar system. Assuming the total gravity of the Earth is not changed (just concentrated to form a black hole), then nearby planets would not be disturbed. Though a black hole would evaporate much quicker at such sizes.

Well I assume his windowless building might survive, but he'll be mighty lonely afterwords especially if he's stuck at the pit of a black hole for all eternity.... :P

Sumeragi · 2012-01-15, 03:59

I doubt anyone would be able to do such a thing short of achieving SYSTEM.

judasmartel · 2012-01-21, 03:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by giorno

esper powers work on modern science, that's why we haven't seen classic elemental espers(except for water, which is an exception among the 4, being an actual substance and all), and probably never will...it simply wouldn't make sense...

Of the four classical elements, Fire, Wind, and Water have already been used.

Fire - the bank robber leader in Railgun
Wind - Kongou and Saten (under Level Upper)
Water - Those Two Girls at Tokiwadai

Quote:

Originally Posted by MK Wikia

Cryomasters have the ability to control the moisture in the air around their bodies and cool it into ice, as such, they have the ability to control ice.

What do you take of that?

Chaos2Frozen · 2012-01-21, 04:06

Quote:

Any ordinary person will think…that this is a game included in this sporting event, but in Academy City, more than half of the students are people who discovered their powers, called espers. There are abilities that may include fire, water, earth, wind, lightning, ice, and many more, even including some that allows espers to fly. In a battle of around 100 espers fighting, the tense atmosphere is no trivial matter.

This was taken from the Narrative during the Daihaisensai arc. If you need an example of an 'Earth' type Esper, look no further than the nameless students that were firing sand bullets.

If you want my opinion, there are three fundamental types of Esper abilities:

Energy Control (Manipulating Energy) -> Heat, Electromagnetism, Radiation(?) etc
Matter Control (Manipulating Matter) -> Wind, Water, Sand, Nitrogen etc
Space Control (Violating concept of Space/Distance) -> Telekinesis , Teleportation, Telepathy etc

To be honest it's more accurate to call the last one 'Mental Control', but I decided on 'Space Control' because it's more aesthetic

After all, Stephen Hawking once said that the three ingredients required to cook up a Universe are Matter, Energy, and Space

EDIT:
I'm sure somewhere out there is an Esper with superhuman strength or speed, so I guess there's a fourth fundamental type?

P.S - Yes, I'm well aware of special cases, but that's why they're not fundamental right?

2012-01-14, 08:41	Link #748
leukrota Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011	I would think so, yeah. EDIT: Returning to that subject (god, I'm bored) I guess it would depend on how exactly the user controls the elements... though I can't think of a single ability that could allow someone to control all the elements... Last edited by leukrota; 2012-01-14 at 10:33.

2012-01-14, 10:32	Link #749
Xenio Flower Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Somewhere in Asia	did there even a dual skill yet? Spoiler for Railgun: Harumi Kiyama not count since she hacked using Level Upper Network

2012-01-14, 15:54	Link #753
Apache Thunder Interdimensional Spy Join Date: May 2008 Location: Levelland, Texas USA	Wait a minute...I thought Entropy was defined as the natural chaos of order in the universe? Aka things in the universe tend to become less organized as time progresses (example, Uranium decaying into smaller elements or a glass bottle braking into smaller pieces). Negative Entropy would mean something that was less organized would become more organized. If Entropy can be controlled, then in theory one could reverse time and reverse the "cause and effect" relationship that time has on the universe. Aka, have an effect occur before the cause. One possible effect this would have would have something that was dead become living again. I don't recall Entropy involving only heat....unless the author decided that entropy was something else. EDIT: Now that I looked it up. Entropy is different in "Information Theory" then it is in the laws of thermodynamics...Would be interesting if an Esper had control of the information theory side of Entropy which would bring about all kinds of weird things happening in the To Aru verse. AIM powers involve calculations and manipulation of information. It's not outside the realm of possibility that this alternate version of Entropy can be a possible esper power since it's premise involves information at it's heart and that's one of the core properties that AIM fields work on. "Shannon entropy" is the term for this version of Entropy. If an esper had such an ability, he/she could then reverse what ever destructive effects magic would have on them. Destruction is entropy at work anyway. Also, what's to prevent Misaka or any other electromaster type Esper from producing very powerfull magnetic fields? I recently learned about "Magnetars" which are Neutron Stars with very powerfull magnetic fields. So powerfull in fact that if a person got too close to it (even as far out as 1000km), the fields would begin to effect the water molecules in the body and rip them apart. If a magnetic field becomes strong enough it can effect objects that don't normally respond to magnetic fields. (something along the lines of diamagnetism) There are superconducting electro-magnets that have been able to levitate frogs. So an Esper like Misaka could easily produce a power field and levitate frogs just as easily. Perhaps move on to levitating her self via this property? Last edited by Apache Thunder; 2012-01-14 at 16:18.

2012-01-15, 03:12	Link #757
Apache Thunder Interdimensional Spy Join Date: May 2008 Location: Levelland, Texas USA	Another potentially dangerous ability would be any ability involving anti-matter. If an esper could create/convert any significant quantity of matter to anti-matter (and by significant I mean something as small as a grain of salt) then he/she could very easily unleash utter annihilation to any area. Anti-matter only needs normal matter to collide and annihilate with to create pure energy. The resulting burst of gamma rays and other forms of energy in massive quantities means entire cities and even large land masses would be laid to waste. Think about it, all one would have to do is simply flip the polority of the protons/neutrons in atoms and thus create anti-matter. Doing something like this wouldn't be too complicated in the To Aru verse. The only setback would be it may take awhile to amass enough anti-matter (if such esper can't make it quickly) and then the question of containing it during such process to prevent premature loss of the antimatter via reactions from normal matter. God help us if Misaka gets a hold of positrons. They pretty much act like electrons, so she can control them just as well. That and anything involving a significant alteration of gravity/mass of an object that would be enough to create a black hole. Even a tiny one can be let loose and if it falls into the earth, it would eventually consume the entire planet from the inside out and and engulf the Earth and pretty much end everything. Aleister needs to be careful with giving adolescents powers like this. At some point someone's going to accidentally blow him self up with anti-matter reactions or other forms of exotic matter and suddenly Academy City will be nothing but a massive crater in the ground (best case scenario) or worse case scenario would leave the moon will be left orbiting an invisible mass with the sun suddenly having it's atmosphere slowly torn away. Passing aliens will pass by and wonder how the hell that black hole got there in the middle of a mostly intact solar system. Assuming the total gravity of the Earth is not changed (just concentrated to form a black hole), then nearby planets would not be disturbed. Though a black hole would evaporate much quicker at such sizes. Well I assume his windowless building might survive, but he'll be mighty lonely afterwords especially if he's stuck at the pit of a black hole for all eternity.... :P Last edited by Apache Thunder; 2012-01-15 at 03:24.

2011-11-11, 00:22	Link #741
Phibrizzo Honos628 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Mexico	Playing around in another forum I made a characer which I find broken as hell for a esper yet fits with the power of statis, which allow along a few things simulate absolute zero, time stop, indestructible, manipulation of perception, etc. Fun cause I think its 1 of the few espers I can come up without to much crack that can negate Accelerator power.

2011-12-09, 19:22	Link #742
Inept Forum User Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010	Do you think a certain degree of body reinforcement would be able to produce a limited magician-esper hybrid?

2012-01-14, 08:40	Link #747
Sumeragi Banned Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Dai Korai Teikoku	Just a thought: Would the ability to control the Five Elements be considered a Multi Skill?

2012-01-14, 10:38	Link #750
leukrota Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011	Dual skill is supposed to be theoretically impossible for AC Espers... But a Gemstone might not have that restriction, not that there's any with confirmed multi skills yet.

2012-01-15, 03:59	Link #758
Sumeragi Banned Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Dai Korai Teikoku	I doubt anyone would be able to do such a thing short of achieving SYSTEM.