Kyoukai Senjou no Horizon - General Discussion

[Kunagisa]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

There seem to be three plotlines running at the same time, one is Toori's confession, the other is the political situation with the four factions (Musashi, Mikawa, Espana and Italia), and the last is the Nobles that have been spirited away, aka kidnapped.

What significances does the last one have?

This was explained in episode 2 by Masazumi, then referenced again in episode 3 by Asama and further explained by Toussaint; in a nut shell, supernatural events (spiriting away) are occurring, which are rumored to be related to the end of the world.

This is the same event that happened in episode 4, but translators decided to be silly and translated it differently.

We do not know how they are related (yet), if at all.

[Suzuku]

Originally Posted by thundrakkon

Yes, and in the process, it uses a lot of jargon that is hard to understand. From your perspective and prior knowledge of the series, it might seem complete and crafty. However, for someone new to the series, it can be a bit confusing.

I had as much prior knowledge of the series coming into the first episode as anyone who has read the basic synopsis and just did bare minimum research on the factions and such. Just watch episodes 1-4 and pay attention. Refer to this whenever you come across a word you don't understand and seems important. It's really not that hard.

The motivations and reasons are very incoherent right now. The story unique jargon does not help. There are too many factions with too many different agendas.

There are a lot of factions and such but barely any of them have been focused on yet. The only thing going on right now is that K.P.A. Italia came to Mikawa to discuss Deadly Sin Armaments, Tres Espana soldiers were sent to guard the Pope-President of K.P.A Italia, Innocentus, and now Matsudaira is planning to go against the Testament Union and begin the Genesis Project that Tadatsugu believes will save the world from apocalypse. Other than that, there's just Toori wanting to confess to Horizon. The info is being given bit by bit and if you find it too confusing now then I can't imagine when the story actually kicks into gear and the other factions really do start showing up. :/

[Duo Maxwell]

Originally Posted by thundrakkon

A good anime is one that explains things to the viewer as the anime progresses. If it requires the reader to go outside the source and research on it, it is no better than telling the viewers to go buy its novels.

Anything without current world or school setting required some prior reading before watching, as far as I know.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by stuopidget

This was explained in episode 2 by Masazumi, then referenced again in episode 3 by Asama and further explained by Toussaint; in a nut shell, supernatural events (spiriting away) are occurring, which are rumored to be related to the end of the world.

This is the same event that happened in episode 4, but translators decided to be silly and translated it differently.

We do not know how they are related (yet), if at all.

I know it was mentioned before by those individuals, but I thought of them as minor incidents, or just something to deal with later in the story. But given how this happened while in the middle of a big crisis, I was wondering how are they related and if there is something that I had missed.

[Kunagisa]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

I know it was mentioned before by those individuals, but I thought of them as minor incidents, or just something to deal with later in the story. But given how this happened while in the middle of a big crisis, I was wondering how are they related and if there is something that I had missed.

You didn't miss anything.

Though I think it's normal to be confused (I mean in general for the viewers, not you in particular), the characters in the story made it clear they have no idea wtf's going on either (except for Mr. Firework).

[Last Sinner]

There's only one type of anime fan I know IRL that is liking this and they explained why to me a couple of nights ago.

'It's hilariously bad. It's troll. It's silly. It's offensive. It's all those things I like for a show I can switch my brain off to and see Sunrise being in troll mode.'
'So since it's funny for you but not me for me, I shouldn't bother, right?'
'Correct. You are not a troll. I am a troll. You're not into hilariously bad shows and excessively large casts like I am. This is not for you. This is for me.'

According to other people I've spoken to, hasn't this already cracked the Manabi line on DVD pre-orders?

[Marcus H.]

'It's hilariously bad. It's troll. It's silly. It's offensive. It's all those things I like for a show I can switch my brain off to and see Sunrise being in troll mode.'
'So since it's funny for you but not me for me, I shouldn't bother, right?'
'Correct. You are not a troll. I am a troll. You're not into hilariously bad shows and excessively large casts like I am. This is not for you. This is for me.'

Welp.

Positive interpretation: Watching this needs acquired taste in anime series.
Negative interpretation: Only trolls and masochists watch this series.

I hope you didn't just generalize the fanbase of Horizon based on a single anecdote.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Last Sinner

According to other people I've spoken to, hasn't this already cracked the Manabi line on DVD pre-orders?

Lol, the Manabi line is so far gone the other way- This has already surpass the 10k line.

[Suzuku]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Lol, the Manabi line is so far gone the other way- This has already surpass the 10k line.

No, it hasn't yet. It's projected to though if it keeps up at its current pace.

[Last Sinner]

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

Welp.

Positive interpretation: Watching this needs acquired taste in anime series.
Negative interpretation: Only trolls and masochists watch this series.

I hope you didn't just generalize the fanbase of Horizon based on a single anecdote.

Not at all. Sales and quality rarely correlate in this industry. My point being that humour is always subjective. As is 'acquired taste'. Look, if it rocks your boat, good on you. Enjoy it.

Originally Posted by thundrakkon

A good anime is one that explains things to the viewer as the anime progresses. If it requires the reader to go outside the source and research on it, it is no better than telling the viewers to go buy its novels.

I understand that you have extensive knowledge on the series, and your explainations are very helpful. However, the average viewer should not be forced to go outside of anime itself to understand the content of the story.

What he said is part of why I couldn't continue with this. I also considered introducing the world setting within the ending credits pretty darn insulting.

[Marcus H.]

Not at all. Sales and quality rarely correlate in this industry. My point being that humour is always subjective. As is 'acquired taste'. Look, if it rocks your boat, good on you. Enjoy it.

Fair enough.

[Kunagisa]

Originally Posted by Last Sinner

There's only one type of anime fan I know IRL that is liking this and they explained why to me a couple of nights ago.

'It's hilariously bad. It's troll. It's silly. It's offensive. It's all those things I like for a show I can switch my brain off to and see Sunrise being in troll mode.'
'So since it's funny for you but not me for me, I shouldn't bother, right?'
'Correct. You are not a troll. I am a troll. You're not into hilariously bad shows and excessively large casts like I am. This is not for you. This is for me.'

According to other people I've spoken to, hasn't this already cracked the Manabi line on DVD pre-orders?

Out of curiosity, did this conversation happen before you wrote your review for episode 1 or after?

[Last Sinner]

Originally Posted by stuopidget

Out of curiosity, did this conversation happen before you wrote your review for episode 1 or after?

After. I wrote that last week. My Gundam/manly troll/Type-Moon fan/Sci-fi old school fan/hardcore gamer/M.D. Geist-#2 in-the-world-fan friend talked about it with me on Tuesday. In fact, it was the ONLY thing he would talk about.

[thundrakkon]

Originally Posted by stuopidget

I explained the reasoning and solution Sunrise came up with for this in the previous post, you might've missed this while typing up that response. Keep in mind the anime's made for Japanese audiences primarily, they don't really find it troublesome reading a few words online before the story.

Thanks, reading the glossary really helped.

Originally Posted by stuopidget

It's very simple.

K.P.A. Italia goes to Mikawa to talk about Deadly Sin Armament (episode 2)
Tres Espania is just escorting K.P.A. Italia (episode 3)
Mikawa is preparing firework is connected to the Genesis Plan; we have no idea what this is (episode 2). The firework is the explosion of the nuclear reactor (episode 4)
Musashi, the chancellor is preparing to confess to someone, and they're having a party (episode 2-4)

So to simplify this even more.

K.P.A Italia and Tres Espania visits Mikawa to talk about weapons the same time Musashi docks there.

Is there anything else that confuse you?

Originally Posted by Suzuku

There are a lot of factions and such but barely any of them have been focused on yet. The only thing going on right now is that K.P.A. Italia came to Mikawa to discuss Deadly Sin Armaments, Tres Espana soldiers were sent to guard the Pope-President of K.P.A Italia, Innocentus, and now Matsudaira is planning to go against the Testament Union and begin the Genesis Project that Tadatsugu believes will save the world from apocalypse. Other than that, there's just Toori wanting to confess to Horizon.

Thanks for the summary explaination.

I originally read your explainations before referring to the glossary, and it was as confusing as the series itself due to all the terminology. After reading the glossary terms, your explainations make perfect sense.

I do have a greater understanding of the series now, thanks to you all.

I just feel that it is unfortunate that you have to refer to a website of terminology in order to be able to understand the series. I feel that this series lost a lot of its viewers due to this very fact (confusing the viewer). Again, if there is anyone to blame, it is the anime production staff.

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

This series is probably as challenging to inexperienced viewers of sci-fi/fantasy series as Game of Thrones. But at least you get a glossary in the website.

Ohhhh, Game of Thrones. What an excellent series with excellent execution. I did not find that series confusing at all, although I had to explain a lot of the concepts and what was happening to my gf, even though she would have been fine without the explaination.

Originally Posted by Suzuku

Refer to this whenever you come across a word you don't understand and seems important. It's really not that hard.

Thanks for the link. It explained quite a bit of the concepts.

Originally Posted by Last Sinner

I also considered introducing the world setting within the ending credits pretty darn insulting.

I completely agree.

[articuzwolf]

Originally Posted by stuopidget

This was explained in episode 2 by Masazumi, then referenced again in episode 3 by Asama and further explained by Toussaint; in a nut shell, supernatural events (spiriting away) are occurring, which are rumored to be related to the end of the world.

I assume that it was taken from the bibile?

(from Supernatural TV Series LOL, yeah too lazy to read the bible or even read article about it in wikipedia pages :P)

I knew that before Apocalypse supernatural events happen everywhere, the dead comes back alive, horsemen appear, etc2

The loli ghost in eps 4 might have a correlation with Apocalypse afterall...

[Marcus H.]

although I had to explain a lot of the concepts and what was happening to my gf

This and posting the unfamiliar terms on the official website is not that different from each other.

[Kunagisa]

Originally Posted by Last Sinner

After. I wrote that last week. My Gundam/manly troll/Type-Moon fan/Sci-fi old school fan/hardcore gamer/M.D. Geist-#2 in-the-world-fan friend talked about it with me on Tuesday. In fact, it was the ONLY thing he would talk about.

Haha, too bad you don't enjoy the series as much as your friend.

Maybe stick around from time to time and check out random youtube links just to see the animation sequence and see if that change your mind. I doubt much will change your opinion after reading your review, but you never know right?!

One thing I just want to clear up though. The initial surge in pre-orders came from the light novel fans before airing, then the fans who watched episode 1 and loved the action sequences, the pre-orders dipped during episode 2-3 and rose sharply for 4 because of the animation again.

It's fine if you decide not to watch the series, but don't listen too much to your friend as it's not all fanservice and troll. In fact, there is only one instance of skin showing so far. I would hate for you to leave the series thinking it is fanservice based. The big boobs thing is totally because the author's a boob-con, and he has a hand in character design, so much so that he spent the entire first page of the book explaining why he designed the main heroine that way. All the gianormous boobs you see are partially just due his "terrible" taste and absolutely nothing to do with Sunrise animating them that way.

Originally Posted by thundrakkon

I just feel that it is unfortunate that you have to refer to a website of terminology in order to be able to understand the series. I feel that this series lost a lot of its viewers due to this very fact (confusing the viewer). Again, if there is anyone to blame, it is the anime production staff.

I do agree on the unfortunate part. Just some background information that you might be interested (totally unrelated to the story).

The project was originally deemed impossible to adapt because there is really too much information. The team still decided to try to animate this, so in a way they're kinda challenging themselves. I honestly thought the adaptation is really good given there are just so many things that can go wrong.

Just take a step backward though, the terms sound like generic RPG terms, so if the glossary does not exist, the meaning of the terminologies can still be understood by inferring from the dialogue between the characters. The series is just difficult to understand even by native speakers, so for us reading the translation, the confusion is likely increased even more but not because of poor script if you get what I'm saying.

Therefore, I hope you don't fault Sunrise too much for doing what they do. The glossary is entirely optional, and I just think it is a very nice gesture for them to do it (even though it takes almost no effort on their part).

Originally Posted by articuzwolf

I assume that it was taken from the bibile?

(from Supernatural TV Series) I knew that before Apocalypse supernatural events happen everywhere, the dead comes back alive, horsemen appear, etc2

The loli ghost in eps 4 might have a correlation with Apocalypse afterall...

I'm as lost as you regarding this part.

[Morisato]

Are these robots really called Gods of War? Are they piloted or are they actually sentient robots like the mecha dragon in Toori's group? I expected them to be fodder (mass produced mechas generally are) but only one of them was enough to push back a named character.

And is Kazuno or Musashi stronger?

[articuzwolf]

Originally Posted by stuopidget

I'm as lost as you regarding this part.

before the apocalypse, (from what I've watched) the supernatural events happen around the world like the dead rising, horsemen of apocalypse appear, etc

in Episode 3 Asama said that currently supernatural events going on around the world as the rumoured Apocalypse approaches, including the spirited away/lost nobles

and then Ghost loli made appearances in episode 4 (Can I assume this as the dead rising?)

that's why I thought that this anime is referencing to the bible (for apocalypse part)

and sorry for my poor explanation

[Marcus H.]

Gods of War (alternate translation: Divine Armaments) are actually piloted by humans who are merged with the unit. How they exactly work is unknown.