(L) C: The Money of Soul and Possibility Control (w/Kenji Nakamura)

[EroKing]

I doubt Jennifer died in real, just in the financial district and so was transported back to the real world.

[Sumeragi]

Originally Posted by Tempester

.However, I think I've found a glaring plot hole. Kimimaro wants to reverse the rotary press, which would supposedly undo all the major changes Mikuni has been making up to now. This would logically return Japan to the state which it would have been in if Mikuni didn't use the rotary press to stop 「C]. But would this mean that Japan would vanish? I thought Mikuni's actions since episode 9 were a necessary evil to protect Japan even if it meant sacrificing its future. Hopefully, I was wrong and Japan can still be saved from 「C] by other means. I know nothing about economics, but this plot detail keeps bugging me.

My impression is that Kimimaro wants to prevent further use of Japan's future to print out the Midas Money. Basically, it takes a few ours for the money being printed to come out into the world, so if Kimimaro reverses the rotary press, the current printing would be cancaled, and no further future used for the present.

As for how to save Japan from [C]..... seems like Kimimaro doesn't have a clue on that. I figure some of our hero's lectures would help Mikuni figure out a way to not resort to the rotary press, or MAYBE the "higher ups" would intervene. Who knows at this point?

Originally Posted by ipodi

It's best to leave economics out of this since this series follows no logical thoughts when it comes to economic matters. For some reason, "C" can be reversed if Yen becomes worthless. Why? Who knows? But it provides an alternative so that Kimmiro's fight has a purpose (otherwise fighting Mikuni would be silly). Whatever. I have stopped trying to make sense of this series long ago.

I'll be rewatching to make sense of this particular thing. But my guess is that there's a two-fold strategy here: By causing hyperinflation, the Midas money being printed would be worthless, making Mikuni's current plans a failure. At the same time, this sudden inflow of money could also cause chaos with the US's attack on the world at large.

Originally Posted by ipodi

BTW, why are all the players start dying now when they lose the "open deal?" Are we at a point where creator just start making things up as the series comes to a conclusion?

Probably because the dying characters had nothing to fall back on, and hence there was no reason for them to stay around unlike the characters from earlier.

[ipodi]

Originally Posted by Sumeragi

I'll be rewatching to make sense of this particular thing. But my guess is that there's a two-fold strategy here: By causing hyperinflation, the Midas money being printed would be worthless, making Mikuni's current plans a failure. At the same time, this sudden inflow of money could also cause chaos with the US's attack on the world at large.

Yes. In the latest episode, Jennifer and the others are creating a huge inflation in Japan to make Yen worthless. I know what they are doing, what I don't know is how much sense does it make. How can an economy that is going through hyperinflation be good for the present or the future? How can you counteract America by driving your economy into hyperinflation and destroying your own country's currency? Does it make any sense?

Like I said, this show has long given up on logic.

Probably because the dying characters had nothing to fall back on, and hence there was no reason for them to stay around unlike the characters from earlier.

How about that weird dude who lost to Kimmiro? The series has always shown that people would lose something in real life when they lose an open deal. But suddenly, for drama, 2 people just died in the Financial District.

Whatever. I am only in it for the cutesy relationship between Kimmiro and Myshu, I couldn't care less about anything else.

[Deconstructor]

Spoiler for Episode 10:

Originally Posted by ipodi

Yes. In the latest episode, Jennifer and the others are creating a huge inflation in Japan to make Yen worthless. I know what they are doing, what I don't know is how much sense does it make. How can an economy that is going through hyperinflation be good for the present or the future? How can you counteract America by driving your economy into hyperinflation and destroying your own country's currency? Does it make any sense?

Like I said, this show has long given up on logic.

Spoiler tags would be appreciated, but I guess the exciting part is the dramatic fashion in which Jennifer and the others go about executing their insane strategy.

At least give the possibility some thought.

Spoiler for Why the strategy might work:

My guess is there's a positive effect to hyperinflation, because doing so sacrifices the worth of money in the present for the survival of the future. The value of money is partially determined by how much flows through the market - I can assume the Japanese government has decided to open their rotary press as well and print out tons of Yen. However as stated in episode 8, money only has value because people invest their trust in money. So if more money is what it's going to take for people to start having confidence in the future once more, then by all means print out some more money.

While the above paragraph probably won't make sense to many people, by the show's own logic I think it's plausible.

Spoiler for Episode 10 - More Spoilers:

How about that weird dude who lost to Kimmiro? The series has always shown that people would lose something in real life when they lose an open deal. But suddenly, for drama, 2 people just died in the Financial District.

Do you mean Sennoza (the guy who believed in the future) or someone from episode 10? If the latter, then I have no idea... spoiler tags again!

Whatever. I am only in it for the cutesy relationship between Kimmiro and Myshu, I couldn't care less about anything else.

This seems like a bad justification to watch C... Kimimaro and Mashu's relationship is a plot thread, but of lower priority in the face of Southeast Asia disappearing (and the rest of the world feeling C's aftereffects).

Admit it, you watch C for the plot as well. Certainly you seem to be more critical of the economic influences, but that's how I can tell you're seriously engaged.

[Soconfused]

Well, Jennifer gave her "future" away before she was defeated, so I assume she is actually dead as she literally has no future. :P

[ipodi]

Originally Posted by Deconstructor

Spoiler tags would be appreciated, but I guess the exciting part is the dramatic fashion in which Jennifer and the others go about executing their insane strategy.

At least give the possibility some thought.

Apologies - I didn't use spoiler tags because the plot has already been discussed in the upstream (all without spoiler tags). Sorry if I give anything away.

I prefer not to give any thoughts to the series at this point. People die suddenly even though that was never discussed previously? The creator just bent the rules to tie up the loose ends.

Spoiler for Why the strategy might work:

My guess is there's a positive effect to hyperinflation, because doing so sacrifices the worth of money in the present for the survival of the future. The value of money is partially determined by how much flows through the market - I can assume the Japanese government has decided to open their rotary press as well and print out tons of Yen. However as stated in episode 8, money only has value because people invest their trust in money. So if more money is what it's going to take for people to start having confidence in the future once more, then by all means print out some more money.

While the above paragraph probably won't make sense to many people, by the show's own logic I think it's plausible.

Admittedly, this all makes sense by the series' own internal logic. Which is why I recommend people not to think about it and just watch the series since the conception of money is no longer grounded in reality.

Do you mean Sennoza (the guy who believed in the future) or someone from episode 10? If the latter, then I have no idea... spoiler tags again!

Spoiler for episode 10:

I was referring to the guy who fought Kimmiro in Episode 10. He apparently died after losing.

This seems like a bad justification to watch C... Kimimaro and Mashu's relationship is a plot thread, but of lower priority in the face of Southeast Asia disappearing (and the rest of the world feeling C's aftereffects).

Nope. I don't care about the Financial District or its ramifications. After 10 episodes, we still don't know why it is set up, who sets it up, and why it is collapsing. If the creator doesn't bother to develop this plot, then why should I care about it? By contrast, we know why Kimmiro cares about Mashu, how their relationship has progressed, and what motivated Mashu's behaviors. The relationship is better developed than the whole Financial District concept.

Admit it, you watch C for the plot as well. Certainly you seem to be more critical of the economic influences, but that's how I can tell you're seriously engaged.

I read the subtitles so I know how ridiculous this whole "C" event is. Just because I read the subtitles it doesn't mean I care about what is going on or what will happen. For example, I don't care if Mikuno dies or that the entire Financial District disappears or whether Japan can be saved. But I would be disappointed if the the relationship between Kimmiro and Mashu doesn't come to a satisfying conclusion.

[Deconstructor]

Originally Posted by ipodi

Admittedly, this all makes sense by the series' own internal logic. Which is why I recommend people not to think about it and just watch the series since the conception of money is no longer grounded in reality.

Spoiler for Counter-argument against myself:

Truthfully, what I wrote makes little sense to me... printing more money, after the guy who just printed a crapload of money makes things horribly worse... maybe the writers thought their actions would cancel out or something. Sadly I believe repeating someone's mistake also repeats the consequences.

However I do note the difference: Mikuni printed out Midas Money, while I assume Jennifer is printing out real money. Actually, I kind of understand her logic... when the Midas Money disappears, people are going to panic about where all their money went. Unless, of course, real money takes it's place.

Well, I'll have more to say after viewing episode 10.

I read the subtitles so I know how ridiculous this whole "C" event is. Just because I read the subtitles it doesn't mean I care about what is going on or what will happen. For example, I don't care if Mikuno dies or that the entire Financial District disappears or whether Japan can be saved. But I would be disappointed if the the relationship between Kimmiro and Mashu doesn't come to a satisfying conclusion.

I guess you don't put value on what happens outside of Kimimaro and Mashu... but you are eager to explain why you don't care. In a sense you do care, not about the content but why it's so ignorant of economic theory.

[ipodi]

Originally Posted by Deconstructor

I guess you don't put value on what happens outside of Kimimaro and Mashu... but you are eager to explain why you don't care. In a sense you do care, not about the content but why it's so ignorant of economic theory.

Of course I had to explain why I didn't care about the plot. Opinions need to be back up by sound arguments. I don't care about the plot, but I care whether my opinions can be back up or not.

[kk2extreme]

Originally Posted by TheEroKing

I doubt Jennifer died in real, just in the financial district and so was transported back to the real world.

No body lives long after bankruptcy

[orion]

Originally Posted by TheEroKing

I doubt Jennifer died in real, just in the financial district and so was transported back to the real world.

I too am in the "Jennifer is dead." camp. She gave away her future before she went bankrupt so the House has nothing left to take in return but her life.

[Lumir]

Oooh talk about build up. Looks like the final battle is about to happen. Seems like someone above wants to see the battle between the two super powers since they gave our main character the black card =).

So does he now have two assests? And it was funny to see a C representative of North America talking to the C representative of Japan. "We have many entrepreneurs".

[thundrakkon]

Originally Posted by Deconstructor

Spoiler tags would be appreciated...

spoiler tags again!

Originally Posted by ipodi

Apologies - I didn't use spoiler tags because the plot has already been discussed in the upstream (all without spoiler tags). Sorry if I give anything away.

It has been mentioned many, many times by moderators that once an episode airs and has subtitles, they prefer that posters no longer use spoiler tags to discuss the episode, as it creates an inconvenience to readers to continually click on the spoiler tags. Of course, all other spoiler policies still apply. Spoiler Policy

I have been watching these episodes without trying to think too much, which makes it more enjoyable. The logic that is currently being used is very confusing and is contrary to what I have learnt and what I see in reality. As a person who has worked in the real world financial district for many years, I see Yoga's actions as really naive and destructive to society.

I guess C has its own rules and laws of society that does not completely correlate to the rules and laws of society that we live in, so I will have to take what they do with a grain of salt.

I enjoy the show, but I really have to shut down my trying to logically understand it in order to do so.

[ars89]

Like that info guy. He has all the know how and tools. Like how he stole the money and gave it to the people.

So Jennifer died and left Yoga her darkness card. What an awesome back up plan.

Msyu's attack was awesome. Now the final fight is set up. Can't wait to see how it plays out.

[Endrance]

Gotta say my favorite part of the episode was american masakaki and the techniques used by the assets which were quite the mouthful to say. What happens when people are bankrupt is still confusing me though.

[Deconstructor]

Originally Posted by thundrakkon

It has been mentioned many, many times by moderators that once an episode airs and has subtitles, they prefer that posters no longer use spoiler tags to discuss the episode, as it creates an inconvenience to readers to continually click on the spoiler tags. Of course, all other spoiler policies still apply. Spoiler Policy

Indeed and I don't believe someone has subtitled episode 10 (as I write this post). Of course I could be wrong... but someone shoot me a message if I am.

[Sumeragi]

Originally Posted by Deconstructor

Indeed and I don't believe someone has subtitled episode 10 (as I write this post). Of course I could be wrong... but someone shoot me a message if I am.

It's been subtitled like, more than 12 hours ago.

[Triple_R]

I think that C has a few points to make about the real world of economics, but they're primarily at a basic "layman's" level. At least this is the case unless the final episode has a significant twist to it, or somehow ties all the economic jargon and symbolism together in a way that is complex but coherent, and I'm doubtful of that.

C's main theme seems to be a general overarching one about how it's not good to continually sacrifice the future for the sake of the present. As it pertains to economics directly, it appears to be arguing against deficit spending, with the implicit suggestion that such spending is a case of helping the present at the expense of the future.


Aside from that, however, C has the feel of a classic (but short) shounen tale to me now. Which is an unexpected twist for me, as I didn't really expect it to go in that direction after the first few episodes.

The way everything is building up to a climatic battle between Kimimaro and Mikuni is distinctively shounen, as is Kimimaro's gradually growing clarity (but simplicity) of purpose. As shounen goes, the drama in this one is expertly executed, with brisk gripping pacing, and an effective conveyance of grave importance to almost everything that is going on. My biggest compliment for C would likely be here, as it has that blend of combat action with theatrical dramatic strokes that I tend to greatly love. C's particular blending of it has been notably effective in this episode and the one prior to it.

That being said, C's weaknesses are clear to me now.

Its shift in scale from a story dealing strictly with Kimimaro and his immediate circle of friends, allies, and foes to a story with profound global implications is a bit rushed, and jarring. But then, some of that is due to the 11 episode time constraints. Even just a couple more episodes could have helped C a lot here.

The entertainment value of "deals" lives and dies purely on the basis of how good the combat looks, which is to say that I have no appreciation for the tactical side of it (like I did for most Code Geass battles, say) as the rules of "Deals" combat have never been clearly stated and laid out in an easily understandable way.


That being said, I thoroughly enjoyed the "Deals" in this episode, for a change, as they both looked great (with Msyu's ultimate attack being the definite highlight, and certainly worth the wait). They leave me cautiously optimistic about the finale for C, and how good its climatic "Deal" will be.


I also like how the relationship between Kimimaro and Msyu has developed, for the most part. Kimimaro wimped out a bit on potential romance, which was disappointing to me, but I still appreciate the time and effort the anime writers have put into gradually developing this relationship that is a central one in C. It makes me care a bit more about both characters than I likely otherwise would.


All-told, I would give Episode 10 of C a 9/10. In all likelihood, the series as a whole will get a 8/10 from me.

[Calca]

It seems the American version of Masasaki (we'll call him Jimmy since America wouldn't name a guy Masasaki) is an even bigger asshole than Masasaki himself.

I for one welcome our new octopus overlord and his assistant, The Mad Hatter.

[Tempester]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Aside from that, however, C has the feel of a classic (but short) shounen tale to me now. Which is an unexpected twist for me, as I didn't really expect it to go in that direction after the first few episodes.

The way everything is building up to a climatic battle between Kimimaro and Mikuni is distinctively shounen, as is Kimimaro's gradually growing clarity (but simplicity) of purpose. As shounen goes, the drama in this one is expertly executed, with brisk gripping pacing, and an effective conveyance of grave importance to almost everything that is going on. My biggest compliment for C would likely be here, as it has that blend of combat action with theatrical dramatic strokes that I tend to greatly love. C's particular blending of it has been notably effective in this episode and the one prior to it.

Intriguing analysis. I hope by 'shounen' you actually mean shounen action like Noein, Sengoku Basara and Gurren Lagann, because the shounen demographic encompasses a huge range of genres. I don't think Aria, Lucky Star, and Toradora, all of which are shounen, are what you had in mind when you wrote that.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

That being said, C's weaknesses are clear to me now.

Its shift in scale from a story dealing strictly with Kimimaro and his immediate circle of friends, allies, and foes to a story with profound global implications is a bit rushed, and jarring. But then, some of that is due to the 11 episode time constraints. Even just a couple more episodes could have helped C a lot here.

I agree. Noitamina's 11-episode limit has hindered this anime's ambitious story. Although you could probably blame Takagi Noboru (the writer) for making it so ambitious in the first place when it was meant to have 11 episodes from the beginning.

[EroKing]

Originally Posted by orion

I too am in the "Jennifer is dead." camp. She gave away her future before she went bankrupt so the House has nothing left to take in return but her life.

I'm still hoping to see her pillowy mounds once again in the last episode