Little Busters ~Refrain~ - Episode 10 Discussion / Poll

[Leo_Otaku]

I'm not actually sure how I feel about the presentation of this episode. I can see some liked the way it was done, while others hated it. I did not however hate it, but something felt off about how long it went with the flashbacks. Though in a way I like how JC Staff didn't do what Kyoani did with Clannad. I just hope some added parts later on will be expanded on like they did here. However, I really loved the scenes with Kyousuke struggling. They did an excellent job with that.

Originally Posted by Dark Faith

I rarely pay attention to episode titles, so I was actually expecting the "End of the World" to be in this episode... and not a 20+ minute Kyousuke monologue.

I don't know what you were expecting by that title or what you mean either. You can clearly see he doesn't have to keep on restarting the world and it is at the end of the "The" world he has created.

[The Butcher]

My favorite episode of Refrain yet.

Jesus, this show just steals my week every time.

[Zankoku12]

Apperantly some people failed to understand anime isn't the same with VN.Long monologue is okay with VN but not with anime,we don't need 20 minutes of Kyosuke spelling out for us 80% stuffs we already figured out and they should save the screen time for something more important instead.
Personally,I don't mind them dragging it like this because the show has some serious pacing issue from the start anyway.I just hope whoever directing this stop putting more of their failed changes to the original script

Plz

[Meltyred]

Originally Posted by ChampDream

this episode reveal the secret of the world and that a accident happen and the only one to survive seem to be Riki and Rin.
so how did Kyousuke get to make a fake world? it feel he was using what left of his willpower to make the world or is another thing?

Same way in Clannad, magic dragonballs of magic that can't be seen.
Cause magic.
It's what key does, ignore it.

As a VN player, I actually liked this episode more then the VN version.

[MCAL]

@Zankoku12

Well I really don't see many anime only viewers complaining about the episode being an extended flashback, so they don't seem to be too bothered by it. In fact, some even admitted normally this type of episode wouldn't have normally worked with them.

[Benigmatica]

I like the revelation that Kyousuke made a world to correct his mistakes, sort of a purgatory just like Angel Beats!

On the other hand, I feel that I've seen all of the events that happened that lead up to this episode. The only thing that this episode didn't explain is how they died. Sure, it was a car accident, but it's too vague.

[Divini]

Question: It's obvious that Masato and Kengo knew from the start, but what about the rest of the girls? They definitely knew by the end, but were they in the know from the start? Did they realize the secret on their own? Did Kyosuke tell them after their arcs ended?

Only thing that was really stated was that Kud remembered(?) at the end of her arc.

[Mcfart]

Originally Posted by Zankoku12

How exactly did they expect anime-only viewers to understand Komari's bad end scene...and why just Komari's,if they want to make their point they should animated other bad ends as well rather than just "Nooooooo,her brother is dead like my parents ;____;" out of nowhere...

Kyoskuke was saying that he repeated until Riki stopped being a kid. That was an example of Riki forcing Kyoskuke to reset :P

Originally Posted by Zankoku12

Apperantly some people failed to understand anime isn't the same with VN.Long monologue is okay with VN but not with anime,we don't need 20 minutes of Kyosuke spelling out for us 80% stuffs we already figured out and they should save the screen time for something more important instead.
Personally,I don't mind them dragging it like this because the show has some serious pacing issue from the start anyway.I just hope whoever directing this stop putting more of their failed changes to the original script

Plz

I think they intentionally made this a recap episode as well. Therefore everyone is kinda knows whatever they need to know for the next episodes.

[AC-Phoenix]

Well I kinda expected Kyousuke to die, that he hinted strong enough - but all of them that was a bit surprising.

So its basically that the bus that killed so many students was not at another school but on Riki's school and the ones having died were everyone in their class but Riki and Rin.
As everyone who didn't already know remembered once their regrets vanished everyone but Riki and rin remembered.
Riki's narcolepsie attacks were the time shifting. - Which is why no one wondered why people vanished - they just decided to do so.
So the foundation of Kyousukes world was basically that the bus went on from another school rather than his own.

Did I get that up right?

The only thing I'm atm unsure about is whether we were shown the real world at any point in time before todays episode, and thus the reason for them sitting in that bus together in the first place.
So was it really a class trip or a trip with their baseball team that got founded + all members gathered by Kyousuke in the prime world?

[Narzia]

Well, there was that sequence with Kyousuke at the end of the previous episode, so there.
Also, sometimes when Riki collapses there's an image of what looks like a cloudy sky, maybe that's the real world, though from what we've seen now it's pretty sunny right now in reality, and I can't imagine they have been lying there for a long time.

And I think it's pretty safe to say it is the class trip. The way the class trip keeps popping up in the show, yet every time people avoid talking about it with pinpoint precision (when you have been watching/reading anime/manga for a while, you know a class trip is usually a huge deal) not to mention in its first appearance in episode 22, it triggered this rather creepy "phone doesn't connect / vision" thing.
Though this makes me wonder, did they know the girls before entering the dreamworld?

I just noticed something, The End of the World was also an episode title in Clannad.
Oh god... well, it's Key, a happy ending wouldn't surprise me at all, but still.. oh god.

[Magicflier]

Originally Posted by ~Yami~

this episode is heartbreaking
I think flashback-monologue is the best way to explain things that happened
as anime-only watcher, I just can't blink my eyes... seeing Kyousuke with blood, several bad end (so that's narcolepsy really a reset in this world)

when members leaves, I feel very sad... they are like... "okay.. we're not belong in this world actually..."
Komari gained lots of respect as well
the question is why Kurugaya should depart sooner? why she can't wait more longer?
actually I really want to see the scene when Kyousuke explained things about this world to other members

No I don't think Riki's narcolepsy is a reset. Riki said he had his narcolepsy way back even when he was still in childhood, but the reset doesn't go that far back. Unless your saying Kyousuke fabricated everyone's childhood memories too which I HIGHLY doubt it. xDDD

I don’t remember Kyousuke saying he explained everything to them… I'm sure he simply said he "got them involved" into his plan. I only remember him saying that only the original members knew everything from the start + hinted Komari also knew as well. Only then is it after a few resets to solve the girl’s regrets that the other girls noticed (maybe ONLY noticed, not actually remembered everything). I know that Kyousuke said that Kud was the first to notice after a few resets, but I don’t know about Haruka nor Mio. Don’t think Kyousuke said anything about Kurugaya as well… So Kurugaya probably noticed herself from when she tried to make her ‘wish’ for her love for Riki to come true. Her wish then looped the world back in time and fluxuated the world. So she probably tried to stop the loop one last time but failed and disappeared from it; leaving Riki determined to protect Rin.

I might have to rewatch the episode to see if I missed any other important dialogue.

[Zankoku12]

Originally Posted by MCAL

@Zankoku12

Well I really don't see many anime only viewers complaining about the episode being an extended flashback, so they don't seem to be too bothered by it. In fact, some even admitted normally this type of episode wouldn't have normally worked with them.

I don't see any major issues for anime-only viewer to be bothered about that at all(everyone is too busy admiring Kyousuke's greatness anyway),unsatisfied VN players on the other hand might see it differently.
I'm not really arguing on whether the flashback type is better for this or not but whichever is the case,they shouldn't have dragged it like they did.

I'm just sad they wasted an opportunity to make this a better episode,oh well I will just think of this as their attempt in trying to show more Kyousuke's love.

Originally Posted by Mcfart

Kyoskuke was saying that he repeated until Riki stopped being a kid. That was an example of Riki forcing Kyoskuke to reset :P

Yes of course,they need to make an example of that because it wasn't clear enough already by watching the previous episodes.Silly me!

[Narzia]

Originally Posted by Magicflier

No I don't think Riki's narcolepsy is a reset.

Of course, it was an actual narcolepsy back in the real world. Here, however, his collapses seem to happen whenever Kyousuke resets the world.
You can even see that in episode 9 and 25 of the first season that after he collapses and wakes up in his room, the date on the clock is conveniently shadowed out. You do have to wonder how he never noticed that until Refrain.

[bigdeal000]

Originally Posted by Divini

Question: It's obvious that Masato and Kengo knew from the start, but what about the rest of the girls? They definitely knew by the end, but were they in the know from the start? Did they realize the secret on their own? Did Kyosuke tell them after their arcs ended?

Only thing that was really stated was that Kud remembered(?) at the end of her arc.

Kyosuke said that Kud remembered after some resets. So, I think it's safe to say they all had no idea at first, but came to realize things after a while. Most likely after their regrets were healed (except for Kud), because, if it was before, I'm sure they wouldn't accept to be used like this -remember that Komari was shown (in this episode) to be in the know only after Riki finally succeeded. Since Riki helped them, they would want to reward him. Kurugaya was also different, as she was kinda in Kengo's position: why must this world end, I want to be with you guys more. So she tried to fight against it, but to no avail.
That's my take on things anyway. The VN wasn't very clear about this stuff, and I'm sure the anime won't care either.

Edit: I forgot about Komari's drawings...but I'm still sure she did not know the truth. I mean, who would go along with all that brother suffering if they knew it's coming? And multiple times too. I know Komari's trying to make everyone happy, but really... Maybe the drawing was just her intuition warning her about something.

[Randrak42]

Spoiler for Little VN info the anime missed:

On a side-note of badassness...it's not explained in the anime but in the VN Kyousuke's little trips between worlds actually reset his position...meaning that no matter how far he dragged himself, he'd always return to where he started after switching between worlds (however, time did not reset). Also, it wasn't just when Riki went to visit, but instead any time Kyousuke lost consciousnesses while dragging himself around he went back to the other world and had to start all over again. Just imagine how hard the search for the gasoline leak must have been.

It's not really that important for the plot and it doesn't change anything by not saying it but I feel that it made Kyousuke's effort even impressive and heartwrenching.

[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Narzia

Well, there was that sequence with Kyousuke at the end of the previous episode, so there.
Also, sometimes when Riki collapses there's an image of what looks like a cloudy sky, maybe that's the real world, though from what we've seen now it's pretty sunny right now in reality, and I can't imagine they have been lying there for a long time.

And I think it's pretty safe to say it is the class trip. The way the class trip keeps popping up in the show, yet every time people avoid talking about it with pinpoint precision (when you have been watching/reading anime/manga for a while, you know a class trip is usually a huge deal) not to mention in its first appearance in episode 22, it triggered this rather creepy "phone doesn't connect / vision" thing.
Though this makes me wonder, did they know the girls before entering the dreamworld?

I just noticed something, The End of the World was also an episode title in Clannad.
Oh god... well, it's Key, a happy ending wouldn't surprise me at all, but still.. oh god.

Basically what I was getting at.
kyousuke must have known them as he knew they had regrets.
Most of them seem to have been complete strangers to the rest of the cast though.

[Dark Faith]

Originally Posted by Leo_Otaku

I'm not actually sure how I feel about the presentation of this episode. I can see some liked the way it was done, while others hated it. I did not however hate it, but something felt off about how long it went with the flashbacks. Though in a way I like how JC Staff didn't do what Kyoani did with Clannad. I just hope some added parts later on will be expanded on like they did here. However, I really loved the scenes with Kyousuke struggling. They did an excellent job with that.
I don't know what you were expecting by that title or what you mean either. You can clearly see he doesn't have to keep on restarting the world and it is at the end of the "The" world he has created.

...I meant that I assumed that the contents of episodes 10 and 11 would've been packed into one because I didn't think that Kyousuke's "arc" would take a whole 20 minutes.

Had I read the episode titles beforehand, I would've known that wouldn't be the case.

[AC-Phoenix]

Actually wait I thought about this a bit.
Was this really a class trip?!

I mean Kyousuke is not in their class, in fact he should be a grade above them as he was already looking for work/a college place
So why the heck was he in the bus if it was a class trip?

[Dark Faith]

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix

Actually wait I thought about this a bit.
Was this really a class trip?!

I mean Kyousuke is not in their class, in fact he should be a grade above them as he was already looking for work/a college place
So why the heck was he in the bus if it was a class trip?

It's not really a (big) spoiler, but it should be explained in the next episode so just hold on for another week

[Triple_R]

This was probably my favorite episode of Refrain so far. Possibly my favorite LB! episode to date, including the first season episodes.

I thought this was a wonderful approach for JC Staff to take. As an anime-only viewer, I wanted to see that curtain finally get pulled back completely. I wanted to see it all laid out. And while there are some details, and a climax, left to be seen, I'm pretty satisfied with what was shown and explained here.

I also really liked the visual style used, which struck me as nicely creative, engaging, and at times, symbolically strong.


Perhaps most importantly, I think that Kyousuke's character needed this. He had taken considerable heat in recent weeks, especially from some of my fellow anime-only viewers. I think it was important to fully show the reasoning and rationale behind all of his actions, in order to clearly show that his heart was always in the right place, and that his thinking was reasonable.

Kyousuke is right - If Rin can't deal with other people being depressed over a tragedy striking them, then how can she be expected to deal with her own depression over the exact same tragedy striking her? Kyousuke's plan made perfect sense. If Rin could overcome this trial - If she could help other people deal with their pain - She'd be much better prepared to deal with her own pain upon finding out the awful truth in the real world.

At a broader level, this episode did a lot to nicely wrap up the full narrative, and bring everything together. It explained a couple of the more puzzling elements of Season 1 (such as Kengo's initial reluctance to join the Little Busters baseball team). It also did a good job of showing why the five new girls joined the original five Little Busters. Komari's dedication to Rin was truly heartwarming.


Now, I do have at least one criticism here. While this episode nicely answered the "why" questions, it leaves certain "how" questions unexplained. Specifically, how was Kyousuke able to create this time-loop, and/or this fake world? He's not a magical girl, he's not Haruhi Suzumiya, he's not a witch, so... But then, there's still time left to explain, and even if this show doesn't, this is Key. Being vaguely and mysteriously supernatural is (perhaps unfortunately) part of its distinctive style. So while a "how" explanation would be nice, I'm not going to hold any lack of one that much against it.

On the whole, a masterful 10/10 episode. A great way to setup the finale.