Why are people still sticking to old and outdated technology?

[DryFire]

Originally Posted by Cyprene

No, but the fact that it works OK for you doesn't mean that anybody else who is having problems is stupid or lazy. Most of the time it works right, but the rate of bizarre failures, especially for more complicated files, is high enough that it's not worth the trouble to use.

You think avi lacks bizarre failures? I've been witness to many (mostly in the form of raws of share), esp in the earlier days of H264. Just because any fool who can use a 1 click encoder can make a playable avi file doesn't mean avi is more robust--I think you can do this with mkv now, but 1 click encoders are not my specialty. For a more recent example, DB released a borked naruto avi a few weeks ago that almost(?) no one could get to play (though they quickly released a fixed version).

Your theoretical prowess means little here. For instance, we're testing out a 1M fps camera in the lab I work in and while a prof. who helped design it is a part of the same uni he is no better at taking photographs than an average (or slightly above average) user even though he could design a chip to do so.

[Cyprene]

Your theoretical prowess means little here. For instance, we're testing out a 1M fps camera in the lab I work in and while a prof. who helped design it is a part of the same uni he is no better at taking photographs than an average (or slightly above average) user even though he could design a chip to do so.

I'm not claiming any kind of genius, just saying since the defense seemed to be "You're too stupid to understand how to install the software." Now it's shifted to "Well, AVIs can be bad too!", which is true, if somewhat uninteresting.

[checkers]

No, but the fact that it works OK for you doesn't mean that anybody else who is having problems is stupid or lazy. Most of the time it works right, but the rate of bizarre failures, especially for more complicated files, is high enough that it's not worth the trouble to use.

Have you asked for help at all from any of the CCCP group? Your friend, or many other people in the forums/irc will surely sort any issues out rather quickly.

[juggen]

I actually have witnessed were CCCP+MPC failed miserable, and I still don't know the reason why.
A friend got few codec problems, and I was like: "You dumb shit, use CCCP ffs".
Tried installing it on his comp, and what do u know, shit play even worse.

Except from this one time, I haven't witnessed a single time uninstalling all previous codecs+installing or reinstalling CCCP+re-registering filters didn't do the trick.

[False Dawn]

Okay, I see Cyprene's point about CCCP but... as checkers says, there's an active number of people who troubleshoot queries for people on irc. If it's a catastrophic fail that uninstalling and reinstalling CCCP won't fix, then I'm pretty sure they have a high success rate of sorting out problems.

It's not like no-one offers playback help. When a "fan" (the few that my groups have ) asks for help with codecs, I generally help out too, without going "you're stupid" - I think the only stupid ones are the ones who don't bother and don't ask for help.

Moral of the story: ask your nearest friendly fansubber! ^_^

[Nicholi]

Bizarre problems only go away one way. Reporting them. Ignoring them and hope they go away will not work. MKV is here to stay . So you can be the 1 in millions that has bizarre problems, or you can be part of the solution to make them go away...if at least only for you. Haali is a very easy man to talk to :P.

P.S. CCCP is now up to an estimated 370k downloads per month. Google tells me so @_@!

Originally Posted by Cyprene

Well, no. I have an electrical and computer engineering degree, and am good friends with the guy who maintains the CCCP. I know more about encoding theory than most translators, hell I probably know more about the fundamental mathmatics than you do. And I still can't get the damn thing to work right more than 80% of the time. It doesn't stop right, it detects subtitles that aren't there... it's just a hassle, and it's one that I don't really see the need for.

I am guessing you are talking about Myrsloik (or maybe even Lord)...because other then those two... I am the only one who really "maintains" (see codes) the CCCP though I've been extremely absent lately ;-;. I haven't really seen you in the channel nor heard about "bizarre man" (though I'm not really there much) so I am guessing you either never came to the channel/forum with the problem (we have a diverse range of krayzie heads, two heads are better than one), or brought up the problem and said person didn't want to help you (sounds like it could be grumpy Myrsloik to me ). Personally I haven't seen someone come along with a REAL bug dealing with MKV software in a long time. Though I've probably seen it hundreds of times now where people are just doing things wrong or have never installed their drivers/installed wrong drivers/installed conflicting codecs/etc/etc/etc (thus resulting in the software not working), but very few bugs in the software.

Originally Posted by Cyprene

And I really resent the attitude that you should just "Buy a nicer computer!" if you have trouble playing it; I know during most of my college years I couldn't, and it's a pretty big hurdle for a lot of our international viewers as well. You're free to release everything you want in MKV, and you're free to call the rest of us dinosaurs. But Shinsen's philosophy has always been to tilt the balance between video quality and availability towards the side of availability; it's part of our philosophy that these shows should be seen by the widest audience available.

I am guessing you were referring to someone else (though I have no idea who) because I didn't say "get a new computer". I just said you probably don't have the right software installed, which should have a subclause which also states "the proper software installed correctly."

[Ichihara Asako]

You do have to admit, Nicholi, there are the occasional (if only one in a million) computers that really do just... fail at doing something. I've worked with enough friends/family/work machines to know that there really are just some that hate certain applications for no apparent reason. Resolving such issues can be really difficult even to somebody well versed in troubleshooting and/or the application(s) in question.

While I personally haven't had a single issue with MKV since getting CCCP (and very few before it, really.) and none of my friends have (as I recommend CCCP+MPC for all video playback to everybody) one of my brother's computers absolutely detests it for no discernible reason at all. Even after a fresh format, install of XP, correct video/audio drivers, and CCCP with no other sort of 'codec' packs having been present, it still has weird issues with numerous files. Granted, it is a shitbox, not a media box, so it's a non-issue to him and we've never bothered trying to resolve it seriously, but it just points out that some machines, not necessarily the user, do have 'issues'. Though 99.998% of the time it is the user. I worked in support for far too long and know that way too well. >.<

[Nicholi]

Well I do admit there is no such thing as software without bugs (unless it's insanely simple)...but you can't really do much about broken hardware besides...replace it.

Originally Posted by Ichihara Asako

Though 99.998% of the time it is the user. I worked in support for far too long and know that way too well. >.<

Indeed...once you start helping people...the conclusion is almost always user error. PEBKAC is fun.

[edogawaconan]

anyone saying AVI is easier to work with should be stabbed.
I've successfully made some messed up avi (from too-complex-for-avi xvid setting to mysterious low-setting-xvid and cbr-mp3 muxing problem)

mkv is just... easier

[Daiz]

They probably mean that AVI is easier to work with for the endusers, in other words, people playing the files.

For encoders and the people who actually make the files, MKV is in completely different league than AVI, for obvious reasons.

[max2k]

Originally Posted by Daiz

They probably mean that AVI is easier to work with for the endusers, in other words, people playing the files.

I think if we would start a encoder consperacy, we could make AVI as hard to handle for endusers as MKV. Release some more evil h264 in AVI encodes, some hacks for exotic Audio streams, even some exotic high BVOB + packetbitstream...
In the End effect we would get the same user complaining over AVI, that now are complaining over MKV.

But i encode most of my encodes in Xvid/SP compatible.

[Tiamat's Disciple]

I prefer .avi, always have and always will. When i dl an .mkv file i always reencode it to .avi. But then i always reencode the .avi to .rmvb aswell reduces 175mb file to 75mb. Sure you lose a little quality, but it's negligible, if you've set up the encoder right. Plus if it's a show i like, i always buy the DVD's.

[martino]

Originally Posted by Tiamat's Disciple

I prefer .avi, always have and always will. When i dl an .mkv file i always reencode it to .avi. But then i always reencode the .avi to .rmvb aswell reduces 175mb file to 75mb. Sure you lose a little quality, but it's negligible, if you've set up the encoder right. Plus if it's a show i like, i always buy the DVD's.

If all you care about is filesize, H.264 compresses better than RV3/4...

(Beats me whether AAC compresses better than RA, but my guess would be "yes".)

[Tiamat's Disciple]

Maybe, though i've not seen anything to back that up. However i prefer .rmvb because it so easy. Drag the files over, click start, and thats it. I don't need any other knowledge or anything. Plus they play on my old laptop which is great. Since it's not powerful enough to play h.264, and i can't afford to replace it. Nor do i see the need to, since it runs everything else i use perfectly

[Dark Shikari]

Originally Posted by martino

If all you care about is filesize, H.264 compresses better than RV3/4...

(Beats me whether AAC compresses better than RA, but my guess would be "yes".)

Yup, H.264 beats RV3/4 by a very wide margin.

HE-AAC is guaranteed to beat all other formats at low bitrates due to its (patented) spectral band replication and parametric stereo.

[jfs]

So how about people start producing relatively low complexity H.264 encodes in MP4 container with AAC audio, at low bitrates? Something that plays pretty much anywhere. (Here I'm thinking stock QuickTime, stock Xbox 360 and PS3 and probably a bunch more. Windows boxes will still require some extra software such as CCCP.)

How about even making those files along with putting out those insane AVI files that won't play anywhere? :P

[TheFluff]

Originally Posted by jfs

MP4

And I thought I could trust you ;_;

[Dark Shikari]

Originally Posted by jfs

So how about people start producing relatively low complexity H.264 encodes in MP4 container with AAC audio, at low bitrates? Something that plays pretty much anywhere. (Here I'm thinking stock QuickTime, stock Xbox 360 and PS3 and probably a bunch more. Windows boxes will still require some extra software such as CCCP.)

Quicktime, as far as I know, still has extremely limited H.264 support with all sorts of weird limitations.

All hardware devices have DPB restrictions, and more often than not, arbitrary restrictions on resolution and B-frames and whatnot that don't even make sense and ignore the standard (*COUGH* PureVideo HD).

MP4 container has mediocre subtitle support, which really angers fansubbers.

HE-AAC is, surprisingly, supported far less on hardware than you'd think.

The reason that the Scene requires MKV for modern HD rips is the same reason we should use it; there is such a massive menagerie of hardware that with conflicting support for different things that there's no point in trying to make a rip that will play on even a majority of it. And remember--back in the days, the Scene used restricted DivX/Xvid because of the DivX player hardware support--yet even they realized that the new formats were not going to have unified hardware support for years.

And honestly, if someone can't play H.264 with CoreAVC at standard definition resolutions, they seriously need to upgrade their computer.

[Tiamat's Disciple]

Originally Posted by Dark Shikari

And honestly, if someone can't play H.264 with CoreAVC at standard definition resolutions, they seriously need to upgrade their computer.

Oh, are you offering to pay? Not everyone can afford to upgrade their machines, or don't see the need to pay for unnecessary upgrades, and tyes they are unnecessary if it's an upgrade solely to play h.264

[TheFluff]

Originally Posted by Tiamat's Disciple

Oh, are you offering to pay? Not everyone can afford to upgrade their machines, or don't see the need to pay for unnecessary upgrades, and tyes they are unnecessary if it's an upgrade solely to play h.264

Since you obviously do not have any problems with pirating anime, why should you have any problems with pirating CoreAVC?

Actually anyone who can't play SD resolution H.264 with ffdshow really needs to upgrade; <800 MHz machines aren't that useful for much at all anymore except surfing the internet and word processing.
(I doubt you actually have a laptop that can't play SD H.264 for lack of processing power; you're probably just doing it wrong in general.)