AnimeSuki Forums

TooPurePureBoy · 2013-01-27, 17:19

To me that's the coolest thing about Nen in the HunterXHunter universe. You can pretty much come up with any ability you want but in the end the only thing that allows for a strong ability is the restrictions you decide to put upon it. It's all about the Nen users imagination and ability to see down the road so that they choose the right restrictions that allow for a strong hatsu but also a flexible one that works in all situations.

Dengar · 2013-01-28, 16:33

On another community I used to visit we used to have a "create your own hatsu" thread. I kinda miss that.

Clarste · 2013-01-28, 16:48

Well, the problem with that is that while the series does a pretty good job of making it feel like there are limitations and powerful abilities need to be balanced by powerful restrictions, in the end there's no hard and fast rule for it. The only limits that characters have are the limits Togashi gives them. We never see, for example, an ability that someone creates that ends up too weak to use because it has no restrictions. And even abilities without restrictions get a free pass if the character is simply powerful enough in Nen. I mean, what's the maximum force that can be exerted by Hisoka's Bungie Gum? I have no idea, and neither does anyone else. So no matter how much detail Togashi puts into the system, none of it actually limits what he can write.

So in order for fans to come up with reasonable powers, we'd just have to completely guess how many "nen points" any given restriction or ability would cost. There's no rulebook, so it's all up to GM discretion, and there is no GM.

Dengar · 2013-01-28, 17:17

Nah there were a few rules to the game. For example, no specialist abilities (specialist makes things needlessly complicated, as well as making literally anything possible).

As for how strong an ability can be, that depends on the strength of the user doesn't it? All people did was think up original powers and describe them.

zeniselv · 2013-01-29, 01:31

ailities cannot be anything you cant they are reatricted by your own distribution,but most huntesrs do come with an ability that satisfies something that is accord thwir abilities, but at this point there is nothing i can go back farthet than this.

Clarste · 2013-01-29, 01:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dengar

As for how strong an ability can be, that depends on the strength of the user doesn't it? All people did was think up original powers and describe them.

The problem is that "strength" plays directly into the limitations, so by removing the element of strength the limitations become meaningless or arbitrary. I mean, we can easily imagine an ability exactly like Genthru's (attach time bombs to people) that didn't require him to explain the escape clause, couldn't we? Apparently he needs that to make them lethal at that range and number, but why would our hypothetical forum Bomber need to come up with those limitations? It comes closer to "anything you feel like", which is exactly the reason you give for excluding Specialization.

Incidentally, Genthru would probably be an Emitter, right?

Dengar · 2013-01-29, 02:37

zeniselv, Greed Island itself is reason enough to believe anything is possible with enough effort.

Clarste, You're too skeptic, the game worked, other posters would judge whether or not the ability made sense, whether it was well designed, and whether it followed the rules. Gave way to some interesting abilities, although it was such a long time ago I forgot.

Anh_Minh · 2013-01-29, 02:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clarste

The problem is that "strength" plays directly into the limitations, so by removing the element of strength the limitations become meaningless or arbitrary. I mean, we can easily imagine an ability exactly like Genthru's (attach time bombs to people) that didn't require him to explain the escape clause, couldn't we? Apparently he needs that to make them lethal at that range and number, but why would our hypothetical forum Bomber need to come up with those limitations? It comes closer to "anything you feel like", which is exactly the reason you give for excluding Specialization.

Incidentally, Genthru would probably be an Emitter, right?

Countdown's at least Materialization and Emission, but I don't think it's a good indicator of what he is, because of the conditions. They're strong enough to make him overcome whatever natural bend he has.

It's better to look at Little Flower, his usual go-to ability. Transformation, maybe?

Clarste · 2013-01-29, 03:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Countdown's at least Materialization and Emission, but I don't think it's a good indicator of what he is, because of the conditions. They're strong enough to make him overcome whatever natural bend he has.

It's better to look at Little Flower, his usual go-to ability. Transformation, maybe?

I don't think the conditions are strong enough to keep the bombs ticking halfway across the world (as implied by leaving Greed Island) without some talent in Emission. Of course, the main problem is that Materialization and Emission are on opposite sides of the chart.

Honestly though, I think you could completely cut out Materialization though. This hasn't really been shown much in the anime yet, but it's possible for non-Materialization nen to produce non-material "objects" that don't really follow physical laws but have a shape and an appearance (I think the main difference would be that people with no awareness of nen at all can still see materialized objects, because they're real in a different sense). I mean, if the bombs were materialized then they could theoretically be removed (or if they have super-stickiness as a trait then the clothes they're stuck to could be removed). Instead, they're stuck to the "person" and as far as we see no one even tries to take them off or cut their arm off in desperation or anything. We can assume that they're nen-objects attached to the aura of the target. And in fact are controlled by the person they're stuck to, through their heartbeat (negating the need for any Manipulation).

Given that, and the Transformation-esque nature of making your aura explosive, I actually now wonder if he's Reinforcement (leaning towards Emission). As Wing explained way back and Biscuit recently showed us a graph of, there isn't much merit in using categories more than one step away, but on the other hand you should "minor" in those categories to optimize your growth. This is partly why Transmuters like Hisoka and the Zoldicks are also so strong physically and why Reinforcers like Nobunaga use Transmutation-esque techniques like En. Assumign Genthru is an intelligent nen-user who knew all this stuff when coming up with his ability, it would make sense for a Reinforcer to come up with something that requires both Emission and Transmutation but ultimately just makes a big bang.

Dengar · 2013-01-29, 11:17

If I recall correctly, Genthru is an emitter by nature, which is indeed on the opposite end of the spectrum of conjurers. So while a part of his ability involves something he's not naturally inclined to, the bulk of his ability involves emitter-type nen (explosions). Just the actual bombs which are materialised when he touches his target (and subsequently made invisible with in) involve a conjurer-type nen.

HybridBloodsZak · 2013-02-03, 04:03

A really good episode this week! Can't wait to see more of Bomber and Razor

ookamigirl · 2013-02-03, 07:15

So the phantom troupe arrive on Greed Island by boat.
Looks like it really is a real island.
I like that Razor guy. He seems very strong.
The spell card he used was pretty cool too.
Gon still training. Killua went back to the real world.
So they know about the Bomber now as well.

Dengar · 2013-02-03, 09:08

We get a first peek of Razor, one of the Game Masters. Apparently he deals with aspects of the game that involve Emitter type nen. Which means he probably invented most of the spell cards that deal with transportation, including the Eliminate card, which can only be used by a Game Master.

We also learn that the plays the part of a Boss in the game itself.

Then there's the part I've been waiting for. Gon giving shape to his special ability. Yeah it's childish, and pretty basic, but it's also very amusing, and fits Gon's character like a glove. Going with the three hands of rock-paper-scissors, "Rock" is a strong punch attack, "Scissors" is a slashing attack, and "Paper" is a ranged attack, building on Gon's primary and secondary abilities as an enhancer, transmuter, and emitter, respectively.

Just a question for people here. Would referring to the technique by name be considered a spoiler, considering that we now know what it does?

Guardian Enzo · 2013-02-03, 09:15

Madhouse really can't resist trolling the fujoshi in the omakes, can they?

Arkeus · 2013-02-03, 09:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clarste

Spoiler:

No, no, it isn't possible. I have no clue how the fandom began to think it was possible to materialize objects without using materialization, but it isn't and has never been hinted at.As for Genthru,

Spoiler:

.

Furthermore, you can see in the anime the trace of the explosion of little flower on his own hand(and in the manga, we know there is powder and it's a materialized ability).

Genthru being able to use Bombs that are emitted from far, far away is simple: that's what all his conditions are about. Also, keep in mind that Kurapika can do the same- once the object is 'placed', he no longer needs the red eyes to keep it in place.

Dengar · 2013-02-03, 10:08

Oh, he's a conjurer? For some reason I though he was an emitter.

Little Flower can just as easily be a conjurer ability though, if you conjure an exploding substance, so there's no contradiction there. The nen system is just flexible like that. You can oftentimes achieve similar results by completely different means.

Conditions allow for conjured objects to persist near-indefinitely even when the conjurer is on the other side of the world. This literally happens all the time. In this case, the condition is a very transparent and possible escape-clause. In any time in fiction, for as old as fiction exists, escape-clauses are often used in powerful spells for the express purpose of making them as powerful as they are (save for the escape-clause).

Arkeus · 2013-02-03, 11:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dengar

Conditions allow for conjured objects to persist near-indefinitely even when the conjurer is on the other side of the world. This literally happens all the time. In this case, the condition is a very transparent and possible escape-clause. In any time in fiction, for as old as fiction exists, escape-clauses are often used in powerful spells for the express purpose of making them as powerful as they are (save for the escape-clause).

Yeah, CountDown not only has LOTS of conditions to be put in place, but it ALSO has an escape clause that is actually damn easy if you are anything close to Genthru's own level.

Countdown is, truly, a blackmail ability.

kakakka · 2013-02-03, 12:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

Madhouse really can't resist trolling the fujoshi in the omakes, can they?

Just look at the opening before it ends. Gon looking at a ring besides Killua.

Anh_Minh · 2013-02-03, 12:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkeus

Yeah, CountDown not only has LOTS of conditions to be put in place, but it ALSO has an escape clause that is actually damn easy if you are anything close to Genthru's own level.

Not necessarily that easy, if he focuses on running away.

I wonder if explaining things over the phone would work?

ars89 · 2013-02-03, 14:45

Nice Gon is getting close to creating his special attacks now. Good thing they showed Killua leaving and meeting up with those guys that help get you to the exam location. Was wondering if Killua would ever became hunter and glad they showed him going to retake the exam. That guy that removed the bomb had a cool ability.

2013-01-27, 17:19	Link #2361
TooPurePureBoy Socially Inept Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Retracing my steps.....	To me that's the coolest thing about Nen in the HunterXHunter universe. You can pretty much come up with any ability you want but in the end the only thing that allows for a strong ability is the restrictions you decide to put upon it. It's all about the Nen users imagination and ability to see down the road so that they choose the right restrictions that allow for a strong hatsu but also a flexible one that works in all situations. __________________ "Do what I do in every friendship and relationship, give 5%" - Ron Bennington

2013-01-29, 01:31	Link #2365
zeniselv Staring into your soul. Join Date: Oct 2010	ailities cannot be anything you cant they are reatricted by your own distribution,but most huntesrs do come with an ability that satisfies something that is accord thwir abilities, but at this point there is nothing i can go back farthet than this. __________________

2013-02-03, 07:15	Link #2372
ookamigirl Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011	So the phantom troupe arrive on Greed Island by boat. Looks like it really is a real island. I like that Razor guy. He seems very strong. The spell card he used was pretty cool too. Gon still training. Killua went back to the real world. So they know about the Bomber now as well. __________________ My Blog --> ookami

2013-02-03, 14:45	Link #2380
ars89 One-Eyed Dragon Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: NJ, USA	Nice Gon is getting close to creating his special attacks now. Good thing they showed Killua leaving and meeting up with those guys that help get you to the exam location. Was wondering if Killua would ever became hunter and glad they showed him going to retake the exam. That guy that removed the bomb had a cool ability. __________________ My Anime List

2013-01-28, 16:33	Link #2362
Dengar Kamen Rider Muppeteer Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Unknown Age: 39	On another community I used to visit we used to have a "create your own hatsu" thread. I kinda miss that.

2013-01-28, 16:48	Link #2363
Clarste Human Join Date: Aug 2004 Age: 37	Well, the problem with that is that while the series does a pretty good job of making it feel like there are limitations and powerful abilities need to be balanced by powerful restrictions, in the end there's no hard and fast rule for it. The only limits that characters have are the limits Togashi gives them. We never see, for example, an ability that someone creates that ends up too weak to use because it has no restrictions. And even abilities without restrictions get a free pass if the character is simply powerful enough in Nen. I mean, what's the maximum force that can be exerted by Hisoka's Bungie Gum? I have no idea, and neither does anyone else. So no matter how much detail Togashi puts into the system, none of it actually limits what he can write. So in order for fans to come up with reasonable powers, we'd just have to completely guess how many "nen points" any given restriction or ability would cost. There's no rulebook, so it's all up to GM discretion, and there is no GM.

2013-01-28, 17:17	Link #2364
Dengar Kamen Rider Muppeteer Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Unknown Age: 39	Nah there were a few rules to the game. For example, no specialist abilities (specialist makes things needlessly complicated, as well as making literally anything possible). As for how strong an ability can be, that depends on the strength of the user doesn't it? All people did was think up original powers and describe them.

2013-01-29, 02:37	Link #2367
Dengar Kamen Rider Muppeteer Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Unknown Age: 39	zeniselv, Greed Island itself is reason enough to believe anything is possible with enough effort. Clarste, You're too skeptic, the game worked, other posters would judge whether or not the ability made sense, whether it was well designed, and whether it followed the rules. Gave way to some interesting abilities, although it was such a long time ago I forgot.

2013-01-29, 11:17	Link #2370
Dengar Kamen Rider Muppeteer Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Unknown Age: 39	If I recall correctly, Genthru is an emitter by nature, which is indeed on the opposite end of the spectrum of conjurers. So while a part of his ability involves something he's not naturally inclined to, the bulk of his ability involves emitter-type nen (explosions). Just the actual bombs which are materialised when he touches his target (and subsequently made invisible with in) involve a conjurer-type nen.

2013-02-03, 04:03	Link #2371
HybridBloodsZak Member Join Date: Aug 2012	A really good episode this week! Can't wait to see more of Bomber and Razor

2013-02-03, 09:08	Link #2373
Dengar Kamen Rider Muppeteer Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Unknown Age: 39	We get a first peek of Razor, one of the Game Masters. Apparently he deals with aspects of the game that involve Emitter type nen. Which means he probably invented most of the spell cards that deal with transportation, including the Eliminate card, which can only be used by a Game Master. We also learn that the plays the part of a Boss in the game itself. Then there's the part I've been waiting for. Gon giving shape to his special ability. Yeah it's childish, and pretty basic, but it's also very amusing, and fits Gon's character like a glove. Going with the three hands of rock-paper-scissors, "Rock" is a strong punch attack, "Scissors" is a slashing attack, and "Paper" is a ranged attack, building on Gon's primary and secondary abilities as an enhancer, transmuter, and emitter, respectively. Just a question for people here. Would referring to the technique by name be considered a spoiler, considering that we now know what it does?

2013-02-03, 10:08	Link #2376
Dengar Kamen Rider Muppeteer Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Unknown Age: 39	Oh, he's a conjurer? For some reason I though he was an emitter. Little Flower can just as easily be a conjurer ability though, if you conjure an exploding substance, so there's no contradiction there. The nen system is just flexible like that. You can oftentimes achieve similar results by completely different means. Conditions allow for conjured objects to persist near-indefinitely even when the conjurer is on the other side of the world. This literally happens all the time. In this case, the condition is a very transparent and possible escape-clause. In any time in fiction, for as old as fiction exists, escape-clauses are often used in powerful spells for the express purpose of making them as powerful as they are (save for the escape-clause).