Ichigo and Rukia? or Ichigo and Orihime?

[evenex]

Originally Posted by ashesatdusk

@ Starwing

Spoiler:

>The thing is though, we're talking about circumstances, and Kubo controls all circumstances in the plot. If he wanted, he could easily have made someone tell Ichigo about Chad and caused Ichigo to turn back. He didn't.

So therefore, Ichigo probably would've gone back if he's been told that his friends are dead. But he DIDN'T because the situation didn't arise. Why didn't the situation arise? Because Kubo didn't write it. Why didn't Kubo write it? Because it wasn't as important as the fact that Ichigo turned back for Rukia specifically.

Using the fact that 'Ichigo would've gone back for any of them' in this case is purely hypothetical because he hasn't yet. Rather, the opposite has more evidence. Ichigo HAS felt his friends endangered before and did practically nothing.

270 did feel significant to me because this is only the third time Ichigo forgot his duties. 1) running from Shrieker to get Karin home, it's his sister, and we know how much he dotes on his sisters. 2) Getting sidetracked with Ganju in SS, which was for comedic purposes and I'm not sure how much it's significant. 3) Here in HM, where he turned back for Rukia.

Getting sidetracked is something that Ichigo just doesn't do. You can almost say it's out of character, and only a few situations and people has caused him to act OOC, this is one of them.


1. The significance is the fact Ichigo is turning around for Rukia? Rukia's the only person in that situation at the moment. Everyone else is alive or in middle of a fight. My point is you don't know how Ichigo would act if its another character. The Mangaka has not drawn that situation, I don't its occured at any other time. Yes his friends have been endangered and he's done practically nothing, at the same time I don't think he actually thought any of them would die. This situation is unique in the case, that he's been told one of his Nakama is dead, and he knows at the least in mortal peril. My point is not he would do the same for any of them. My point is you can't say that this is significant because he's going back for Rukia, because you don't know what he'd do if it was one of his another nakama.

2. You can argue that point is irrelavant, because the Mangaka did not draw the other situations, and the mangaka controls everything in bleach. But that still does not entail that the fact, Ichigo going after Rukia is a significant sign of anything supporting IchixRukia. Sure he's going after Rukia, but what is the significance is decided by the Mangaka not anyone else. The arguments we have are a result of how we choose to interpret things.


I've read 270 over and over, and I'm not seeing what some are claiming from any of 265-270 as any support. But the key also is I'm not seeing. and I don't think its a case of me refusing to see as I'm an ichixrukia or IchixNoone supporter.

I think the strongest scene of significance of any IchixRukia pairing, was Ichigo's reaction at the gate, at any point in this archive by far.

Spoiler:

*claps*
KT drew Ichigo's reaction as something to focus on when Ulq said Rukia is 'dead'. There was a scene where he runs towards Chad but his feelings there wasn't as attention grabbing compared to Rukia's one. Shows how much KT focuses on Ichi x Ruki relationship. Chapter 270 is a Ichi x Ruki scene
http://ileenka.livejournal.com/49057.html

[sorbet]

@ ashesatdusk"

Spoiler for gah spoiler..:

And the point we are tried to make is that Kubo DIDN'T allow Ichigo to go back for anyone EXCEPT Rukia. That's why chapter 270 was significant. If Ichigo has gone back to Chad, if Kubo has Ulqiorra informed Ichigo about Chad's 'dead' instead of Rukia's; none of us would be debating about this issue right now. And what even made ch 270 more significant was Kubo only showed Renji's reaction to rush back to Rukia the moment he heard she's 'dead'. It was paraelle to how Ichigo turned his back from Ulqiorra after he heard about Rukia. He didn't even bother showing Ishida's reaction because when it comes to Rukia, Renji and Ichigo will have strongest reactions. The only difference is Ichigo showed fear and disbelieve while Renji showed rage.

[alsy333]

Spoiler for chapter 270:

What if when Ichigo regains consciousness he becomes really conflicted about whether to go forward to rescue Orihime or to go backwards to Rukia. I think it would be really interesting to see his reasonings if he doesnt know what choices to make.

I really hope he goes forward to rescue Orihime. Although I really like the Ichiruki pairing I don't like that he has become so concerned with Rukia that he is doubting and forgetting his friends. Rukia is pretty capable and can handle herself and I'm pretty sure she won't die.

[Forever_young]

Spoiler:

And alot of people mentioned this before but there is a great difference between SS arc and the HM arc. *cough* SS ARC is waaay better compared to HM arc *cough*

In SS arc Ichigo was focused on rescueing Rukia and Rukia only. In every fight he made to pretty clear that he is fighting for Rukia. But in the HM arc, even though rescueing Orihime is the main goal he gets distracted by other stuff. And it's pretty clear he's doing it cause Orihime is his nakama

Why are we talking bout this chapter anyway. Chapter 270 is a Ichi x Ruki chapter full-stop. Plus 99% of the people here prefer Ichi x Ruki on this board anyway (awsome taste peoplez)

Originally Posted by alsy333

Spoiler for chapter 270:

What if when Ichigo regains consciousness he becomes really conflicted about whether to go forward to rescue Orihime or to go backwards to Rukia. I think it would be really interesting to see his reasonings if he doesnt know what choices to make.

I really hope he goes forward to rescue Orihime. Although I really like the Ichiruki pairing I don't like that he has become so concerned with Rukia that he is doubting and forgetting his friends. Rukia is pretty capable and can handle herself and I'm pretty sure she won't die.

To me if anyone's forgetting about their friends it's Orihime. She too focused on her Kurosaki-kun. Lol

[ashesatdusk]

Spoiler:

>And the point we are tried to make is that Kubo DIDN'T allow Ichigo to go back for anyone EXCEPT Rukia. That's why chapter 270 was significant. If Ichigo has gone back to Chad, if Kubo has Ulqiorra informed Ichigo about Chad's 'dead' instead of Rukia's; none of us would be debating about this issue right now. And what even made ch 270 more significant was Kubo only showed Renji's reaction to rush back to Rukia the moment he heard she's 'dead'. It was paraelle to how Ichigo turned his back from Ulqiorra after he heard about Rukia. He didn't even bother showing Ishida's reaction because when it comes to Rukia, Renji and Ichigo will have strongest reactions. The only difference is Ichigo showed fear and disbelieve while Renji showed rage.


I don't deny it is significant. I just don't think that the conclusions drawn from the chapter in the course of this thread can be drawn. Its a very subtle distinction. I'm not saying the conclusions drawn are wrong, I'm saying theres no really enough there to draw the conclusions been drawn.

[Starwing]

@ashesatdusk

Spoiler:

I don't deny it is significant. I just don't think that the conclusions drawn from the chapter in the course of this thread can be drawn. Its a very subtle distinction. I'm not saying the conclusions drawn are wrong, I'm saying theres no really enough there to draw the conclusions been drawn.

I don't necessarily disagree with you about 270. Of course people will read that chapter differently, or place more or less significance in it.

What I was trying to say is... that the 'Ichigo-might-have-gone-back-for-any-of-them-so-the-moment-is-not-significant' argument does not work in this case. It can't be used as a solid backing for your viewpoint because we have no indication otherwise. If it happens in the future, of course you can bring it up, but until then, the truth stands. Ichigo has only gone back for 2 people: Karin and Rukia, where Rukia's case was infinitely more significant.

I too, think that the scene at the gate is more telling. It's more obvious.

But 270 had an OOC Ichigo: any time a character acts out of character or unexpectedly, it is significant. Most people (even some IchiRuki fans) thought Ichigo was going to continue on like he did with Chad. I can only name... like... 3, that said he'd turn back for Rukia.

Therefore, Ichigo's choice was unexpected. Kubo tells us it's unexpected because it surprised a character in the scene: Ulquiorra. This has all the literary factors pointing to it --> that makes this moment a significant one.

Well... that's my 2 cents anyway. You're free to disagree. Just try to use arguments actually from the manga, I guess... I enjoy reading most of your posts, they're extremely intelligent. It's just that one argument that bugs me a lot, sorry, it's a pet peeve.

[Melinh]

Ichigo and Rukia 4ever!!

[adevilinthedark]

Originally Posted by sarrah

a common topic but very very important to bleach! lol...yeah sure
anywhooooo
i think rukia and ichigo are gona end up together!
just cus of how they were the first main female and male charcters introdueced, therefore ive gronw a fonder attatchment to them, though theyr both as dim as each other to boot so they suit each other! lol!

what do u think/>

Both. period

[Choo!]

Ichigo and Rukia. I would prefer them together much more than Orihime and Ichigo. Sure, Orihime has known Ichigo longer, but still, That doesnt mean she has to win him. Rukia and Ichigo BELONG together. Or atleast I think. Orihime X Ishida is the way to go about Orihime. XD I hate the pairing Rukia X Renji XP so thats why I support Ichigo X Rukia! --

[Uchih@]

ichi x ori............ the best of the best...........
by the way......... what would you people think if bleach ends without showing who ends up with who

[npal]

^ A typical shounen?

[Jaimie]

Originally Posted by Uchih@

by the way......... what would you people think if bleach ends without showing who ends up with who

It would mean that KT decided to be lazy and took the easy way out. He's clearly put an emphasis on romance in Bleach so it wouldn't make sense for him to disregard all that's been developed thus far for an "open" ending.


Also... go IchiRuki! \o/

[KAZE no TATSU]

Originally Posted by Uchih@

ichi x ori............ the best of the best...........
by the way......... what would you people think if bleach ends without showing who ends up with who

TRUE I AGREE WITH npal AND Jaimie.. THAT WOULD BE A TYPICAL SHONEN... BUT KUBO-SENSEI HAS CONFIRMED HE IS A SHOUJO FAN.... WHICH DECRESSES THE CHANCES OF A TYPICAL SHONEN ENDING PLUS AS FAR AS I CAN SEE THE ONLY PAIR WHO HAS A CHANCE TO HAVE A ROMANTIC RELATIONSHIP IS ICHIRUKI... BUT HENCE THE SHONEN DILEMA WERE THE PROTAGONIST/S ARE DENSE AS HELL*ichiruki* ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO EXPRESSING THEIR EMOTIONS OR EVEN RECONIZING THEM

...NOW CHAPTER 270 WHICH HAS EVERYONE'S UNDERWEAR IN A KNOTT WAS CLEARLY ICHIRUKI *duh* AS sorbet STATED .. I SAY THAT THIS ARC IS LIKE SS ARC BUT INSTEAD OF ICHI SHOWING ALL THAT DETERMINATION TO SAVE RUKIA.. IT’S RUKIA SHOWING ALL HER DETERMINATION TO SAVE INOUE... WE KNOW ICHIGO IS NO WHERE NEAR AS DETERMINED TO SAVE INOUE AS HE WAS WITH RUKIA.. TO ME IT LOOKS AS IF HE REALLY DOESN'T CARE THAT MUCH
ANYWAY I DON'T SUPPORT ICHIHIME BUT EVEN SO ICHIHIME POST ARE ENTERTAINING TO READ....

ICHIRUKI.....

[evenex]

Originally Posted by Uchih@

ichi x ori............ the best of the best...........
by the way......... what would you people think if bleach ends without showing who ends up with who

Omg, is it just me or have the Ichi x Ori fan got nuthin else convincing to write about supporting the Ichi x Ori couple so they just post something like this?

It's pretty clear most people prefer Ichi x Ruki, and they are more of a cannon pairing compared to Ichi x Ori. And I'm sure KT is not that dumb enough to not know that most people love Ichi x Ruki and only a small amount of people prefer Ichi x Ori

Ichi x Ruki is best! Full-stop

And I would actually prefer if Bleach ends as a Shounen manga rather than being turned into a typical shoujo manga

[Jaimie]

Originally Posted by evenex

And I would actually prefer if Bleach ends as a Shounen manga rather than being turned into a typical shoujo manga

Shounen manga =/= open ending.

If there's anyone who can pull off canonizing a highly romantic relationship without shaming the Shounen genre, it's Kubo. Just look what he's given us so far for IchiRuki:

1. Ichigo dies for Rukia -- his soul chain was cut by Urahara during his training before going to Soul Society. Then he literally went through heaven (Soul Society) and (training) hell for her.

2. The bridge scene. Ichigo lands in front of Rukia, the damsel in (not quite) distress trapped in the white tower, on one knee like a knight.

3. Ichigo swears on his soul to save Rukia. Wow.

4. The execution scene. The Ichigo that we see when he intercepts the phoenix is from Rukia's point of view. And from her perspective, he is every bit the stunning hero.

5. The goodbye scene in 181, and I know there are people who disagree with me here, but I found this chapter to be terribly romantic. The grassy fields, the gazes across the distance, the whole Winds of Separation thing going on there... yeah.

... And countless other scenes. All of which are terribly romantic in context yet subtle enough that it never reaches the cheesiness of typical shoujo mangas. Romance isn't exclusive to the shoujo genre. ^_^

[Uchih@]

Originally Posted by KAZE no TATSU

TRUE I AGREE WITH npal AND Jaimie.. THAT WOULD BE A TYPICAL SHONEN... BUT KUBO-SENSEI HAS CONFIRMED HE IS A SHOUJO FAN.... WHICH DECRESSES THE CHANCES OF A TYPICAL SHONEN ENDING PLUS AS FAR AS I CAN SEE THE ONLY PAIR WHO HAS A CHANCE TO HAVE A ROMANTIC RELATIONSHIP IS ICHIRUKI... BUT HENCE THE SHONEN DILEMA WERE THE PROTAGONIST/S ARE DENSE AS HELL*ichiruki* ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO EXPRESSING THEIR EMOTIONS OR EVEN RECONIZING THEM

...NOW CHAPTER 270 WHICH HAS EVERYONE'S UNDERWEAR IN A KNOTT WAS CLEARLY ICHIRUKI *duh* AS sorbet STATED .. I SAY THAT THIS ARC IS LIKE SS ARC BUT INSTEAD OF ICHI SHOWING ALL THAT DETERMINATION TO SAVE RUKIA.. IT’S RUKIA SHOWING ALL HER DETERMINATION TO SAVE INOUE... WE KNOW ICHIGO IS NO WHERE NEAR AS DETERMINED TO SAVE INOUE AS HE WAS WITH RUKIA.. TO ME IT LOOKS AS IF HE REALLY DOESN'T CARE THAT MUCH
ANYWAY I DON'T SUPPORT ICHIHIME BUT EVEN SO ICHIHIME POST ARE ENTERTAINING TO READ....

ICHIRUKI.....

MATE CAN U EXPLAIN ONE THING TO ME........... when the hell we see romantic moments between ichi and rukia.............. the only moments shown are orihime ichigo........... but orihime is the only one in romantic style......... i am not saying that ichigo loves orihime or anything like that i am just confused on the point that ichiruki had romantic times...........
want prove for inoue romantic moments............ well the biggest one that even a blind man could see is when Inoue is saying good bye to Ichi dude.............. chapter 237 page 15
now ur turn to show ur prove

[Marsala]

Originally Posted by Uchih@

u wanna a fight u gonna get it..........i was just saying that........... i don't give a damn what other people prefer to....... i just think of myself n i don't really wanna start a f****** long conversation just talking about something like this...........
i can't care much less of IchiX ruki fan what so ever.........
and i never saw something like explaining y u like a pair in the thread so shut the f*** up mate.............
and as far as ichi . ruki fan thingy is concerned... i have read ur damn posts on it and it is nothing that important infact u just make up the story urself........... u want to raise a point then provide the evidence.......
next time be sure to have evidence............ and as far as KT is concerned... he has always done what people least expected so stop saying that he is going to go with the ichi X ruki pairing just because u guys support that pairing...............
AS far as the anime goes......... sure there a million proves that orihime loves ichigo but none to show that ichigo loves her.........
on the other hand there is no evidence that Rukia loves Ichigo.......... infact she has the same kind of relation ship with Renji so if u say all that crap based on the time they spend together then bring renji in concedaration too mate............. and there is no prove to show that Ichigo loves either Orihime or Rukia so stop babbling non sense...........
next time.... before posting a reply think for once.......... LOSER!!!!!!!

There is evidence that Rukia loves Ichigo:

- Ichigo was the last person she thought of before her execution ended, and he got by far the biggest panel

- Rukia's body language and behavior during the Grand Fisher fight was almost identical to Orihime's during the Byakuya fight. Both clutched their own arms to hold themselves back, both prayed for Ichigo's safety, and both thanked him for surviving after the battle was over. The only notable difference was that Rukia successfully caught Ichigo and put his head in her lap while Orihime conked heads with him and sent him to the ground. Kubo Tite's repetition of Rukia's behavior and body language with Orihime is strong evidence that Rukia and Orihime's feelings for Ichigo are the same.

Spoiler:

- In chapter 269, Ichigo got his own larger panel with fresh art in Rukia's thoughts while Chad was grouped with Ishida (nakama) and Renji was grouped with Byakuya (hmm... could Rukia think of them as brothers?)

There is also evidence that Ichigo loves Rukia:

- Ichigo's loving gaze at Rukia in chapter 213 that practically broke Orihime's heart. There's more, of course, but I consider that to be definitive.

[Jaimie]

Wow Uchiha, calm down.

237 is indeed a romantic chapter for Orihime... but I don't see how it supports IchiOri? Just because she confessed her feelings doesn't mean that he will automatically reciprocate those feelings, and as we all know, it takes two people for a relationship. (Not to mention, Ichigo didn't even hear the confession. 237 was development for Orihime, yes, but it's kind of pointless for the IchiOri pairing if one side doesn't even know about it.)

Originally Posted by Marsala

Rukia's body language and behavior during the Grand Fisher fight was almost identical to Orihime's during the Byakuya fight. Both clutched their own arms to hold themselves back, both prayed for Ichigo's safety, and both thanked him for surviving after the battle was over. The only notable difference was that Rukia successfully caught Ichigo and put his head in her lap while Orihime conked heads with him and sent him to the ground. Kubo Tite's repetition of Rukia's behavior and body language with Orihime is strong evidence that Rukia and Orihime's feelings for Ichigo are the same.

Great catch, I never noticed that! So not only does Kubo parallel Ichigo and Renji when it concerns Rukia (and we all know how Renji feels about her...), he also parallels Rukia and Orihime when it comes to Ichigo. Brilliant. ^_^

Spoiler:

I also find it interesting how strikingly similar the Renji & Ishida panel in 275 is to the "Swear to my soul!" parallel between Ichigo and Renji. Heh, is Kubo hinting at something here?

[Uchih@]

Originally Posted by Marsala

There is evidence that Rukia loves Ichigo:

- Ichigo was the last person she thought of before her execution ended, and he got by far the biggest panel

- Rukia's body language and behavior during the Grand Fisher fight was almost identical to Orihime's during the Byakuya fight. Both clutched their own arms to hold themselves back, both prayed for Ichigo's safety, and both thanked him for surviving after the battle was over. The only notable difference was that Rukia successfully caught Ichigo and put his head in her lap while Orihime conked heads with him and sent him to the ground. Kubo Tite's repetition of Rukia's behavior and body language with Orihime is strong evidence that Rukia and Orihime's feelings for Ichigo are the same.

Spoiler:

- In chapter 269, Ichigo got his own larger panel with fresh art in Rukia's thoughts while Chad was grouped with Ishida (nakama) and Renji was grouped with Byakuya (hmm... could Rukia think of them as brothers?)

There is also evidence that Ichigo loves Rukia:

- Ichigo's loving gaze at Rukia in chapter 213 that practically broke Orihime's heart. There's more, of course, but I consider that to be definitive.

Mate the behave..... what so ever of rukia u were talking about was beacause that was the same situation as Kaien dude's......... similarities.... if that word helps u a bit.......... and getting hold of Ichigo or knocking his head doesn't matter
as far as the spoiler one goes ichigo was upset because he thought he couldn't save anyone and orihime got sad because she knew that Ichigo was being bothered by his defeat against arrancar.......... so i don't see love in that.............
and one more thing some people talk that orihime doesn't know anything about ichigo and can't even help him then i guess u guys need to see the episode 18 and 19 where orihime comforts ichigo.......... got that............
any other evidence u wanna show

[Uchih@]

Originally Posted by Jaimie

Wow Uchiha, calm down.

237 is indeed a romantic chapter for Orihime... but I don't see how it supports IchiOri? Just because she confessed her feelings doesn't mean that he will automatically reciprocate those feelings, and as we all know, it takes two people for a relationship. (Not to mention, Ichigo didn't even hear the confession. 237 was development for Orihime, yes, but it's kind of pointless for the IchiOri pairing if one side doesn't even know about it.)


Great catch, I never noticed that! So not only does Kubo parallel Ichigo and Renji when it concerns Rukia (and we all know how Renji feels about her...), he also parallels Rukia and Orihime when it comes to Ichigo. Brilliant. ^_^

Spoiler:

I also find it interesting how strikingly similar the Renji & Ishida panel in 275 is to the "Swear to my soul!" parallel between Ichigo and Renji. Heh, is Kubo hinting at something here?

calming down is on one side mate leave that for a while............
let me think of the time when i said that chapter 237 supports ichigo orihime pairing.. now did i said something like that.......... i was just showing u the romantic moments so far in bleach