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Seiryuu · 2013-09-01, 08:24

Not long ago, Sword Art Online got a lot of beef for how the heroine Asuna was portrayed in the second half. In the first half, she was a powerful warrior who saved the hero just like he on some occasions saved her; in the second, while the hero was released from the virtual world she was trapped in another one where the game master caged her and toyed with her as he saw fit. Many people thought that this portrayal was in some way wrong, as she should have been "stronger" and should have fought back herself. I myself didn't think it was wrong, because she did fight back, but the game master this time wasn't playing fair, he was using his control of the world to render escape or resistance impossible.
My question then is, are there any anime/manga that manage this transition from strong heroine to near-helpless Damsel-In-Distress well? I personally don't think the two are entirely mutually exclusive. I know of a few stories with a powerful girl who longs for a man who's actually stronger than her, or a guy who longs to be powerful enough to protect the girl he loves even when the enemy's too strong for her to handle. There's no weakness in a person being powerless against a particularly formidable foe, or in a girl wanting a 'hero' strong enough to save her even if such a foe should capture her. And there's no arrogance or presumption for a guy to want to be powerful enough to save the girl he loves from such foes. Aren't there any stories where the two concepts coexist peacefully?

Kotohono · 2013-09-01, 09:02

The romance part of it is questionable at best due to the ship wars the series has, but Toaru Kagaku no Railgun S's main arc does it fairly well.

Sackett · 2013-09-01, 10:44

Yes, A Certain Scientific Railgun S (second season) does this rather well.

Another good choice would be Crest of the Stars. Lafiel is strong in space, but earth bound she's a fish out of water. She's not helpless mind you, but she does need help from someone with more experience.

Plenty of others, but those are the ones I'd start with.

Tenzen12 · 2013-09-02, 21:19

I don't think Railgun count. First it was Misaka plan all along to let herself get killed and second when Touma interved she saved his ass with assistence of sisters so it can be said they beat antagonist together...

Anyway: Bleach, Mahou Sensei Negima, Full Metal Panic, Rosario Vampire (manga only).

Sackett · 2013-09-02, 21:21

It's pretty clear that Mikoto counts. It even had plenty of people complaining about how she needed her "prince" to come rescue her. Not to mention the whole bridge scene practically invokes the trope.

Tenzen12 · 2013-09-03, 03:47

If Touma didn't appear she would be able stop experiments anyway (yeah she would be dead, but whatever) and even if it was him who kicked accelerator ass he wouldn't be able if Misaka didn't come with plan to counter giant plazna ball.

But this isn't realy place to argue about that, so let's end it here.

Seiryuu · 2013-09-15, 04:33

OK, clearly Misaka somewhat fulfills the conditions, and in some ways does not. I myself am not entirely sure whether it fits, but it's an awesome series either way. Are there any others?

ninryu · 2013-09-15, 04:47

Do I even need to say how much I absolutely loathe this trope? (See Railgun S above)

Om Nerabdator · 2013-09-15, 05:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninryu

Do I even need to say how much I absolutely loathe this trope? (See Railgun S above)

sighs...im with you there, theres are so many strong girls who are like this, they start off really strong then they keep getting defeated or kidnapped for the rest of the series

Eragon · 2013-09-15, 08:46

Just one question : Why does it have to be a girl that is in need of rescuing ? Oh right, because we don't have enough of those -_-

Triple_R · 2013-09-15, 09:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

If Touma didn't appear she would be able stop experiments anyway (yeah she would be dead, but whatever)

I disagree. I don't think her plan would have worked. Frankly, it was a stupid plan, and it's good that Touma stopped Mikoto from doing something so incredibly foolish and self-destructive. Mikoto didn't need to be saved because she was weak in a physical sense, she needed to be saved because she frankly had snapped and needed to be brought back from an emotional abyss.

So yes, if "strong girl to damsel-in-distress" was ever done well, it was done well in Railgun S. It was certainly handled better there than in SAO, imo.

risingstar3110 · 2013-09-15, 09:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninryu

Do I even need to say how much I absolutely loathe this trope? (See Railgun S above)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Om Nerabdator

sighs...im with you there, theres are so many strong girls who are like this, they start off really strong then they keep getting defeated or kidnapped for the rest of the series

Same here.... i absolutely hate this trope...

But for the sake of on-topic, there would be some exceptions here:

most female characters in One piece probably in this trope, and it does kinda work, because Luffy would put on his ass-whopping mode. And that always is one of the best moment in One Piece
this one gonna drive you mad. Utena. Utena is a damsel-in-distress. But she and Anthy take their turn to be each other's knight in shining armour. Too old and too much symbolism for most of us here through, i supposed
oh, one more. Otoyomegatari (Bride Story) manga. Done so well that the character development felt incredibly natural

Jan-Poo · 2013-09-18, 07:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by risingstar3110

[*]this one gonna drive you mad. Utena. Utena is a damsel-in-distress. But she and Anthy take their turn to be each other's knight in shining armour. Too old and too much symbolism for most of us here through, i supposed

Well this might be my opinion but, while Utena does end up becoming a weak character near the end, if there is a redeeming quality about the ending (and there's a lot that made me want to scream) is the fact that in the end Anthy,

Spoiler for Utena ending:

If only this fact was portrayed better rather than those 20 rushed seconds...

scineram · 2013-09-18, 10:57

Kagome was chuugakusei. Sango was a trained warrior.

Seiryuu · 2013-09-20, 05:29

Please don't turn this into a thread to rant about how much you hate the trope. I already know that a lot of you hate it, some to a point beyond what I can understand. In many stories I see with powerful women they express a desire to meet a man who can best them in battle, but they hardly seem to be weak-natured to dismiss any man they can beat as too weak to interest them. And I've seen plenty of shows where a man whose crush is stronger than him wanting to be stronger, best demonstrated in Kenichi, where the boy doesn't want to be strong enough to beat or control Miyu, he wants to be strong enough to be able to protect her if need be.
If what we're dealing with is a girl who is clearly powerful suddenly becoming distinctly weak, I fully understand the distaste, but in both SAO and Railgun what we had was a girl who found herself faced with an enemy who had some distinct traits that made him able to disregard her power. In Railgun, it didn't matter how powerful a person's ability was against Accelerator since his power allowed him to turn anything back and/or change its magnitude, or with Toma since all powers amounted to nothing against nullification; and it didn't matter how powerful Asuna was since she was inside a program controlled by a man who actively used his GM authority and who most certainly would have been willing to defile her real body where her gaming strength had no meaning whatsoever if she put up too much resistance in-game. The girls weren't weak, and the opponents weren't stronger than them, their respective abilities were just different in a manner that placed the enemy at an advantage and gave the "heroes" a potential advantage over them.
Given the number of pointless rants, I'm willing to accept stories where the "damsel" isn't female or the "hero" isn't male, given that it illicits the same groans in you haters' minds and there is a way upon examination to question whether the "damsel" is really shown as weak here.

Jan-Poo · 2013-09-20, 10:00

If the "hero" who rescues the powerful damsel in distress doesn't need to be male then "Hyperdimension Neptunia the animation" works, you even get four of them all at the same time.

In Neon Genesis Evangelion Rei saves the generally more skilled Asuka from a completely helpless situation.

Spoiler for Evangelion:

Fate/Stay Night: Unlimited Blade Works The woman who is supposed to be the strongest servant ever ends up being stereotypically put in chains and is given a nice white sexy dress to make her fit the trope even better, because nothing says "damsel in distress" more than a nice white sexy dress (Even Asuna gets one).
A guy and a girl come to her rescue, but ultimately it's the latter that saves the day.

Hataraku Maou-Sama The powerful heroine (and by "heroine" I mean an actual heroic epic heroine, not just the main female character) is saved by her male nemesis that she once defeated.

Muv Luv Alternative: Total Eclipse Too many to count.

Shakugan no Shana Final Shana ends up in the stereotypical damsel in distress situation, nice white sexy dress included. She gets indirectly rescued, but does the most by herself, and not by her "prince charming" anyway... for obvious reasons...

Mad Pierrot · 2013-09-20, 10:56

Rukia from Bleach is a justified example. She is a strong and inteligent Shinigami. However, she is sentenced by her superiors to be executed just because she gave her powers to a human. At first, she tries to escape from the Shinigami who try to arrest her. When Ichigo is nearly killed while trying to save her, Rukia decides to accept her punishment to stop her brother from finishing Ichigo.

Also, Kagome is a weird case. She is teenage girl in the sengoku period but has a lot of powers. However, the powers are so inconsistent that she has been kidnapped several times.

Jan-Poo · 2013-09-20, 11:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by amaterasu4

Also, Kagome is a weird case. She is teenage girl in the sengoku period but has a lot of powers. However, the powers are so inconsistent that she has been kidnapped several times.

I agree that Kagome is a stretch because she just has some powers but she has never been really a powerful character when compared to the various enemies or even her allies.

sayde · 2013-09-20, 19:03

Pretty sure Fairy Tail could count to a degree so long as romance doesn't have to be a factor. Because for better or for worse, and for a multitude of reasons I think would be too lengthy & convoluted for me to explain in depth, Fairy Tail has this way of making sure the strongest females in that show stay feeling pretty damn strong and respectable even after they end up in need of some rescuing every now and then--which is something I don't see a lot from shonen's like Bleach or Naruto.

I also want to suggest the first half of the second season to the Monogatari series. That was also done pretty well IMO. Main female protagonist of the arc got saved by the main protagonist of the series without it really degrading the female character in question.

That's all that comes to mind for now.

GDiddy · 2013-09-20, 20:28

Every female character just about in Bleach.

Especially Rukia....which Kubo has seriously ruined for me.

2013-09-01, 08:24	Link #1
Seiryuu Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003	Strong girl who still becomes damsel-in-distress Not long ago, Sword Art Online got a lot of beef for how the heroine Asuna was portrayed in the second half. In the first half, she was a powerful warrior who saved the hero just like he on some occasions saved her; in the second, while the hero was released from the virtual world she was trapped in another one where the game master caged her and toyed with her as he saw fit. Many people thought that this portrayal was in some way wrong, as she should have been "stronger" and should have fought back herself. I myself didn't think it was wrong, because she did fight back, but the game master this time wasn't playing fair, he was using his control of the world to render escape or resistance impossible. My question then is, are there any anime/manga that manage this transition from strong heroine to near-helpless Damsel-In-Distress well? I personally don't think the two are entirely mutually exclusive. I know of a few stories with a powerful girl who longs for a man who's actually stronger than her, or a guy who longs to be powerful enough to protect the girl he loves even when the enemy's too strong for her to handle. There's no weakness in a person being powerless against a particularly formidable foe, or in a girl wanting a 'hero' strong enough to save her even if such a foe should capture her. And there's no arrogance or presumption for a guy to want to be powerful enough to save the girl he loves from such foes. Aren't there any stories where the two concepts coexist peacefully?

2013-09-01, 10:44	Link #3
Sackett Cross Game - I need more Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: I've moved around the American West. I've lived in Oregon, Washington, Utah, and Oklahoma Age: 44	Yes, *A Certain Scientific Railgun S* (second season) does this rather well. Another good choice would be *Crest of the Stars. Lafiel is strong in space, but earth bound she's a fish out of water. She's not helpless mind you, but she does need help from someone with more experience. Plenty of others, but those are the ones I'd start with. __________________ Cross Game* - A Story of Love, Life, Death - and Baseball. What more could you want?

2013-09-02, 21:21	Link #5
Sackett Cross Game - I need more Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: I've moved around the American West. I've lived in Oregon, Washington, Utah, and Oklahoma Age: 44	It's pretty clear that Mikoto counts. It even had plenty of people complaining about how she needed her "prince" to come rescue her. Not to mention the whole bridge scene practically invokes the trope. __________________ Cross Game - A Story of Love, Life, Death - and Baseball. What more could you want?

2013-09-15, 08:46	Link #10
Eragon Still Alive Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Somewhere far far away Age: 30	Just one question : Why does it have to be a girl that is in need of rescuing ? Oh right, because we don't have enough of those -_- __________________ Signature courtesy of rikikai

2013-09-20, 10:00	Link #16
Jan-Poo 別にいいけど Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: forever lost inside a logic error	If the "hero" who rescues the powerful damsel in distress doesn't need to be male then "Hyperdimension Neptunia the animation" works, you even get four of them all at the same time. In Neon Genesis Evangelion Rei saves the generally more skilled Asuka from a completely helpless situation. Spoiler for Evangelion: But not quite in time to save her mental virginity. Fate/Stay Night: Unlimited Blade Works The woman who is supposed to be the strongest servant ever ends up being stereotypically put in chains and is given a nice white sexy dress to make her fit the trope even better, because nothing says "damsel in distress" more than a nice white sexy dress (Even Asuna gets one). A guy and a girl come to her rescue, but ultimately it's the latter that saves the day. Hataraku Maou-Sama The powerful heroine (and by "heroine" I mean an actual heroic epic heroine, not just the main female character) is saved by her male nemesis that she once defeated. Muv Luv Alternative: Total Eclipse Too many to count. Shakugan no Shana Final Shana ends up in the stereotypical damsel in distress situation, nice white sexy dress included. She gets indirectly rescued, but does the most by herself, and not by her "prince charming" anyway... for obvious reasons... __________________ Last edited by Jan-Poo; 2013-09-20 at 10:17.

2013-09-02, 21:19	Link #4
Tenzen12 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012	I don't think Railgun count. First it was Misaka plan all along to let herself get killed and second when Touma interved she saved his ass with assistence of sisters so it can be said they beat antagonist together... Anyway: Bleach, Mahou Sensei Negima, Full Metal Panic, Rosario Vampire (manga only).

2013-09-03, 03:47	Link #6
Tenzen12 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012	If Touma didn't appear she would be able stop experiments anyway (yeah she would be dead, but whatever) and even if it was him who kicked accelerator ass he wouldn't be able if Misaka didn't come with plan to counter giant plazna ball. But this isn't realy place to argue about that, so let's end it here.

2013-09-15, 04:33	Link #7
Seiryuu Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003	OK, clearly Misaka somewhat fulfills the conditions, and in some ways does not. I myself am not entirely sure whether it fits, but it's an awesome series either way. Are there any others?

2013-09-15, 04:47	Link #8
ninryu It's yuri, bitches Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Israel Age: 28	Do I even need to say how much I absolutely loathe this trope? (See Railgun S above)

2013-09-18, 10:57	Link #14
scineram Member Join Date: Aug 2011	Kagome was chuugakusei. Sango was a trained warrior.

2013-09-20, 05:29	Link #15
Seiryuu Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003	Please don't turn this into a thread to rant about how much you hate the trope. I already know that a lot of you hate it, some to a point beyond what I can understand. In many stories I see with powerful women they express a desire to meet a man who can best them in battle, but they hardly seem to be weak-natured to dismiss any man they can beat as too weak to interest them. And I've seen plenty of shows where a man whose crush is stronger than him wanting to be stronger, best demonstrated in Kenichi, where the boy doesn't want to be strong enough to beat or control Miyu, he wants to be strong enough to be able to protect her if need be. If what we're dealing with is a girl who is clearly powerful suddenly becoming distinctly weak, I fully understand the distaste, but in both SAO and Railgun what we had was a girl who found herself faced with an enemy who had some distinct traits that made him able to disregard her power. In Railgun, it didn't matter how powerful a person's ability was against Accelerator since his power allowed him to turn anything back and/or change its magnitude, or with Toma since all powers amounted to nothing against nullification; and it didn't matter how powerful Asuna was since she was inside a program controlled by a man who actively used his GM authority and who most certainly would have been willing to defile her real body where her gaming strength had no meaning whatsoever if she put up too much resistance in-game. The girls weren't weak, and the opponents weren't stronger than them, their respective abilities were just different in a manner that placed the enemy at an advantage and gave the "heroes" a potential advantage over them. Given the number of pointless rants, I'm willing to accept stories where the "damsel" isn't female or the "hero" isn't male, given that it illicits the same groans in you haters' minds and there is a way upon examination to question whether the "damsel" is really shown as weak here.

2013-09-20, 10:56	Link #17
Mad Pierrot Corrupted fool Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: I'm everywhere Age: 33	Rukia from Bleach is a justified example. She is a strong and inteligent Shinigami. However, she is sentenced by her superiors to be executed just because she gave her powers to a human. At first, she tries to escape from the Shinigami who try to arrest her. When Ichigo is nearly killed while trying to save her, Rukia decides to accept her punishment to stop her brother from finishing Ichigo. Also, Kagome is a weird case. She is teenage girl in the sengoku period but has a lot of powers. However, the powers are so inconsistent that she has been kidnapped several times.

2013-09-20, 19:03	Link #19
sayde Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005	Pretty sure Fairy Tail could count to a degree so long as romance doesn't have to be a factor. Because for better or for worse, and for a multitude of reasons I think would be too lengthy & convoluted for me to explain in depth, Fairy Tail has this way of making sure the strongest females in that show stay feeling pretty damn strong and respectable even after they end up in need of some rescuing every now and then--which is something I don't see a lot from shonen's like Bleach or Naruto. I also want to suggest the first half of the second season to the Monogatari series. That was also done pretty well IMO. Main female protagonist of the arc got saved by the main protagonist of the series without it really degrading the female character in question. That's all that comes to mind for now.

2013-09-20, 20:28	Link #20
GDiddy Sisterhood of the Desu Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: in a van by the river	Every female character just about in Bleach. Especially Rukia....which Kubo has seriously ruined for me. __________________