AnimeSuki Forums

Endscape · 2013-10-23, 01:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Hard to say, but even a reinforcement user would have trouble being tough everywhere, all the time. So unless he can guess where the next dart's going to hit (and even Killua could only guess the last one), he's going to get punctured.

They can just use nen to guard their body constantly, it's not as if the Orthro siblings can actually tell what happens to their targets, much to their sorrow this ep.

That's probably why they need that whole song and dance with Ikalgo and crew, to lower the enemies' stamina.

Dengar · 2013-10-23, 01:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Endscape

They can just use nen to guard their body constantly, it's not as if the Orthro siblings can actually tell what happens to their targets, much to their sorrow this ep.

That's probably why they need that whole song and dance with Ikalgo and crew, to lower the enemies' stamina.

If you mean Ken, forget it. You'd have to be Uvo level strong for that to work, and I'm not even sure Uvo would be able to stop them.

Hamster · 2013-10-23, 05:01

Oh I can imagine Uvo being at that level. Remember, he took a sniper bullet to the face without a scratch.Even if those nen darts are of above average strength they might not be able to puncture his thick, RPG-proof skull.

In his rage he'd do a big bang impact barrage causing earthquakes, making the entire cave system collapse, not to mention making the merman lose balance and miss.

Yeah, I like his style. This arc would be like Valhalla to him if he were still alive.

whitecloud · 2013-10-23, 05:39

Is it just me....i found gon to be quite scary...nat in looks really but in how dangerous his words is that shows that somehow he have a warped personality...?

When he is being lectured by meleoron about his trusting other, he said if youre lying he would easily kill him without mercy?

Gan_HOPE326 · 2013-10-23, 05:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by whitecloud

Is it just me....i found gon to be quite scary...nat in looks really but in how dangerous his words is that shows that somehow he have a warped personality...?

When he is being lectured by meleoron about his trusting other, he said if youre lying he would easily kill him without mercy?

That's basically the point of Gon as a character. It's been a theme through the whole series - he's completely amoral. He basically lacks any sense of right or wrong beyond his own gut feelings. He basically shows how the traditional shonen "idot hero" taken to the extreme is actually scary as fuck

.

Marikina · 2013-10-23, 06:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hamster

Do the darts somehow negate a nen-reinforced body?

If not then I'm sure a strong, tough as nails reinforcement user would just shrug off the damage and wreck the area until he finds those two.

Durability doesn't appear to factor into it. The darts don't exist until they pierce the skin.

TooPurePureBoy · 2013-10-23, 08:53

Ya there is a big difference for a reinforcement user stopping a projectile (even a bazooka blast) that has no nen as apposed to even a dart with nen. I'm not saying a guy like Uvo who is a reinforcement beast would be stopped by the dart ability. I personally think he would wipe the floor with most of the chimera ants up to the Royal Bodyguards. That said, the Nen darts would inflict a lot of damage, even on him. Like someone else said, I just think him raging around going "Big Bang Impact" would bury them pretty quick.

Uvo was the man, too bad he killed indiscriminately and ended up with Kurapicka as an enemy.

Gan_HOPE326 · 2013-10-23, 09:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hamster

Do the darts somehow negate a nen-reinforced body?

If not then I'm sure a strong, tough as nails reinforcement user would just shrug off the damage and wreck the area until he finds those two.

The darts probably penetrate the skin as part of their conditions, but a strong reinforcement user could probably heal the damage and shrug them off as you say. I don't think the ability in itself is such a strong one, it's more tricky than anything else. I'm pretty sure different users could counter it in different ways. And maybe you can use Nen removal on the pin.

Hamster · 2013-10-23, 09:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by TooPurePureBoy

Ya there is a big difference for a reinforcement user stopping a projectile (even a bazooka blast) that has no nen as apposed to even a dart with nen.

I think the chimera ants were strong enough to stop the weaker nen attacks without using nen.

Dengar · 2013-10-23, 11:02

Yes, but you HAVE to consider the conditions and circumstances of this ability and how it works. I really think Uvo would not be able to stop the darts from piercing him. IE toughness isn't a factor. (plus one or more of you seem to carry the misconception that a bullet has more piercing power than a dart)

Personally, I think Uvo would probably never have been tagged by the badge in the first place since there's a pretty good chance that he'd kill that little guy putting the tag on him without realising it. His attacks have a very wide range.

Assuming for a second that he would get tagged, he'd be unable to stop the ability nor figure out how the ability even works. Cos while he's not a complete idiot, he's not one for analytical thinking or knowing the rules of darts.

Of course, all of that would be moot since he'd indeed just wreck the entire cavern in a fit of frustration, killing the guy using the ability in the process.

Arkeus · 2013-10-23, 11:52

The ability probably has a distance limit, but Uvo, if you remember, didn't have invicible toughness- the 'mad dog' could bite him just fine.

whitecloud · 2013-10-23, 13:25

Thats why its alwasy been said nen isnt always about power level...its also about compability...

Think about it...lets just say the same ability, in some way ever hit the KING, if he doesnt know the rule of the game, can he do anything? Scratch that, any nen with special rule, like IRS nen with interest, or kurapika chain nen (if modified to chimera ant) could easily criple the king if it hit, so there is nobody that is trully invincible...

Anh_Minh · 2013-10-23, 14:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dengar

Personally, I think Uvo would probably never have been tagged by the badge in the first place since there's a pretty good chance that he'd kill that little guy putting the tag on him without realising it. His attacks have a very wide range.

Maybe, maybe not. He got chained, and bitten and poisoned, so it's not like his defense is all that good.

Quote:

Assuming for a second that he would get tagged, he'd be unable to stop the ability nor figure out how the ability even works. Cos while he's not a complete idiot, he's not one for analytical thinking or knowing the rules of darts.

Of course, all of that would be moot since he'd indeed just wreck the entire cavern in a fit of frustration, killing the guy using the ability in the process.

Or burying himself alive under too much rock for even him to escape. Maybe the siblings could even have escaped the destruction. It depends on a lot of things.

Dengar · 2013-10-23, 15:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Maybe, maybe not. He got chained, and bitten and poisoned, so it's not like his defense is all that good.

I'm not talking about his defense, I'm talking about his offense. It's very plausible that the little guy with the badge would get caught up in one of Uvo's attacks without Uvo realising he's there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Or burying himself alive under too much rock for even him to escape. Maybe the siblings could even have escaped the destruction. It depends on a lot of things.

The former isn't very farfetched, but given the nature of Uvo's ability, the latter is very unlikely.

Anh_Minh · 2013-10-23, 15:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dengar

I'm not talking about his defense, I'm talking about his offense. It's very plausible that the little guy with the badge would get caught up in one of Uvo's attacks without Uvo realising he's there.

Yeah, but another would just take his place.

Quote:

The former isn't very farfetched, but given the nature of Uvo's ability, the latter is very unlikely.

Depends how far they'd be from Uvo, whether they have exit tunnels...

Hamster · 2013-10-23, 17:43

It all depends on the actual piercing power of those darts actually. The ants have shown that nen attacks aren't unstoppable without nen defense. You just have to be tough enough though having nen helps a lot.

Even if they just materialize after they've pierced the skin, there's still the thickness of the underlying muscle to deal with and it's most likely nen reinforced as well slowing down the darts.

And I'm sure someone like Uvo would be able to dig his way out of a mountain.

Dengar · 2013-10-24, 02:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hamster

The ants have shown that nen attacks aren't unstoppable without nen defense.

Unless the nature of the ability makes the attack unstoppable. It's not unheard of.

Clarste · 2013-10-24, 03:25

I doubt the darts have any special penetration power. I mean, they're not weak, but the ability already has so many strengths that I don't think the mid-level users of it have any nen power left to add to make it "absolutely penetrating". And it's conjuration-type anyway so they're probably inefficient at making it stronger.

That aside, the strength of the ability presumably comes from a combination of the fact that it requires two users (they call this their "trust" but in terms of conditions it basically means that either of them would be completely helpless on their own) and the death condition for failure. So it's really a case of Kurapika-style extreme limitations making for an extreme ability. It's absolutely powerful in their ideal conditions, but useless anywhere else. What if they were ambushed, for example? They have to be in complete control of the entire fight from beginning to end.

Dengar · 2013-10-24, 04:54

Still, there's a difference between ability to puncture and force of impact. Bullets rely mostly on the latter. And it has been proven that Uvo's skin IS penetrable.

Clarste · 2013-10-24, 10:57

Uvo is not the absolute standard of strength. I also recall that Kurapika's teammates were unable to pierce his skin with a needle to inject a tranquilizer even after he was restrained (this line might have been cut from the anime?). So obviously it's just a matter of comparing strengths. Uvo is "very strong" but not invincible. Even if he could be pierced by the fish, that doesn't mean that an even stronger Enhancer wouldn't be able to block them.

I'm really not sure why people are making this so complicated. Maybe they like to think of Uvo as the ultimate Enhancer?

2013-10-23, 05:39	Link #3724
whitecloud Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011	Is it just me....i found gon to be quite scary...nat in looks really but in how dangerous his words is that shows that somehow he have a warped personality...? When he is being lectured by meleoron about his trusting other, he said if youre lying he would easily kill him without mercy? __________________ Friends are nice.......

2013-10-23, 08:53	Link #3727
TooPurePureBoy Socially Inept Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Retracing my steps.....	Ya there is a big difference for a reinforcement user stopping a projectile (even a bazooka blast) that has no nen as apposed to even a dart with nen. I'm not saying a guy like Uvo who is a reinforcement beast would be stopped by the dart ability. I personally think he would wipe the floor with most of the chimera ants up to the Royal Bodyguards. That said, the Nen darts would inflict a lot of damage, even on him. Like someone else said, I just think him raging around going "Big Bang Impact" would bury them pretty quick. Uvo was the man, too bad he killed indiscriminately and ended up with Kurapicka as an enemy. __________________ "Do what I do in every friendship and relationship, give 5%" - Ron Bennington

2013-10-23, 13:25	Link #3732
whitecloud Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011	Thats why its alwasy been said nen isnt always about power level...its also about compability... Think about it...lets just say the same ability, in some way ever hit the KING, if he doesnt know the rule of the game, can he do anything? Scratch that, any nen with special rule, like IRS nen with interest, or kurapika chain nen (if modified to chimera ant) could easily criple the king if it hit, so there is nobody that is trully invincible... __________________ Friends are nice.......

2013-10-23, 05:01	Link #3723
Hamster Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007	Oh I can imagine Uvo being at that level. Remember, he took a sniper bullet to the face without a scratch.Even if those nen darts are of above average strength they might not be able to puncture his thick, RPG-proof skull. In his rage he'd do a big bang impact barrage causing earthquakes, making the entire cave system collapse, not to mention making the merman lose balance and miss. Yeah, I like his style. This arc would be like Valhalla to him if he were still alive.

2013-10-23, 11:02	Link #3730
Dengar Kamen Rider Muppeteer Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Unknown Age: 39	Yes, but you HAVE to consider the conditions and circumstances of this ability and how it works. I really think Uvo would not be able to stop the darts from piercing him. IE toughness isn't a factor. (plus one or more of you seem to carry the misconception that a bullet has more piercing power than a dart) Personally, I think Uvo would probably never have been tagged by the badge in the first place since there's a pretty good chance that he'd kill that little guy putting the tag on him without realising it. His attacks have a very wide range. Assuming for a second that he would get tagged, he'd be unable to stop the ability nor figure out how the ability even works. Cos while he's not a complete idiot, he's not one for analytical thinking or knowing the rules of darts. Of course, all of that would be moot since he'd indeed just wreck the entire cavern in a fit of frustration, killing the guy using the ability in the process.

2013-10-23, 11:52	Link #3731
Arkeus Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008	The ability probably has a distance limit, but Uvo, if you remember, didn't have invicible toughness- the 'mad dog' could bite him just fine.

2013-10-23, 17:43	Link #3736
Hamster Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007	It all depends on the actual piercing power of those darts actually. The ants have shown that nen attacks aren't unstoppable without nen defense. You just have to be tough enough though having nen helps a lot. Even if they just materialize after they've pierced the skin, there's still the thickness of the underlying muscle to deal with and it's most likely nen reinforced as well slowing down the darts. And I'm sure someone like Uvo would be able to dig his way out of a mountain.

2013-10-24, 03:25	Link #3738
Clarste Human Join Date: Aug 2004 Age: 37	I doubt the darts have any special penetration power. I mean, they're not weak, but the ability already has so many strengths that I don't think the mid-level users of it have any nen power left to add to make it "absolutely penetrating". And it's conjuration-type anyway so they're probably inefficient at making it stronger. That aside, the strength of the ability presumably comes from a combination of the fact that it requires two users (they call this their "trust" but in terms of conditions it basically means that either of them would be completely helpless on their own) and the death condition for failure. So it's really a case of Kurapika-style extreme limitations making for an extreme ability. It's absolutely powerful in their ideal conditions, but useless anywhere else. What if they were ambushed, for example? They have to be in complete control of the entire fight from beginning to end.

2013-10-24, 04:54	Link #3739
Dengar Kamen Rider Muppeteer Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Unknown Age: 39	Still, there's a difference between ability to puncture and force of impact. Bullets rely mostly on the latter. And it has been proven that Uvo's skin IS penetrable.

2013-10-24, 10:57	Link #3740
Clarste Human Join Date: Aug 2004 Age: 37	Uvo is not the absolute standard of strength. I also recall that Kurapika's teammates were unable to pierce his skin with a needle to inject a tranquilizer even after he was restrained (this line might have been cut from the anime?). So obviously it's just a matter of comparing strengths. Uvo is "very strong" but not invincible. Even if he could be pierced by the fish, that doesn't mean that an even stronger Enhancer wouldn't be able to block them. I'm really not sure why people are making this so complicated. Maybe they like to think of Uvo as the ultimate Enhancer?