2010-11-29, 13:10 | Link #26341 |
Left for TFF
Author
|
Well, to be honest, when they first showed up, the Wolkenritter were upsetting. Everything about them (except Vita) just was jarring to me.
The Hucks, not so much. Heck, I like Signum, she's awesome, but she was ASKING for the beat-down she got since she tanked Fate's attacks in A's. I watch A's, and all I want to do is smack the Wolkies and the catgirls with a paper fan, no matter HOW many times I watch it. (At least the catgirls got that spanking they deserved in one of my fics) I read that fight of Force, and, well, what Cypha did to Signum doesn't bother me.
__________________
|
2010-11-29, 13:34 | Link #26343 | |
Labda Prakarsa Nirwikara
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Pekanbaru (UTC+07:00)
Age: 37
|
Quote:
Using exotic weapons in her fight against Signum---> She have an advantage, why waste it? No problem there Having insane regen---> Again, it's part of her weapons package, just like the cartridges Boasting on how awesome and fun it is to murder innocent civilians---> .....Die, BWitch! That pretty much sums my opinion On something image related (was this posted? I forgot) Spoiler for Potentially NSFW:
__________________
|
|
2010-11-29, 13:42 | Link #26345 | |
Left for TFF
Author
|
Quote:
I also like the Numbers more than any of the other characters in the series (except Quattro). And, honestly, even though we see why the Wolkenritter were doing what they were doing in A's for a good reason... I *STILL* can't like them in A's. I've tried. I can't.
__________________
|
|
2010-11-29, 13:43 | Link #26346 |
Labda Prakarsa Nirwikara
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Pekanbaru (UTC+07:00)
Age: 37
|
You obviously never walked into the "Is Cypha cheating or not?" argument at the manga thread back when the chapter got out (summer, I think?), did you? Still, no reason to bring that topic here, I guess *cough* image thread*cough*
__________________
|
2010-11-29, 13:44 | Link #26347 | ||
Burst Mode
Author
|
Hey, Cypha's pretty cool, yo. It's nice to see villains actually acting like villains for once. All the haters are just bitter that she scored a legitimate victory against a fan favourite.
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
|
||
2010-11-29, 14:04 | Link #26349 |
Mastermind Rational
Author
|
Ah, but that's the apple of discord: those you refer to as "haters" don't see her victory as legitimate. That was kinda the whole point of that argument. Personally, I have no problem with Cypha, even if she is a psychotic murderer... as long as she gets a can of righteous whoopass opened on her at some point. :3
__________________
|
2010-11-29, 14:10 | Link #26350 |
Under Death by College
Author
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Where you least expect me
Age: 30
|
It's about time we had villians that weren't likable, we've done well so far. I mean even Jail with his over the top acting was kinda likable.
Besides legitimate victory=we have a badass villian: Cheating=we have a real villian who will resort to real evil means. Arguments like these always interest me, since I see both sides taking a different view on the same thing. It's a nice insight on the way people think. If signum had died then I would care, she didn't so I don't.
__________________
|
2010-11-29, 14:14 | Link #26351 |
Banned
|
From what I understand, that was mostly the point; Cypha won easily at the end because of the Eclipse. That's something none of the mages could probably fight against without their new devices, and Signum didn't have that. Actually, I think it's a strong sign of Signum's character; even knowing what she was up against, she still did her best to get the "innocents" instead of retreating.
So I don't see it as a knock against Signum at all. You can bet that, when she comes back with a new/upgraded device, she's gonna give Cypha a run for her money. The only thing I'd possibly give a knock to, is that we are shown in the StrikerS manga that you can use magic to strike an AMF target with natural/kinetic forces, ie, Nanoha's Stardust Fall and Fate's use of lightning. So technically speaking, fire should have worked. However, I can think of a decent counterpoint, in that it was probably magic holding the flames together, and once that mana was unlinked, the flames dissipated naturally. Signum would have to work up a mostly non-magical flamethrower of sorts. But yes, Cypha used HAX, but given we had AMF earlier, it was something the TSAB was going to come up against sooner or later. And I'd argue that "likeable" is being used somewhat incorrectly. I found Jail likable (he was just so hammy, but he delivered his performance so well), but Precia I didn't like so much. On the reverse, though, Precia's motivations and reasons for her actions were more understandable to me; everything she did was to get Alicia back because she was suffering the pain of losing the person she loved most. On the other hand, Jail didn't have much reason to him, other than to do the standard mad scientist gig. I can kinda understand, because he was supposedly made to have "infinite desire" but there wasn't much complexity to him. So right now, I like the Huckbein and their "we are a family" nature and motivation to protect that (and others like them, like Thoma). I can understand their motivations. I both understand where they are coming from, and like their actions. Cypha was a bit over the top, but I'm hoping we'll get more individual backstory for her and the rest of the Hucks. |
2010-11-29, 14:18 | Link #26353 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie
|
Quote:
But I do agree that it had to happen, and not just to 'punish' a character for being competent in their first appearance. Imagine if Cypha hadn't done that - people probably wouldn't care nearly as much about her. No publicity is bad publicity, after all. Same with Veyron's first appearance. Actions seem to be stronger than words for them, unlike Jail or Precia. Not saying that's a bad thing, but it felt very overt to me. |
|
2010-11-29, 14:21 | Link #26354 | |||
The Flame Crussader
Join Date: Aug 2009
|
Quote:
There are various and generous examples of cool villains who also had beaten fan favourites but are still interesting or awesome enough to be well received. Makoto Shishio and the Juppon Gattana from Ruroni Kenshin/Samurai X for example, The guy just beat the tar out of nearly all of the main cast and Soujiro completely pwns Kenshin early but they have traits that make them cool and somewhat likable villains, but are still ruthless bloodthirsty villains. So far Cypha's only accomplishment is defeating Sinum in a way that even didn't feel cool or awesome(Shishio and Soujiro pwns because they're just that good, not because of a superior sword or anything) but she gloats like if she just doing the most awesome thing in the world. She looks and try to act like a cool villains but still don't have enough credit to back it up. Quote:
Quote:
Back on Topic: the second is probably a repost xD
__________________
|
|||
2010-11-29, 14:25 | Link #26355 | |
Banned
|
Quote:
If Signum is repeatedly beat down by each new baddie from here on out, then I'd call it the Worf effect. But I think we're jumping the gun a bit. If what happens is what I think might happen, that the real baddies, the scientist group, shows up and claims Thoma while managing to hold off or beat down the Hucks and the TSAB, then you're going to see something similar. People will need to get beat down to show that the scientist group is a threat. Jail did something similar in strikers, when he beat down several of our heroes and the TSAB in general with the peace conference attack. It pretty much needed to happen, because up til then, the drones were mostly jokes; it only took a little training to prep mages for destroying them. Are the people who are complaining about Signum, also raising complaints about Shamal and Zafira? He got beat down fairly easily, and yet got out of bed while still injured to help turn the tide in the final battle (the capture of Otto was what began to tilt things in favor of the TSAB). |
|
2010-11-29, 14:31 | Link #26356 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie
|
Well, I mentioned this on TV Tropes, but the Nanoha series generally plays around with people losing, and justifying it with sneak attacks, more numbers, using weird magic, etc, etc. A lot of those cases are for the 'Worfenritter'. But this is one of the only times they've had someone lose outright because their opponent is stronger, so naturally it feels weird.
I dunno why more people aren't blaming Touma, since his flashback took up more than half of that chapter that could have been spent on the fight. >_> |
2010-11-29, 14:33 | Link #26357 | |
The Flame Crussader
Join Date: Aug 2009
|
Quote:
By this point the Worfenritter are starting to look like a bunch of disposable heroes wannabe.
__________________
|
|
2010-11-29, 15:01 | Link #26359 | |
Left for TFF
Author
|
Quote:
Shee! Worfing only happens if you lose fight after fight! A single loss is NOT worfing someone. Signum loses once, people say she was worfed. No, she wasn't. She was just beaten. Vita and Fate are the Worfs of Nanoha. Really, Fate hasn't won a fight cleanly since S1 (she pulled out her Bankai shonen upgrade on Tre and Sette to beat them). And Vita? When was the last time she beat someone who was remotely tough? A's?
__________________
|
|
Tags |
images, nanoha, nsfw |
|
|