Mari Okada discussion

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

Archon, I loved AnoHana (my #2 series of 2011) but by most accounts it would have been a gigantic clusterf*** if Okada had been allowed by Nagai to write the show she wanted (no ghost story, tons of ecchi, etc.). Nagai is one of the few directors who stood up to her (which pissed her off mightily, to the point where she bad-mouthed the final product) and that "spurred from within" you credit to Hourou Musuko was mostly "spurred from without" by Nagai. And thank goodness, too.

It's true, but that's not exactly what happened is it? I guess no work can be credited to solely one person and Nagai should be thanked for keeping things under wraps. Like I said,

She needs heavy help from good directing and probably editors to keep her long ramblings in tow. Much like myself.

Just because she had insane ideas for it doesn't devalue her work in it. I mean sometimes first drafts are pretty awful. ;p

It also explains the not so good work she's done.

[0utf0xZer0]

It's hard to tell which has more drama, Okada's shows or posts about her.

I mean, sure, I think AKB and BRS are as cringeworthy as the next pretentious moe scholar. But I have to question how much of that is really her fault. Look at the concepts she got to work with. Compare with AnoHana, Wandering Son, and Hanasaku Iroha just last year.

In light of the "specifications" for each show, I'd say Okada's work ranged from good to brilliant.

TL;DR:
Call me when her Okada-isms ruin something that should have been good, because it has yet to happen.

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

Also as a reiteration of my prior post, I really do need someone to explain to me how the industry (if it were just J.C Staff and Studio Deen I'd be inclined to agree more) owes this particular person anything other than her paycheck and a listing in the credits of each work she does to acknowledge her contribution. Did I miss something, is Mari Okada saving anime ala Yamakan?

Which of her shows have you seen?

In my experience, Okada's fans tend to rever her work on shows like True Tears, Toradora, Wandering Son, Ano Hana, and Hanasaku Iroha. On the other hand, stuff like Fractale, AKB, Black Rock Shooter and Canaan seldom receives the same praise. Aquarion Evol might be an exception because a lot of Okada fans seem to consider it a guilty pleasure, but even that's not respected the same way the former works are.

[Westlo]

Praise the heavens she has her own thread, was sick of seeing her mentioned in any P.A Works anime thread let alone others.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

The only other regular to semi-regular anime original writer I can think of that gets praised as much as Okada does is Gen Urobuchi (Gen seems to be more widely praised than Okada, but he also doesn't seem to have her range).

Semi-regular? lol? The only other anime apart from Madoka he had actually written for was Blassreiter which everyone thought sucked back in 2008. Oh and he did a few episodes of screenplay for Phantom which he wrote the VN for, so it's not an original production.

TJR has a list of writers that have been prolific, they just don't seem to be attention whores like Okada as well as attracting people to talk about them all the time through their trolling ways.

[Pocari_Sweat]

Originally Posted by Westlo

Praise the heavens she has her own thread, was sick of seeing her mentioned in any P.A Works anime thread let alone others.

TJR has a list of writers that have been prolific, they just don't seem to be attention whores like Okada as well as attracting people to talk about them all the time through their trolling ways.

I apologise since I was one of those people . But hey, we're not all trolls (at least all the time)

[Dr. Casey]

Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0

In my experience, Okada's fans tend to rever her work on shows like True Tears, Toradora, Wandering Son, Ano Hana, and Hanasaku Iroha.

Never gotten the love for True Tears or Wandering Son, I thought True Tears was a pretty dull series without much going for it besides the wonderful opening theme and I think I've had more fun doing math homework than watching Wandering Son

Hanasaku's pretty cool though, and Toradora and AnoHana do indeed rule

[Pocari_Sweat]

Originally Posted by Dr. Casey

Never gotten the love for True Tears or Wandering Son, I thought True Tears was a pretty dull series without much going for it besides the wonderful opening theme and I think I've had more fun doing math homework than watching Wandering Son

Hanasaku's pretty cool though, and Toradora and AnoHana do indeed rule

*must stay calm, must stay calm, must stay calm, EXPLODES*



Well as mentioned in my massive tldr wall and also very well in Archon's post, True Tears and Wandering are more works of art, whilst Toradora and AnoHana are more *ahem* "commercialized" works that work on having a good laugh or emotion . No idea how to describe Iroha. Maybe I'll just call it Sparkling - the anime!

But math homework > Wandering Son? That's harsh man!

It's ok, for that I will think of you as a lesser kouhai who has yet to appreciate the art of genuineness and subtlety.

EDIT: Just realized you're the same age as me. Epic fail by me.
EDIT2: I have now SUBSCRIBED to this thread.

[Dr. Casey]

Nah, I can appreciate things that are subtle perfectly fine, just not things that are boring. I hope I haven't let you down as your senpai ;_;

Though we do agree on Hanasaku Iroha being a pretty baffling series, at least. I'm still not completely sure what to make of it. Come to think, the way it treats such mundane issues as srs business (Omelette rice, etc) kind of reminds me of Hyouka's Chitanda and the way she treats anything and everything as though it's the mystery of the century. "Oreki, why do people keep checking out this book? I'm curious! Oreki, why did my math teacher make a minor mistake? I must know!" Maybe Hyouka's writing is kind of Okada-ish in that sense.

[Pocari_Sweat]

God forbid Okada ever writing an anime original script for Kyoani. Then the world will be doomed with all its moe and crossdressing antics.

Plus PA works will be very very angry at her if she did since they are kinda rivals :3. And of course, Okada will be in no position to tell staff from the mighty Kyoani to F-off and do what she likes. Actually... on second thought... I would like to see that. Okada being all arragont and and all and then the Kyoani Staff firing her ass mid-series. Would provide lulsy drama.

[Archon_Wing]

Well, like I said. I myself wasn't very attached to True Tears. Wandering Son was arguably worse in that regard because I wasn't really liking any of the characters. But I appreciate their intent. Though I guess True Tears never bored me. It was too nicely packaged to do such a thing. But if you liked that, then it's more of the directing and audiovisual experience, not Okada's writing. The way I see it, it really provided the perfect stage for the play, except Dr. Casey didn't give a shit about the play itself.

But it's ok! Hiromi's still pretty hawt.

[Pocari_Sweat]

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

But it's ok! Hiromi's still pretty hawt.

To this very day, I still lol at those random splits and glasses. Not complaining of course. It just enhanced her hotness .

But it was very obvious that the "smelly wench" writer wanted to perv it up, granted it is a lot more subtle than the ero she tends to add recently.

[ahelo]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

I fail to see how the whole industry depends on just one person. If the industries situation were that dire then frankly this shouldn't be the conversation we are having. Also what does the gender of people in it have to do with anything?

I just meant it as people seem to have a need of her all the time (not that they do) even on things that aren't her forte and that sort of aura that she managed to create is commendable. Also I just meant that it's nice to have a girl in the "anime industry" stand out for a change (is it that bad to note it?).

Anyway whatever, Okada's not exactly in her game mode this year. I only like EVOL because of how straight face it is with a technically terrible script. It's like you can't help but love it sometimes. Same with AKB0048. BRS was just terrible while I appreciate Lupin more on its artistic merits rather than the writing and dialogue.

[totoum]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

I guess I should have said "allegedly" badmouthed - because as I remember it was reported, rather than recorded. There may be an interview somewhere that I've forgotten - but it's early morning here and it's been a long day...

Here's the original japanese arcticle that lead to the ANN article that says her "emotions were shaken" ,which to me is normal when you're told your work needs a major rewrite,but it's not like she quit the project,she stayed on board,rewrote the script and went on several promotional interviews alongside Nagai so I don't buy into her not liking the show.

Though if anyone feels like translating I'd appreciate it because I don't always trust ANN.

[Pocari_Sweat]

What I got from that article using my limited google translate (lol), was that Okada was inspired by I Can Hear the Sea and Only Yesterday. Both of them are Ghibli josei dramas. Never seen I Can Hear the Sea, but I did see Only Yesterday, which was excellent. So this is where she got her inspiration from for her drama scripts? No wonder why she was great (compared to the rest) in the past.

But look at her now... sigh.

Don't trust me on this, google translate is unreliable lol. It came out all grammatically wrong, but i did see those two films mentioned. Or maybe they were comparing Ano Hana to them. If they were LOL. Just no, Anohana is in no way comparable to those two (Well at least Only Yesterday since I saw that one), doesn't have the quality .

Maybe a kind person can translate?

[Haak]

Well here are my experiences of Okada's work:

Ano Hana – Fantastic drama up until the ending. But I think a lot of this was the Nagai factor too. (Overall: 9/10)

AKB0048 - It's actually decent when there's no weird shit. But there's plenty of weird shit overall. (So far: 6/10)

Aquarion Evol - Same as above. And the plot is just God awful really. (So far: 6/10)

Canaan - I really liked this one. It was dark and had great characters and dialogue. The plot wasn't all that great though. I thought it was good but not great. (Overall: 7/10)

Black Rock Shooter – Great dialogue. Terrible plot AND characters... (Overall: 5/10)

Fate/Stay Night - >_____<’

Fractale – I actually liked this one. The dialogue was good and the characters were good too. It wasn’t great but it was enjoyable and I think the bad aspects are due to other factors *cough*Yamakan*cough* (Overall: 7/10)

Gosick – Great dialogue and good characters but I’m guessing this was more of a straightforward adaption than something Okada could actually worked with. The bad aspects were due to its questionable plot which I doubt Okada had much control over (Overall: 7/10)

Hanasaku Iroha – It’s definitely flawed but overall I enjoyed it immensely. My final opinion on how much Okada contributed to it will depend on how good Tari Tari is. (Overall: 8/10)

Hourou Musuko – Great series but yeah it seems like it was just a straightforward adaption. (Overall: 9/10)

Toradora! – I loved this show to bits. I think it’s the first Romcom I watched and I still think it’s among the best. Great character interactions and great dialogue. But I also think that was mainly due to the Nagai factor and the plot was already established by the author so Okada couldn’t ruin it. (Overall: 9/10)

True Tears – To be brutally honest, I didn’t think this was all that great. It certainly had excellent dialogue but like Archon Wing I felt kinda emotionally detached to what was going on and after the motorcycle crash, it just gets stupid. (Overall: 7/10)

So basically she does excellent dialogue and characters but she really needs to work on her ability to write plot because it’s just God damn awful. And she ought to stay with Drama/SoL because slapstick comedy will almost always bring down an action/adventure type. In fact she should just stay away from comedy since it almost always feels inappropriate when she does it.

I can’t help but feel like we’re being a bit elitist here as well. Maybe Mari Okada genuinely enjoys stupid weird stories like AKB0048, Aquarion Evol and Black Rock Shooter just as much stories like Ano Hana and True Tears? If so who are we to judge? Maybe we should just accept that she’s a lost cause?

As for her blatant hatred for men, yes it’s annoying as hell but if you think about it you have to wonder if any female writer can survive in the Anime Industry (Home to all sorts of weird fetishes) without developing a rather cynical view on men.

I’ll also quote this from another thread.

Originally Posted by Haak

Necessary is a strong word actually. Preferable was probably a better word.

But yes if Tari Tari does turn out to be as good as HanaIro then I will be very troubled indeed. That's why I kept saying "mixed feelings are mixed".

As for Okada writing too much, I can't really tell if the quantity is actually making her write crap or if we just feel she's writing too much simply because she's currently writing a lot of crap and we've had enough. Probably both actually. But even when she writes crap, it's usually not too crap and I'm willing to tolerate it if she produces great stuff, so I don't actually mind seeing her write lots (unless the quantity really is the cause)

[EDIT]

Those scores are for the anime btw, not for Okada...

[totoum]

Originally Posted by Haak

Fate/Stay Night - >_____<’

Just want to clear this up,she scripted the dialogue in some episodes but she wasn't the series composer, it was Takuya Sato

Originally Posted by haak

I can’t help but feel like we’re being a bit elitist here as well. Maybe Mari Okada genuinely enjoys stupid weird stories like AKB0048, Aquarion Evol and Black Rock Shooter just as much stories like Ano Hana and True Tears? If so who are we to judge? Maybe we should just accept that she’s a lost cause?

There might be a gap between what Okada likes and what she writes , would love to have this translated but it seems she's a big fan of UN-GO.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

Also as a reiteration of my prior post, I really do need someone to explain to me how the industry (if it were just J.C Staff and Studio Deen I'd be inclined to agree more) owes this particular person anything other than her paycheck and a listing in the credits of each work she does to acknowledge her contribution. Did I miss something, is Mari Okada saving anime ala Yamakan?

Over the last couple of years there's been a notable increase in anime original works.

I personally think this is a good thing, in and of itself.

More anime original works means:

1) The quality of anime isn't limited by the quality of current/recent manga, LNs, and VNs (i.e. if manga, LNs, and VNs go through a bit of a weak patch for one or more of them, anime doesn't necessarily have to get "dragged down" with them).

2) Even for high-quality manga, LNs, and VNs, the pacing and format differences between these three and anime can cause anime adaptations of them to feel a bit off. Anime originals are first and foremost anime, and so can be ideally paced for the anime format without needing to slash and burn vast quantities of content.

3) The anime industry is less likely to "burn through" all of the existing good manga, LNs, and VNs due to lack of alternatives. More anime originals means that the anime industry can "take its time" a bit more when it comes to adapting manga, LNs, and VNs.


Long story short, more anime originals is good for the anime industry, imo.

And I'm not sure if we'd have as many anime originals over the past two years if not for Mari Okada. TJR raised the names of some other prominent anime writers, but after I looked a little bit into them, I don't see either of them as being anywhere near as active with anime originals, recently, as Okada has been.

AnoHana, Hanasaku Iroha, Aquarion EVOL, and Black Rock Shooter (the TV series) are all recent anime originals, and Okada wrote all of them (there may well be other recent Okada-wrote anime originals that I'm not aware of). Reception has been mixed for Aquarion EVOL and BRS, but AnoHana was widely praised, and even some people who were often critical of HSI (like myself, Demi Soda, and Archon_Wing) ended up more or less liking it overall.

Okada isn't "saving" anime, but her prolific works does make anime that little bit less reliant on manga, LNs, and VNs, and I think that's good for the anime industry. And Okada's works do tend to be either "Dumb, but fun" or "Excellent", imo. She's not a great writer, imo, but she does tend to be an entertaining writer (albeit sometimes for questionable reasons).


Now, I do think that much of what makes Okada an entertaining writer will, over time, have diminishing returns (in how much it entertains anime-watchers). You can only "troll" your readers/viewers so many times before your schtick gets old. Okada is eventually going to need to write something that's just plain "legit good" again, without needing trolls to amuse (some) of the audience. Eventually, she's going to need another True Tears or AnoHana. Here is where her current career direction is a bit worrisome to me, and a lot of other people following her career. I get the temptation to do nothing but "Dumb, but fun" if you, as a writer, can get away with it. But when a writer does that when s/he's capable of much more, that's a bit sad, imo.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by DemiSoda

God forbid Okada ever writing an anime original script for Kyoani. Then the world will be doomed with all its moe and crossdressing antics.

Plus PA works will be very very angry at her if she did since they are kinda rivals :3. And of course, Okada will be in no position to tell staff from the mighty Kyoani to F-off and do what she likes. Actually... on second thought... I would like to see that. Okada being all arragont and and all and then the Kyoani Staff firing her ass mid-series. Would provide lulsy drama.

For that to happen I think Kyoani would actually have to go outside it's usual circle though. The only outsider I really know of that has done any extended work for them is Shoji Gatoh.

I think this would be the case for any major self-respecting studio production comittee with clout though.

Originally Posted by ahelo

I just meant it as people seem to have a need of her all the time (not that they do) even on things that aren't her forte and that sort of aura that she managed to create is commendable. Also I just meant that it's nice to have a girl in the "anime industry" stand out for a change (is it that bad to note it?).

Well again looking at who she's worked for it's really only been a handful of groups including Deen, J.C Staff, Satelight (most recently) and P.A Works so I'd say it's certain concerns that wish to work with her and not that the industry needs her. As for girls standing out in the industry...frankly if I'm to be honest I think that the female movers and shakers in the industry tend to get a little too much attention these days compared to their male peers simply for the fact that they are female, especially when it comes to the sound department of music and voice acting, but that's a story for another time and another topic.

[ahelo]

Originally Posted by DemiSoda

God forbid Okada ever writing an anime original script for Kyoani. Then the world will be doomed with all its moe and crossdressing antics.

Plus PA works will be very very angry at her if she did since they are kinda rivals :3. And of course, Okada will be in no position to tell staff from the mighty Kyoani to F-off and do what she likes. Actually... on second thought... I would like to see that. Okada being all arragont and and all and then the Kyoani Staff firing her ass mid-series. Would provide lulsy drama.

Didn't that happen with Yamakan already?

[Pocari_Sweat]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

Well again looking at who she's worked for it's really only been a handful of groups including Deen, J.C Staff, Satelight (most recently) and P.A Works ...

And A-1 Pictures (Anohana, Black Butler), Ordet (Fractal, Black Rock Shooter), Hal Film Maker (Sketchbook: Full Colors), Bones (Gosick), TMS (Lupin III, Hamtaro), AIC (Hourou Musuko, Sasami Mahou Shojo Club), Gonzo (Red Garden) ... I'm sure I'm missing some

A lot more than a handful . Though it's very common for directors and writers to be freelancing between studios. Unless you're named Shinbo, in which case you stick with Shaft .


Anyways guys, I was just kidding regarding Okada writing for Kyoani and then getting fired. Don't take it seriously

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by DemiSoda

Anyways guys, I was just kidding regarding Okada writing for Kyoani and then getting fired. Don't take it seriously

I want to see this scenario unfold now though.