Dating

[Kakashi]

Heh this problem's intresting. My advice would be pay much less attention to her. If a girl intentionally ignored me and I knew about it, I wouldn't give her the time of day. Don't play stupid games with stupid girls because it's just a waste of your time. I'm not saying all girls do this but some really do enjoy doing exactly what you described.

Even if you like her, don't hurt yourself. In exchange for you trying to cheer her up, she ignores you? I'd say go to hell woman, but it's your choice. Live your life as you normally would but I wouldn't waste a second playing silly mind games with someone who either doesn't like you and is trying to hurt for liking her or is too childish to express herself. Go out and do your thing, talk to over girls, find a cool hobby and don't become too dependent on anyone. Make her do something to move your relationship foward, if she continues to be a jackass then she doesn't deserve to be your friend.

I actually say give up. Don't make any special effort for her and treat her like an average friend. If she starts to make an effort again then that might be a sign she likes you. Still don't let this girl make you write an essay on animesuki asking for advice. Tell her to cut the shit.

[Samari]

Originally Posted by kakashi-san

Heh this problem's intresting. My advice would be pay much less attention to her. If a girl intentionally ignored me and I knew about it, I wouldn't give her the time of day. Don't play stupid games with stupid girls because it's just a waste of your time. I'm not saying all girls do this but some really do enjoy doing exactly what you described.

Even if you like her, don't hurt yourself. In exchange for you trying to cheer her up, she ignores you? I'd say go to hell woman, but it's your choice. Live your life as you normally would but I wouldn't waste a second playing silly mind games with someone who either doesn't like you and is trying to hurt for liking her or is too childish to express herself. Go out and do your thing, talk to over girls, find a cool hobby and don't become too dependent on anyone. Make her do something to move your relationship foward, if she continues to be a jackass then she doesn't deserve to be your friend.

I actually say give up. Don't make any special effort for her and treat her like an average friend. If she starts to make an effort again then that might be a sign she likes you. Still don't let this girl make you write an essay on animesuki asking for advice. Tell her to cut the shit.

I agree. This girl seems very strange from the user's side of the story. Ignoring the person and then asking how they're doing on Facebook when they don't show up to the specified location. Seems like the girl is just weird and indecisive. That's a turnoff for me personally. But anyways, I'd say confront the girl and ask what the problem is and be direct. Or just forget about her. I've been through a similar issue, and it drove me crazy for two months. After a while I just moved on.

[Ledgem]

Originally Posted by bbduece

Haven't had a girlfriend in 3 years after a 6.5 year relationship. I'm getting way to indecisive these days. Anyone have a similiar problem?

Indecisive, how so?

Originally Posted by poopsicle

Hi, I'm having a bit of a girl problem :P. So I want to hear others opinions on it . Okay, so I met this really cute girl at school, we are currently in grade 11. I've seen her around in grade 9 and 10 but haven't spoken to her, during grade 11 she started coming up to me and chatting with me so I started to chat with her in the library after school for about an hour, and she initiated the convos on msn first for the past 5 months . We spoke everyday during school and at home on msn. After a month into it she told me she liked someone, and I told her I liked her :P. She seemed very sorry and everything went back to normal for the next 5 months, she knew for those 5 months that I liked her.So after a total of 6 months chatting with her and helping her with homework and at, as soon as second semester started everyday after school at the library she'd stare out the window and not say a word. Every single day she would come to the library and say "I'm tired" to me, so I would try to cheer her up by playing some games with her, making her laugh, looking at books,movies, and going home just to burn her movies to watch when she gets bored at home. So it's been 7 months in total, after second semester it's like she's totally ignoring me, she sits there and doesn't look at me at all, she stares out the window. I was curious so there was one day I didn't talk at all to see if she would talk first, in the end it was an hour of no talking and her parents came, all she said that day was "Bye". Whenever one of my other friends come to the library she talks to them like she spoke with me when we first met, and when my friend leaves she goes back to silence. It feels like I'm just an object that sits at the library now, she doesn't really even notice me, and she always complains about being tired to me. One of my friends got mad at me cuz he cared, he told me to stop trying, so finally I began to walk home after school, and it's been 2 weeks of not seeing her at all. She wrote on my facebook "how are you, I don't see you anymore"( I didn't respond to it). So yea.. am I doing the right thing? Because I don't want to get hurt, so letting me forget about her and letting her forget about me would really help wouldn't it? I don't feel like I'm being treated properly as a friend by her either .

It's always hard to give advice when we're hearing a second-hand account of what's going on. I think a lot of others are visualizing this girl as some evil witch, but I have a bit of a kinder view of her. She clearly hasn't forgotten about you.

So let's get to the important part: what do you want? Think about it for a bit. Do you want to date her? Would you be OK just being friends with her? Would you be OK to be turned down by her?

Once you know what you want, without considering what she wants, then you can better decide what to do next. If you really want to be with this girl no matter what but you're not sure that you'll be treated properly, then put some distance between the two of you to get it out of your system. If you'd be OK to be friends with her (and maybe something more), then spend more time with her. You've already confessed your feelings for her, so I'd imagine that it shouldn't be too hard to be up-front and ask her why she's treating you that way. Look, for all we know she's having problems at home and you're the only person she feels like she can open up to, and this is her way of doing it, by hinting.

All the same, we can't rule out the fact that she knows you like or liked her. Some girls (especially the ones who know that they're cute/beautiful) feel that they can wrap enamored men around their fingers and dump them when they get bored or use up all of their money. If you know what you want, you'll be better able to avoid being used or hurt by her.

I'd find out more about her first. If she has a good reason for doing what she's doing, that clears it. If she has some nasty views, get her out of your system for your own self-interest.

[poopsicle]

Lol, thanks a lot people for your support. I forgot to mention something big. The first month of us becoming friends I asked her if she liked anyone and she said ya. She is a very shy and short girl :P. All my friends say she's cute so do the girls . She's probably the nicest girl I've ever met in my life, until she changed, which was really shocking for such a person like her. It's not even about me wanting a relationship anymore, all I wanted was the old her to atleast treat me as a good friend like I treat her, the reason I left was cuz actually after all of second semester 5 months so far of trying to cheer her up I felt sick inside and even wanted to cry but can't. So as far as this goes I can't even keep her as a friend even if I wanted to, it's not even aobut trying to get her anymore. Yesterday I also asked ehr if she cared that I like her, she replies "I don't know" and says nothing afterwards, the way she said it was very plain like someone casually talking with you and that their question had no significance what so ever. So that killed me inside, that was the day I was hoping she'd atleast care about after I came back. In the end I just said "cya then" and she said "bye" without any care, I do not know what I could've done.

[Samari]

Originally Posted by poopsicle

Lol, thanks a lot people for your support. I forgot to mention something big. The first month of us becoming friends I asked her if she liked anyone and she said ya. She is a very shy and short girl :P. All my friends say she's cute so do the girls . She's probably the nicest girl I've ever met in my life, until she changed, which was really shocking for such a person like her. It's not even about me wanting a relationship anymore, all I wanted was the old her to atleast treat me as a good friend like I treat her, the reason I left was cuz actually after all of second semester 5 months so far of trying to cheer her up I felt sick inside and even wanted to cry but can't. So as far as this goes I can't even keep her as a friend even if I wanted to, it's not even aobut trying to get her anymore. Yesterday I also asked ehr if she cared that I like her, she replies "I don't know" and says nothing afterwards, the way she said it was very plain like someone casually talking with you and that their question had no significance what so ever. So that killed me inside, that was the day I was hoping she'd atleast care about after I came back. In the end I just said "cya then" and she said "bye" without any care, I do not know what I could've done.

Sounds like a mean girl. I hate women like that. The number one turnoff for me is women that are indirect and or "play games". I cannot stand that at all.

[Kakashi]

Originally Posted by bluejazz87

Sounds like a mean girl. I hate women like that. The number one turnoff for me is women that are indirect and or "play games". I cannot stand that at all.

Same here. Most men have had women play games with them. Though some keep falling for the same tricks time and time again. Don't be one of those guys that becomes overly clingy and pathetic. Right now your just trying to figure out what's going on in her head, I understand but don't bother. From what I've heard she clearly doesn't look at you in a romantic way but she's being ambigous about her feelings because she loves the attention. Blue jazz described her right: mean girl. I think it's time to move on, you sound like a great guy and there are plenty of nice girls out there. Heck if I were a girl I would go out with you! Moving on...

Ledgem I think your giving this girl too much credit. Have you ever been played? It can hurt. Any girl worth liking wouldn't do that kind of thing.

[Samari]

Originally Posted by kakashi-san

Same here. Most men have had women play games with them. Though some keep falling for the same tricks time and time again. Don't be one of those guys that becomes overly clingy and pathetic. Right now your just trying to figure out what's going on in her head, I understand but don't bother. From what I've heard she clearly doesn't look at you in a romantic way but she's being ambigous about her feelings because she loves the attention. Blue jazz described her right: mean girl. I think it's time to move on, you sound like a great guy and there are plenty of nice girls out there. Heck if I were a girl I would go out with you! Moving on...

Ledgem I think your giving this girl too much credit. Have you ever been played? It can hurt. Any girl worth liking wouldn't do that kind of thing.

Agreed. I used to fall for the same tricks over and over. But not anymore. Don't get me wrong, I'm patient, but not as much as I used to be. Can't play these childish games anymore.

[Ledgem]

Originally Posted by kakashi-san

Ledgem I think your giving this girl too much credit. Have you ever been played? It can hurt. Any girl worth liking wouldn't do that kind of thing.

I don't really know if I've been played - I like to think that I have a good enough judgement to avoid women like that, but the first girl I dated turned out to be someone that, in hindsight, I probably would have avoided. So I'm at least aware that we can be deceived even if it isn't the other person's intent to do so. It only gets worse when there's a malicious intent, especially if you're trying to put yourself out there.

You need to put yourself first, for certain. In a relationship of any length or to any degree of commitment, if you're not happy then it's eventually going to get worse up to the point that it impacts the person on the other end. At that point you'll likely both be miserable, and the relationship should end. When you enter into a more committed relationship you should definitely give your partner a much higher priority and make some more sacrifices for her (or him), but never forget that you need to be happy, too. If you're not happy with the way things are going, it's going to impact your partner. (Ideally your partner should also be concerned for your happiness and be willing to make changes for you, too.)

With regard to poopsicle's specific situation, I just felt like giving a more optimistic view on this girl It's quite possible that she's one of the manipulative type, and poopsicle should definitely be careful so that he isn't taken advantage of. So now poopsicle has also stated that she's the shy type, and that she was also the nicest girl that he'd ever known but that there's been a recent change. Shy girls can still be manipulative, but I usually don't associate the two traits. If she had a rather sudden change, I'd think that she's either cold-shouldering poopsicle (or otherwise trying to get him away from her), or that something happened to her. Given that she tried to make contact with him after she hadn't seen him for a while, I don't really think that she's cold-shouldering him or wants him to stay away from her.

But look, if you're really being negatively impacted by this then you need to consider your own well-being. I'd try to get to the bottom of it. Ask her if something happened, or even be up-front and tell her that you've noticed a change in her and want the old her back. Those are the sorts of things that can make a relationship/strong friendship or break your relationship with her, but at the rate things are going it seems like you're going to have to cut her out of your life for your own well-being. Since it's clear that you do care, you owe it to yourself to do what you can to get to the bottom of the issue before you move on for your own good. It might not amount to anything, but then again it might amount to something great - and if you make yourself happy and save her in the process, isn't that the ideal situation that we always see in stories? Let us know how it goes, but remember to consider your own well-being first. Don't be afraid to make sacrifices, but don't subject yourself to misery needlessly.

[poopsicle]

Hey , trust me when I say this :P, but I've tried asking every possible question you guys could think of. "Is there anything wrong?" I've also told her she changed and all, and told her that I missed the old her. Her response was "That's just the way I am" but I know it's not, because why would I be worried about her or ask her those questions if she didn't change? I ran out of things to say to her, I don't think she cares much about me as a friend either so I decided to just end the friendship .

[Samari]

Originally Posted by poopsicle

Hey , trust me when I say this :P, but I've tried asking every possible question you guys could think of. "Is there anything wrong?" I've also told her she changed and all, and told her that I missed the old her. Her response was "That's just the way I am" but I know it's not, because why would I be worried about her or ask her those questions if she didn't change? I ran out of things to say to her, I don't think she cares much about me as a friend either so I decided to just end the friendship .

I'm surprised you went back to her yet again.

[Miko Miko]

Righhht,, I am 14.. I go out with a guy thats 16.

Everyone says its okay, except my dad doesnt accept it. Even though he is older he is such a sweet guy too. Should i stop seeing him.. like my dad wants?

[Irenicus]

Originally Posted by Miko Miko

Everyone says its okay, except my dad doesnt accept it. Even though he is older he is such a sweet guy too. Should i stop seeing him.. like my dad wants?

Two years, even as young as 14 and 16 (in which a year can translate to a lot), is not all that far apart really.

Aside from the two years age difference -- which is not much of an issue, honestly, considering many girls your age tend to date older guys -- does your dad has any other reason for objecting to the relationship? Sometimes parents have good reasons to object to something, some other times they're just being a bit protective, and yet some other times (and I rather hope it is rare) they use their own values and viewpoints to judge the situation of a younger generation.

[Circular Logic]

Originally Posted by Miko Miko

Righhht,, I am 14.. I go out with a guy thats 16.

Everyone says its okay, except my dad doesnt accept it. Even though he is older he is such a sweet guy too. Should i stop seeing him.. like my dad wants?

Depends on the guy. But there's quite a big difference between 14 and 16. Your dad might be being paranoid. But then again he might not. Depends on whom you're with. Not much help I suppose

[TinyRedLeaf]

Originally Posted by Miko Miko

Righhht,, I am 14.. I go out with a guy thats 16.

Everyone says its okay, except my dad doesnt accept it. Even though he is older he is such a sweet guy too. Should i stop seeing him.. like my dad wants?

Is this the same guy who kissed you without asking? Did you ask your father to explain why you should stop seeing your boyfriend?

[Minna]

I have been following this thread for quite a while and have finally decided to post a reply. It was actually my intention to post this yesterday, but since I got home rather late from a concert I just couldn't find the time for it.

Originally Posted by Circular Logic

I'll take my eroge and anime over RL girls any day. >>

燃ええええええええええええええええｗ

Originally Posted by Circular Logic

What Kayos said. And RL girls pale personalitywise in comparison to their 2-D counterparts :3 </bitter>

I don't agree with this, and I honestly hope that you don't mean this a 100% seriously and that you will reconsider at some point. >.>

Originally Posted by kayos

^ It's a much simpler life when you don't have to answer to anyone. Do whatever you want anytime you want.

Being single = Hassle free (to an extent)

Hmm... I agree with most of this. However, I'm not sure I would really call it "hassle free". There will, of course, be both good and bad aspects in every relationship, but I suppose that if you just found someone who seemed "right", there wouldn't be any worries about such things as you mentioned.

Originally Posted by King Lycan

But ...u feel lonely after a while

I really disagree. Some people, perhaps even the majority, would feel lonely but it certainly doesn't apply for everyone. I can't answer for Circular Logic or anyone else, but personally I have never really felt lonely and I don't think I ever will. Feelings are so different from one person to another. It depends a great deal on who that person is and how that person's view on life, relationships, etc. is. The majority of all people would most likely feel quite lonely if they had met someone they really cared for, but for some reason couldn't be with at all/as much as they wanted. However, that didn't seem to be the case here.

Originally Posted by Circular Logic

I don't know. When the vast majority of girls around you drink to self-oblivion, find the nearest male to drag into bed and whose only interest is in finding their next rave/party, you quite quickly go off females.

I assume that you aren't the male version of these girls then? Since those exist too. I know how it feels though, a lot of my classmates, and other people around me, are like this. Less than a half year ago I mainly saw all the "bad" things about guys, but recently I have started to notice the girls too. I used to think that those kind of guys were morons and such: These days I think the exact some about the girls, really. And in my opinion their behaviour is a quite big problem. I'm not saying that the youth shouldn't have any fun at parties, with each other and so on, but it seems to take up all their time and be their lifestyle. I personally think of it as a bit destructive, since most of them seem to have a really bad attitude towards school and other important things as well. In my opinion it's quite sad, since most people here have a chance to really "become something" - Education-wise. Anyway... That was a bit off-topic. So, I'm not sure if I should say "Don't give up", "Keep searching" or something along those lines... Whenever I get "annoyed" by their behaviour I just think: "Well, I'm "different". My opinions about this matter are quite different and surely there must be others who feel and think the same as me". And I personally don't spend (more like waste >.>) much time or any feelings on these people.

It's probably a bit off-topic, but I often get questions like these:
Random classmate: "Minna, are you coming to the party Friday night?"
Me: "No."
Random classmate: "Why not?"
Me: "I think it's a waste of my time/I don't like wasting my time".
Now, the sad thing about this is that a lot of them actually get rather angry, somehow thinking I'm insulting their lifestyle by not wanting to be a part of their "social group".

Originally Posted by Marina

That is a problem. Since you seem to be a fan of Nodame Cantabile, have you ever tried musicians?
As a piano student, I interact with many musicians every day. The good majority of them are wonderful people, and lemme tell you, a girl who plays cello? She's gotta be one awesome girl to man that sexy instrument between her legs Also piano students: at least the ones I know, usually are down to earth and know how to have fun without getting drunk. I guess I just gravitate to more of the orchestral musicians since their personalities seem more promising for future friendship and relationships.

Agreed with Supah Em that 2D girls usually (not always) tend to be perfect models created by the author for his liking and the audience's liking.

I happen to be a female cellist - Only a beginner though. I'm not sure if I would call myself awesome or the cello "sexy", but thank you for the compliment?

Originally Posted by Circular Logic

I'll take your advice about the musicians.

Thing is, does the fact that you know a character is a creation pandering to certain tastes make it any less attractive?

As mentioned I was at a concert yesterday and I had time to notice the other musicians as well. If you don't like the kind of girls who think they are oh-so-beautiful-and-wonderful and "love" to perfom in front of as many people as possible either, don't go for a singer. A lot of them, of course not all of them, seem to be like that. The word that pops to my mind while trying to describe them is "shallow". However, I'm positive that sweet and "normal" girls who sing exist as well! It was just an observation I made.

Originally Posted by poopsicle

Lol, thanks a lot people for your support. I forgot to mention something big. The first month of us becoming friends I asked her if she liked anyone and she said ya. She is a very shy and short girl :P. All my friends say she's cute so do the girls . She's probably the nicest girl I've ever met in my life, until she changed, which was really shocking for such a person like her. It's not even about me wanting a relationship anymore, all I wanted was the old her to atleast treat me as a good friend like I treat her, the reason I left was cuz actually after all of second semester 5 months so far of trying to cheer her up I felt sick inside and even wanted to cry but can't. So as far as this goes I can't even keep her as a friend even if I wanted to, it's not even aobut trying to get her anymore. Yesterday I also asked ehr if she cared that I like her, she replies "I don't know" and says nothing afterwards, the way she said it was very plain like someone casually talking with you and that their question had no significance what so ever. So that killed me inside, that was the day I was hoping she'd atleast care about after I came back. In the end I just said "cya then" and she said "bye" without any care, I do not know what I could've done.

I have a question - Bolded text. Can't cry? How come? Because you don't think it's worth the tears? Or because you're a guy and it's not accepted for you to cry? - Sadly.

As for the rest about you and this girl, I agree with pretty much all the things Ledgem wrote.

Originally Posted by Miko Miko

Righhht,, I am 14.. I go out with a guy thats 16.

Everyone says its okay, except my dad doesnt accept it. Even though he is older he is such a sweet guy too. Should i stop seeing him.. like my dad wants?

I don't think you should stop seeing the guy if he really means something to you. Always remember that you, yourself, is the most important person to you - Or should be, at least. I don't really see any big problem about the age difference, since girls are often more mature than the guys at their own age.

I probably forgot something, but this will be it for now.

[poopsicle]

Originally Posted by bluejazz87

I'm surprised you went back to her yet again.

I didn't go back I asked those questions months ago :P

[Ledgem]

Originally Posted by Minna

I don't think you should stop seeing the guy if he really means something to you. Always remember that you, yourself, is the most important person to you - Or should be, at least. I don't really see any big problem about the age difference, since girls are often more mature than the guys at their own age.

I was originally going to not say anything in response to Miko Miko but I did want to give some thoughts on it. I'm torn between advising Miko Miko to break it off or not; the values of what to do also vary from culture to culture.

On one hand, you don't want to allow this to get in the way of your relationship with a parent. Some cultures would dictate that your parents' opinions should override your own, but I don't necessarily agree with that. On the other hand, recognize that this is a gamble. The guy you're dating could possibly contribute a lot to your life - perhaps he's even "the one" (as in, the one you'll live happily ever after with). If that's the case, it's worth the potential friction with your parent. However, it's a gamble either way - the guy could turn out to be horrible, or things could go poorly. In that case you're left with a sad love story and a potentially worsened relationship with a parent. That's the ultimate loss scenario. How likely it is to occur depends on your relationship with both the boy and your father.

The age difference between 16 and 14 is quite large, as well. Time-wise it really isn't a big deal; for example, we might think of a 50 year old as being about the same as a 52 year old. The difference is that people go through less drastic changes as they get older - there are exceptions, but this is generally accepted and known. When I think back to how I was when I was 14 and when I was 16, the differences were immense.

There are two other things to be careful of. In keeping with the age topic, you need to balance what you're feeling because he's an older guy, and also wonder what he's feeling because you're a younger girl. It's easier to explain this with an example. In my town there were a number of guys who were basically college-age, but they never went to college and they never left the area. These guys would hang around the high school, smoking, driving their loud cars - basically, doing a whole lot of nothing. I mean no offense in saying this, but those guys were basically losers. They weren't doing anything with their lives, they weren't going anywhere, they weren't making anything of themselves. However, as a high schooler, they were "cool" - they were seen as adults, they had sports cars and could drive, and they were older. From elementary school to high school, your age had a huge impact on your reputation.

My sister, back then either a freshman or sophomore in high school (age 14-15) dated two or three guys who were as I described. They must have been anywhere from 16-18 years old. My sister was infatuated - here was an older guy, and he took an interest in her. It must have done wonders to her self esteem, to feel that she was worthwhile enough that one of these older guys would take an interest in her. Of course, the relationship didn't last long. My sister is now 20, and she's disgusted with the idea that she dated those guys. Now that she's a university student and she's going somewhere with her life, she recognizes that those guys were "scummy" (in her words) and she wonders why a 16-18 year old guy would have an interest in a 14 year old girl. I wonder it, as well. It's easy for an older guy to woo a younger girl, but what's his motive? Beyond a certain age difference, how can the two relate? A guy who's starting college and a high school girl are going through completely different things in life. I'm not saying that it can't be done - I know it can, but I get very skeptical about it. Why wouldn't the guy go for someone his own age, someone who's going through a similar period of life and can relate to him?


The other thing to be careful of is more general and deals with being in a relationship at all, particularly in the beginning. You will be blinded by love, essentially. Neuroscience has shown that for at least a short period, the brain behaves similarly to a drug addiction when dealing with thoughts/the presence of your partner. (From an evolutionary standpoint, this was likely a mechanism to encourage the pair to stay together for long enough that a child could be concieved - but that's just speculation.) In other words, as you begin to take the relationship seriously your thoughts may heavily sway toward it, and you may not think rationally.

Again with an example, I experienced this with the first girl I dated pretty badly. In hindsight she treated me rather poorly, but I always assumed that I was doing something wrong. I was dedicated and wanted it to work out, so I figured that if I could change enough and gain enough experience then perhaps we could live happily ever after. My friends were very happy for me, but a number of them noticed that things weren't quite as good as I thought they were; I didn't listen to them. After about a month of dating I realized that there was a problem and that it wasn't on my end, and broke the relationship off. I knew about the chemical changes that were occurring in my brain back then, but it still took me so long to recognize the relationship for what it was.

That doesn't apply to all males, but I'd imagine that it does for a lot of them. I don't know exactly how it impacts the female end, but I'd guess that it might be something similar. There's an even worse aspect for females, though. That first girl I dated told me about her previous boyfriends. Apparently the relationship with one of them was a bad relationship, and she recognized that even while she was in it. However, she stayed in it for months. I asked her why she would do that - if it was so bad, and she recognized it, wasn't it better to free herself of it? She didn't want to be alone, was her response. She was willing to put up with a bad relationship just because she wanted to be in a relationship - I can only speculate as to why she wanted to be in a relationship so badly (loneliness? For the social status aspect? For any boost to self esteem that it offered?) Either way, don't let that be you. A relationship isn't always going to be rainbows and sunshine in your life, but it should ideally be that way most of the time. Under our society, that's what it's for: to contribute something positive to your life. Make sure that that's happening. There's nothing you can really do to offset the chemical alterations in your brain, but do be aware of your feelings and constantly be evaluating the relationship as best you can. Don't try to pick out the flaws, but recognize when things are bothering you and do not dismiss them as simply being problems on your end!

And all that aside, have fun and enjoy it. It certainly is a wonderful feeling to know that you're loved by someone, and to be able to express affection back to them.

[Circular Logic]

As mentioned I was at a concert yesterday and I had time to notice the other musicians as well. If you don't like the kind of girls who think they are oh-so-beautiful-and-wonderful and "love" to perfom in front of as many people as possible either, don't go for a singer. A lot of them, of course not all of them, seem to be like that. The word that pops to my mind while trying to describe them is "shallow". However, I'm positive that sweet and "normal" girls who sing exist as well! It was just an observation I made.

Can I be horribly controversial and snobbish and say that that's the amateur pop singers, rather than the classical singers?

[Minna]

Well, Ledgem, I agree with you again. It's actually a difficult question, also keeping in mind that we have no idea what this guy is like. Perhaps I answered a bit too quickly... Anyway, about the age difference: I agree that the younger the two persons are, the bigger the difference in their experiences, maturity, behaviour and so on will be. A lot probably happens during those years. About the father not accepting it... Well, if he for some reason knows this guy and the guy is like the ones you wrote your sister had spent some time with, I suppose it's quite understandable. On the other hand he may just be a bit over-protective. I really don't know...

Originally Posted by Circular Logic

Can I be horribly controversial and snobbish and say that that's the amateur pop singers, rather than the classical singers?

You can and you're right. I should have taken that into account and written it in my post as well.

[raikage]

Originally Posted by Minna

I don't think you should stop seeing the guy if he really means something to you. Always remember that you, yourself, is the most important person to you - Or should be, at least. I don't really see any big problem about the age difference, since girls are often more mature than the guys at their own age.

I probably forgot something, but this will be it for now.

I disagree.

The first part was covered nicely, but the "girls are more mature" part always bothered me.

I never, ever believed that. (Well, physically that's true.) To me, girls think they're emotionally/mentally more mature than boys their age, but generally -- no, you are your age.

Heck, when I was in school most girls thought they were the most mature out of their group of friends. You can't each be the most mature.

Or, think of it this way:

You're 18 now. Look at people who are, say, 13-14 now.

Think about seeing 13 and 14 year olds at the mall, waiting for their parents at the library, wherever the heck it is people of that age go.

Are the girls noticeably more grown-up than the boys are?