Gundam Seed/Seed Destiny General Discussion Thread

[blitz1/2]

Originally Posted by monster

So are you saying Blitz took 3 seconds to take 3 steps while running? I doubt that; it's definitely slow motion, including the slow/sad tune to go with it.

The three steps were SLIGHTLY slower, but hardly slow motion. ANd as many posters pointed out, it was stupid as Nicol RAN into the blade and Kira PERFECTLY positions it several seconds before Blitz runs into it. Compare that to the original where Kira's movements were a LOT slower .

[CBredbeard]

Ugh, people like Aladdin?

[monster]

Originally Posted by blitz1/2

The three steps were SLIGHTLY slower, but hardly slow motion. ANd as many posters pointed out, it was stupid as Nicol RAN into the blade and Kira PERFECTLY positions it several seconds before Blitz runs into it. Compare that to the original where Kira's movements were a LOT slower .

It was stupid for Nichol to charge in with one arm and no beam weapon at a mobile suit with phase shift armor and a beam sword in the first place.

And taking one step a second while running is slow, not just slightly slow.

[Rising Dragon]

Nicol's actions were that of a sacrifice to buy Athrun a chance at escaping from the Strike. The reanimation seems to cheapen it, as instead of tragically taking a counterblow while failing to damage the Strike, it instead becomes... Nicol clumsily walking into a sword. It kills a good deal of the drama of the event while simultaneously figuratively washing Kira's hands of the blood spilled.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Nicol's actions were that of a sacrifice to buy Athrun a chance at escaping from the Strike. The reanimation seems to cheapen it, as instead of tragically taking a counterblow while failing to damage the Strike, it instead becomes... Nicol clumsily walking into a sword. It kills a good deal of the drama of the event while simultaneously figuratively washing Kira's hands of the blood spilled.

Sure, I agreed that the slow motion did not paint a good picture on Nichol. On the whole though, it's largely a cosmetic issue which did not hamper the result. On the other hand, as I said, Kira's action fits better with his reaction to the fact, so that's a plus for me.

[cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by quagmire

I see they made the Archangel able to submerge from the start instead of being a Destiny upgrade.

It's hard to tell if they had it or not. They were constantly traveling through ZAFT territory since landing on earth and at the time ZAFT seemed to specialize with submarines which would be better in the water than an all-purpose ship like the AA. Either that or the ship risked taking on too much water from damage if they were to submerge. Not to mention they would be limited on firepower since the skygrasper is an air unit and can't function under water. so they wouldn't be able to launch it if they submerged and ZAFT underwater unit are in general better than what they had.

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Nicol's actions were that of a sacrifice to buy Athrun a chance at escaping from the Strike. The reanimation seems to cheapen it, as instead of tragically taking a counterblow while failing to damage the Strike, it instead becomes... Nicol clumsily walking into a sword. It kills a good deal of the drama of the event while simultaneously figuratively washing Kira's hands of the blood spilled.

I wouldn't say it washes Kiras hands but makes it seem more deliberate. He reflexively did it in the original but the new version shows him almost deliberately setting up the attack. The camera angle when the attack hits isn't best for showing it since it was parallel to the blade but that doesn't mean Kira didn't put additional forward movement in to finish it up.

[monster]

Originally Posted by cyberdemon

It's hard to tell if they had it or not. They were constantly traveling through ZAFT territory since landing on earth and at the time ZAFT seemed to specialize with submarines which would be better in the water than an all-purpose ship like the AA. Either that or the ship risked taking on too much water from damage if they were to submerge. Not to mention they would be limited on firepower since the skygrasper is an air unit and can't function under water. so they wouldn't be able to launch it if they submerged and ZAFT underwater unit are in general better than what they had.

I think quagmire was talking about this image: http://imgur.com/lCldNlN

[cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by monster

I think quagmire was talking about this image: http://imgur.com/lCldNlN

I know. I was talking about their experience during their trip to alaska. They were almost always in ZAFT territory being chansed by submarines. They would be at the mercy of the submarines while under water. and when they were in friendly territory their ship was always too badly damaged to risk going under water. Their speed would also be greater in the air.

[monster]

Originally Posted by cyberdemon

I know. I was talking about their experience during their trip to alaska. They were almost always in ZAFT territory being chansed by submarines. They would be at the mercy of the submarines while under water. and when they were in friendly territory their ship was always too badly damaged to risk going under water. Their speed would also be greater in the air.

Sorry, I may have misunderstood you. I thought you weren't sure if the Archangel had the ability to submerge during SEED:

Originally Posted by cyberdemon

It's hard to tell if they had it or not.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Kurohane

Who's number 3 on the female side?

Heavy Cruiser Takao.

Aka Tsundere Heavy Cruiser. From Arpeggio of Blue Steel.

OTOH, yes, Battleship Mikasa deserve no.1 spot. She is awesome.

- Tak

[Deadpool2000]

Originally Posted by Tak

Heavy Cruiser Takao.

Aka Tsundere Heavy Cruiser. From Arpeggio of Blue Steel.

OTOH, yes, Battleship Mikasa deserve no.1 spot. She is awesome.

- Tak

Despite the awesomeness of Savior of Song I could not get into Arpeggio Blue... Or Takao.

[Aquaman OS]

Originally Posted by cyberdemon

I know. I was talking about their experience during their trip to alaska. They were almost always in ZAFT territory being chansed by submarines. They would be at the mercy of the submarines while under water. and when they were in friendly territory their ship was always too badly damaged to risk going under water. Their speed would also be greater in the air.

No it's almost certainly safe to say they didn't.

AA was pretty much totally invincible in Destiny when it went underwater in the Orb battle. It laughed at the Zaft submarines, taking out like 5 of them in a single volley.

AA would not have had nearly the trouble it did in Seed if it was equipped as it was in Destiny. Where it was invinicible underwater and undetectable at that.

During their interference arc nobody could see them coming and nobody could follow them as they went around the seas.

Angel Down was only a problem on land. Once they got to the water, even with only one engine Zaft still couldn't track and follow them, as they limped all the way back to Orb.

And them going underwater was an instant win. Minerva couldn't hit and the Zaft subs were helpless against them.

[cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by Aquaman OS

No it's almost certainly safe to say they didn't.

AA was pretty much totally invincible in Destiny when it went underwater in the Orb battle. It laughed at the Zaft submarines, taking out like 5 of them in a single volley.

AA would not have had nearly the trouble it did in Seed if it was equipped as it was in Destiny. Where it was invinicible underwater and undetectable at that.

During their interference arc nobody could see them coming and nobody could follow them as they went around the seas.

Angel Down was only a problem on land. Once they got to the water, even with only one engine Zaft still couldn't track and follow them, as they limped all the way back to Orb.

And them going underwater was an instant win. Minerva couldn't hit and the Zaft subs were helpless against them.

The aa didn't have the power at that point in seed though that it did in destiny. Strike is mediocre in the water and took everything Kira had to beat the mobile suits and the sky grasper is useless in water. Taking out the subs in the battle of orb is one thing because they weren't focused solely on the aa so the aa took them by surprise. Minerva didn't have the means to chase them because they lacked underwater capabilities. Plus the explosion of the engine made many think it was destroyed so they didn't need to continue. Also the first thing Minerva did when aa went under water was to take to the air because it is safer there when dealing with underwater foes.

[Deadpool2000]

I don't buy it. There were quite a few situations where diving underwater in Seed would have helped...

[Gundamx]

Originally Posted by Deadpool2000

Despite the awesomeness of Savior of Song I could not get into Arpeggio Blue... Or Takao.

ignore the anime -> read the manga

about AA -> retcon for the sake of manga?
(no one like to read same stuff happened in anime -> they why they give us things like Aegis upgrade)

[Aquaman OS]

Originally Posted by cyberdemon

The aa didn't have the power at that point in seed though that it did in destiny. Strike is mediocre in the water and took everything Kira had to beat the mobile suits and the sky grasper is useless in water.

It's mobile suits have nothing to do with it's ability to remain undetected in water. If anything it's the other way around and the mobile suits can be deployed secretly. Again, They wouldn't have to worry about Athrun's team finding them if they could submerge and be as undetectable as they were in Destiny.

Originally Posted by cyberdemon

Taking out the subs in the battle of orb is one thing because they weren't focused solely on the aa so the aa took them by surprise.

Surprise or not, if one torpedo from AA is all it takes to sink the Zaft mook subs then they have nothing to fear by submerging and fighting them underwater. They could have easily crushed Marco or the generic sub guy shuttling Athrun around. The Zaft mook subs pretty much suck on all fronts except that in Seed they were the only subs apparantly in use, and therefore safe from everyone. In Destiny they are one shoted by anything with anti sub weapons. Heck Abyss's peashooter cannons were enough to sink them in one shot.

Originally Posted by cyberdemon

Plus the explosion of the engine made many think it was destroyed so they didn't need to continue.

Everyone in Zaft agreed it wasn't enough wreckage for a ship to be destroyed so AA almost certainly got away, and they had crews combing the water immediately trying to find them but AA still gave them the slip despite being damage with only one engine. That is how stealthy and efficiently it can move underwater.

Originally Posted by cyberdemon

Also the first thing Minerva did when aa went under water was to take to the air because it is safer there when dealing with underwater foes.

They took to the air because they'd effectively lost their way to win. Their beam weapons wouldn't work, and they couldn't aim their solid cannon downwards, while AA could still fire its railguns at them. It wasn't just for safer way to fight them, Talia essentially had to give up.


You don't seem to understand just how effective their ability to submerge was. It was pretty much the only way they were able to sneak around in Destiny as they did, and if they had it in Seed would have used it during the whole ocean/Orb arc, and not just bemoaned them being a sitting duck out in the open.

More importantly if AA had it in Seed, then Minerva (which was basically intentionally built to be just like AA) would have had it.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by CBredbeard

Ugh, people like Aladdin?

From the result of the poll, yes they do (at least for whichever group of people this polling is derived from). Also, you can say the exact same thing about any character on that list (eg. “Ugh, people actually like Charlotte?”). I mean, if a character like Shinn can make it to the top 5 in the previous Newtype rankings, every other character can do it too . You just need them to be popular enough and well-exposed. After that, people's tastes will do the rest. The actual quality of the characters can take a backseat.

Originally Posted by Gundamx

ignore the anime -> read the manga.

Then that makes me a happy camper since I can enjoy both the anime & manga for what they are .

[monster]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

The actual quality of the characters can take a backseat.

The actual quality of the characters are defined by people's taste, not ignored by it. Differing tastes simply measure qualities differently.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by monster

The actual quality of the characters are defined by people's taste, not ignored by it. Differing tastes simply measure qualities differently.

Quality characters who are (objectively) well-written do exist along with quality stories. If not, there will be no B movies and Oscar-worthy movies in the world today. What I’m saying is that Newtype polling is leaning more on fan-favorites than quality (just like MTV Movie Awards). I’m not saying quality is totally ignored, but they indeed took a backseat when it comes to this kind of polling.

This doesn’t mean I’m complaining about Newtype poll for doing exactly what it's meant to do. I consider it fun in its own way, but sometimes, it can be painful too when some of the “champions” get their places only due to the sheer power of the vocal fans. I still remember how hard I shook my head when Twilight (a movie so lacking in quality) won so many categories in MTV Movie Awards beating the likes of The Dark Knight and many other well-made movies. That’s the power of fan-favorites for you .

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Gundamx

about AA -> retcon for the sake of manga?
(no one like to read same stuff happened in anime -> they why they give us things like Aegis upgrade)

Yeah, the anime version was a bit peculiar. One of the biggest reason being the absence of YAMATO. That ship is so iconic it'd usually appear in any fiction involving WW2 ships.

Then there is the Bismarck. It was remarked that mental models took up female forms because ships are often given a female designation. Well, the Bismarck is an exception, as it was intentionally referred to as a he...

But if you read the manga, you know whats up

- Tak