Mahou Senki Lyrical Nanoha Force Manga Discussion

[FRS]

Originally Posted by Arkeus

The problem is that it's been pointed multiple times the huckbein don't need to become mass murderer to survive.

Killing in a sanctionned manner works, too. Also, their attitute toward their killing people is off.

This is not about hte huckbein needing to survive, it's about the huckbein choosing to turn killing into murdering fun times.

I am not sure i am following you there: do you mean that the Hucklebein should be have surrender and that the Bureau would have let have a way to kill legally ? that looks like a PR nightmare.



@al103:

To clarify my position, the Huclkebein are vilains but i understand why they are acting that way, that also doesnt mean that i think they should be left free.

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

What, you mean people are UNFAIR to a villain who was meant to be disliked, and did a pretty good job of it? What a revelation. Seriously, people dislike antagonistic characters, that's a fact. Exactly when did this turn into a court case or something?

Because some insist to use arguements that are so questionables to justify their hate that they are bound to be called on.

[Arkeus]

Originally Posted by FRS

I am not sure i am following you there: do you mean that the Hucklebein should be have surrender and that the Bureau would have let have a way to kill legally ? that looks like a PR nightmare.

No, i am saying the Huckbeins could get into hundreds of different militaries that are currently in war where they could kill people everyday. Like Orussia.

They, however, choose to form a clique where they Kill whoever they want whenever they want for fun.

@al103:

To clarify my position, the Huclkebein are vilains but i understand why they are acting that way, that also doesnt mean that i think they should be left free.

Not understanding why a character act that way means the character is incredibly badly done. This doesn't change that it's their choice, and that they embrace it.

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by Arkeus

No, i am saying the Huckbeins could get into hundreds of different militaries that are currently in war where they could kill people everyday. Like Orussia.

That's actually a really good point, if they don't like to kill unecessary, why the heck they don't go to a place where they can kill "legaly" intead of anhilating town and villages, what's the freaking purpouse of doing that? They receive more points for elders and childrens?

[itanshi1]

Aren't they outside of TSAB jurisdiction? Aren't the TSAB on special orders?

[00-Raiser]

Originally Posted by Arkeus

They, however, choose to form a clique where they Kill whoever they want whenever they want for fun.

Please don't make things up.


Two things:

1.) Not allowing the Hucks to kill is like depriving a person of food and water. The latter is often considered a terrible thing.

2.) Let ye who is without sin cast the first stone

Originally Posted by itanshi1

Aren't they outside of TSAB jurisdiction? Aren't the TSAB on special orders?

They mostly operate outside of TSAB space, yeah. Hense their argument that they haven't done anything serious in Bureau territory so section 6 should go deal with a more major threat.

They work as hired guns so I'm sure they've been hired by some governments to do some 'legal' killing.

[LostSome]

Originally Posted by itanshi1

Aren't they outside of TSAB jurisdiction? Aren't the TSAB on special orders?

They are on TSAB`s wanted list for being suspects in various cases.
S6 is mainly after them for their connection to the Eclipse.
S6`s main objective is the Eclipse, the BoSC and Dividers.

The Hucks usually stay out of the Bureau`s jurisdiction and when they are inside, try to have a low profile.

[Justin_Brett]

1.) Not allowing the Hucks to kill is like depriving a person of food and water. The latter is often considered a terrible thing.

Yeah, it's tantamount to mur - ooooooh.

2.) Let ye who is without sin cast the first stone

Because all crimes are equal.

[Akiyoshi]

Even if the Hucks worked as hired guns it's dubious they were hired to do "legal killing" what possible justification they could have to anhilate a "poineer's town"? I undertand the possibility of some criminals living there or even the leaders and some people of the town working on something illegal, but why the hell they killed all women, man AND children? What kind of twisted goverment ruled by a tyrannical dictator allowed that?

The Hucks's situation is understandable, also their desire of survival, but their actions are not justificable by any of that. Even more because they indeed have much less "villanous" options that the ones they taken. I'm waiting for their Freudian Excuse to be explained as everyone else but what i'm really waiting for is a good explanation of why on earth they decided to make a bloobath of those towns and villages, maybe i'm missing something important, maybe those village have a horrible secret or where really full of horrible people(childrens included) that deserved being killed, or maybe the town are suffering from some kind of disease and the Hucks were sent to clean up the menace(implying their Eclipse infection make them resistant to the disease).

I just want to know why.

[00-Raiser]

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

Yeah, it's tantamount to mur - ooooooh.

Exactly. Two wrongs don't make a right. Three lefts do!

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

Even if the Hucks worked as hired guns it's dubious they were hired to do "legal killing" what possible justification they could have to anhilate a "poineer's town"? I undertand the possibility of some criminals living there or even the leaders and some people of the town working on something illegal, but why the hell they killed all women, man AND children? What kind of twisted goverment ruled by a tyrannical dictator allowed that?

The Hucks's situation is understandable, also their desire of survival, but their actions are not justificable by any of that. Even more because they indeed have much less "villanous" options that the ones they taken. I'm waiting for their Freudian Excuse to be explained as everyone else but what i'm really waiting for is a good explanation of why on earth they decided to make a bloobath of those towns and villages, maybe i'm missing something important, maybe those village have a horrible secret or where really full of horrible people(childrens included) that deserved being killed, or maybe the town are suffering from some kind of disease and the Hucks were sent to clean up the menace(implying their Eclipse infection make them resistant to the disease).

I just want to know why.

It was obviously a community for the Umbrella Corporation. And we all know those places have more leaks than Gilligan's boat

Wouldn't be surprised if the Eclipse was made as a weapon in a similar vein. Drop them in enemy territory, they kill everyone, and then die off when it's over, Relic style.

[Akiyoshi]

Actually that would be an interesting backstory for the Hucks. They(or some of them) was sent as a metaphorical "Depopulation Bomb" somewhere with the objetive of killing everybody and then dying. But it turned out they managed to survive. Escaped their orignal "bosses" and started their life of continuous escape. Eventually meeting with Curren who acted as a mentor and mother to the first one's(which include Cypha as she mentioned she was one of the "founder members") and started searching for new members of their "family".

I can live with something like that xD

[Justin_Brett]

I meant that more of a denouncement of your argument, thank you. Really doubt anyone in the position to make the call on that would be swayed by that little phrase. I mean, what would happen if you said that to Seal Team 6?

[Akiyoshi]

The thing is that we didn't see the Huckebein suffering enough to feel simpathy for them. We see the Wokenritter suffering over the tought of Hayate dying. We've seen Fate's suffering at the hands of Precia(and Arf's rampage at her which is her Top Crowning Moment of Awesome to me, she went from an evil douchebag that attempted to eat Nanoha to the most sympathetic antagonist of S1 in a single scene xD!). We've seen the toughts and doubts of some of the numbers about the morality of their actions and ...gosh, we even seen some of Scaglietti's internal toughts of being a puppet of destiny in one of his rare moments of reflection.

So far we've only seen the Hucks being holly jolly dancing and laughing while stomping everyone all the way. It's implied they have tough pasts but never explained carefully nor expressed trough her actions or behavior. The fact i enjoyed seeing Fortis and Stella pissing their pants in fear says a lot. The moment we manage to see their real conflict and struggle to achieve something they truly desire, that moment i will think of viewing them on a different light.

[marconii2002]

Good news english scanlation of chapters 14 and 15 are out

[Rising Dragon]

We've known for a while now.

[Arcc]

I pity the Hucks. I honestly do. But that isn't the same as sympathy. Sympathy is a thing born of understanding. Pity is tainted by scorn.

[Endscape]

I sympathize with their situation, it's the Hucks I don't sympathize with, because they don't seem like they care about their situation at all.

[Akiyoshi]

Well, Ch. 18 got miraculously translated in spanish(these people are really quick and constant xD) so here's the traditional summary:

Spoiler for Slice of Military life?:

- This chapter takes place "several days"(more than a week but less than a month, i guess) after the assault on Vandin Corporation. the location and route of the Huckebein is still undiscovered, the investigation continues.
- New countermeasures has been put in work to improve the AEC-equipement(apparently supervized by Mariel Atenza). And then, a small good new...
- Signum's Awakening:

Agito: Signum! ....Signum! Are you awake?

Rein: Signum!

Signum: This is...?

Agito: Signum, are you allright?

Rein: We're Agito and Rein can you recognize us?

Signum: I tought two angels were welcoming me ...but are you.

Agito: Even after awakening you're saying things like that *sniff*

Rein: We where really worried about you.

Hayate: Sorry, Signum ....for being the first one going and coming from heaven simultaneosly after recovering. However, i'm really glad you're okay ....welcom back, Signum.

Signum: Yes, my master.

- Tohma, Isis and Lily start their new life as apprentices on a single room. Isis complain about the room having the appearance of a reformatory's apartment.
- Erio and Caro comes to visit them, apparently they also know Tohma from before(Erio comments on how much has Tohma grown but Tohma is more impressed by Erio's height), presentations are made and Erio takes Tohma on his arms performing their now famous "yaoi scene" where Erio tells him he's glad he's fine even after all the problems. Tohma apologizes to Erio for the troubles but Erio reassures him thet they "got already used to this kind of work" and takes them to the training camp.
- Nanoha and Vita presents themselves with the same ranks they sported on StrikerS(Captain and 2nd Lietunant respectively). They divided the assistants in two groups, white shirts for beginners(Tohma, Isis, Lily) and black shirts for advanced(the rest). Vita mentions that the novices have forbidden to intervene on official activity, at least until they pass their first stage of training and learn to take care of themselves and their teammates.
- The training begins, Isis is confident about her physical prowess but 40 minutes after all the newbies are already tired by the warm-up exercises while everyone else is just ok, even Caro is enjoying herself xDU.
- Teana and Ginga join the practice and the warm-up ends to let pass to the combat training, everyone grab a Strike Cannon and start running around(yeah, they have a storage filled with those, apparently xDU).
- Vita start commenting her worries to Nanoha about having Tohma and Lily doing training with them as apparently she still don't have full thrust in them, still she's confident to raise those three to an average military level.
- Vita orders everyone to gear up in thier own suits for a mock battle, everyone is impressed at Tohma and Isis's protective gear(Caro even points out Tohma's sinister appearance). Tohma notes that his eyes are now green-ish blue instead of red. Subaru point's out that it's thanks to Lily stabilizing their power to allow him to use his body freely.

It continues on Ch. 18 -final part-

Well, some filler and some exposition, short but somehow concise chapter. Apparently the next highlight of Force will be this Mock battle, we would see if Tohma keeps his unbelievable Story Breker Powers or if he receives a Redemption Promotion(like the Wolks) that downgrade his "game breakness" to more story-manageable levels.

I think things will be calm until Curren execute her evil version of the Brady Bunch Reunion xD

[Justin_Brett]

Somehow I doubt they'll devote excessive time to showing Touma actually fight considering he's probably going to fight the Hucks soon anyway. I mean what would be the point?

[Akiyoshi]

...showing more of his sinister "awesomeness" xD?

[Koveras Alvane]

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

- The training begins, Isis is confident about her physical prowess but 40 minutes after all the newbies are already tired by the warm-up exercises while everyone else is just ok, even Caro is enjoying herself xDU.

Awww, Isis, you are such a wimp. :3