2012-07-14, 11:52 | Link #21 |
Absolute Haruhist!
Artist
Join Date: Mar 2006
Age: 36
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Only a very few handful of animators get recognised in the entire industry with thousands of animators who put the most amount of effort in their entire productions.
In an anime, the most popular cast that works on the artistic aspect of productions by far are the seiyuu, with huge followings of fans, they are idolised and appear on seiyuu magazines. Next are the directors and writers, people know their names, the productions they worked on. Compared to them, the thousands of animators who do the bulk of the hardwork on the productions, visuals which make up most of the audience's experience of an anime, have almost no recognition. Veteran key animators who are famous only get known by a specific hardcore sakuga fandom after more than a decade of work, while new seiyuus can be shot to stardom in their first major role. No one else knows the secondary animators who fills in the thousands of in betweens, or the colourist who has to colour it in a way that the shades and highlights are animated. And then these animators get paid less than directors and writers who do the least amount of work in comparison within a single production. There's no magazine about animators that fans want to buy every month, despite watching so much anime that were made from scratch with the animators' hands.
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2012-07-14, 14:55 | Link #22 | ||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
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For KyoAni, geographical isolation forces them to make long-term investment in employees, so conditions are likely better. They also compete on quality. Nevertheless, reality isn't as rosy as their PR will have you believe. Contrary to company claims, workers do stay overnight to meet deadlines (official policy may not directly dictate this, but what happens to staff who go home early when everyone else works long hours?). You also have people leaving KyoAni for the chaos of Tokyo, so conditions can't be that fantastic. Quote:
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You can see where the conflict lies. The animator sees the production manager/assistant as an annoying slave driver because of low pay and brutal schedule demands. Meanwhile, the producer (who tends to be relatively outgoing and organized) sees the animator as a socially inept jerk who has no responsibility or regard for anyone else. Quote:
Some animate out of genuine love for the craft. Others are involved because they have nowhere else to go. Anime companies will readily hire people with no skill or college background, so to some workers, having the job still beats unemployment/homelessness. Few of the latter have any future in the industry (and as some veteran animators argue, they complain but make no effort to learn or improve their situation). Nevertheless, the studios will take advantage of their involvement just to get things done cheaply. |
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2012-07-14, 18:36 | Link #23 | |
Hyakko Fanboy
Join Date: Nov 2008
Age: 32
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Oh I do recognize there is possibility of sugar coating on every "positive" article out there regarding the industry, still nice to hear even just a bit better situation, because we all know the situation was really bad.
You can only hear good news about animators if they're enjoying their work so much, like back then in The Idolm@ster anime production (just because they're otaku too, n crazy with Idolm@ster) bar that, you hear nothing. Quote:
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2012-07-14, 23:10 | Link #24 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
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Isn't there something like a guild for animators and visual artists/workers? You know, to try and balance out the situation against the inhuman requirements of this industry?
I don't know much about how Japan manages these things in general, but they do seem pretty conformist and unwilling to uphold their rights when vulnerated. Maybe it's a cultural bias I'm having, but for how many years have the conditions of the anime industry been the same? Not to say any other country or company is any better, the common objective of every private corp is to make money at all costs, after all, but the way these ex-workers put it when they rant, it's like only an already insane person would be able to work in the industry for more than six months. I recall some actions that denoted a willingness to change the situation, such as the Young Animator Training Project, but that's too small a grain in this supposed sea of shitty working conditions. |
2012-07-14, 23:17 | Link #25 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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The answer is that the working conditions are marginal and do indeed sometimes suck but there's a "sour grapes" aspect to some of the extremely negative stories. The author was writing about his experience - we'll assume that he's relating his experience allowing for his disgust with the other workers.
I've also read other stories where the pay was low but there was much more comradeship. What I take from the aggregate of all these stories is: 1) the pay is terrible, its less stressful working at 7-11. 2) the companies do a HORRIFICALLY TERRIBLE job of retaining/growing talent - not being racist here but management jackassery/incompetence takes on special damage in a culture where everyone is too "polite" to point shit out. 3) Otaku need to be thrown into hygiene/etiquette/social bootcamp en masse
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2012-07-15, 00:33 | Link #26 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
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Cindy Yamauchi has posted a few things from the perspective of a senior animator. She isn't particularly understanding or sensitive to the plight of junior staff, but she does shed some light into how some others in the industry view things. Link 1 Link 2 Link 3 Link 4 Link 5 |
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2012-07-15, 02:01 | Link #27 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
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I'm now curious as to who "Studio X" and "A-san" are.
For the rest, reading Yamauchi's posts it's like "our word against theirs". She says the industry isn't that bad, other animators who quit say it is. Personally, I think Yamauchi is somewhat naive on her views and am inclined to think more pessimistically |
2012-07-15, 04:02 | Link #30 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Ŋ\(š_o)/Ŋ
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It's not going not going to be any of those studios that you see get their names plastered across the show for animation production.
It's going to be one of those smaller and less known ones that take on all the outsourcing stuff. Even if we knew the name, I doubt any of us would even recognise it. Remember, towards the end of the blog, the studio was running into a work shortage problem.
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2012-07-15, 05:17 | Link #31 |
今宵の虎徹は血に飢えている
Join Date: Jan 2009
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All those problems mentioned plague even serious sectors like engineering or manufacturing. For an industry that depends so much on freelancers like animation it will just hit them even harder.
All in all though, find me someone these days who is genuinely happy with his job....It is just a symptom of a far bigger problem.
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2012-07-15, 05:41 | Link #32 | |
Giga Drill Breaker
Join Date: Jan 2009
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2012-07-15, 07:01 | Link #33 |
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2006
Age: 38
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But then they'll slowly develop a sense of self-worth! If that happens, who in the world is going to animate anything? What we need are selfless workers who will do anything for the love of anime and the occasional korean BBQ from the director--that's all an animator needs.
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2012-07-15, 07:59 | Link #34 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
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Change a few names and we could be talking about Walmart. Most animators are pretty much factory workers. The animation process requires a lot of tedious work that requires relatively little creative skill. |
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2012-07-15, 09:10 | Link #36 |
The Voice of Reason
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: The Netherlands
Age: 47
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They pretty much are, but that goes for a lot of other people as well. A lot of work is highly repetitive and pays poorly. However, that doesn't have to hinder you enjoying your work. If it does, and you can find something else, go for it. Else, accept that you're forever fated to work in poor conditions and find something in your work to enjoy. That is what the author seemed to be talking about.
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2012-07-16, 13:06 | Link #37 | |
Deadpan Snarker
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: The Neverlands
Age: 46
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Is it an art to paint a car? Special-painting a car maybe But what is the art in drawing 100's of frames It isn't art, it IS mass production just like spraypainting 70 red cars, 34 blue, 120 black Argue about work/wage discrepancies, but making an anime is like building a ship specialized jobs, gruntwork, the whole shebang ...but only the designer and the contractor get the credit
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2012-07-16, 13:16 | Link #38 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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In-betweeners has *always* been just sweatshop work anywhere its done. I'll grant the anime industry may be just a bit crappier to them but I doubt it (how many US cartoons are outsourced to Korean or other 'sweatshops' once the storyboarding and key frames are done) but the garment industry would laugh it's head off at the whining.
To me there's more of a story of just how much of a reek there can be with socially dysfunctional otaku. That's something you don't see in most countries... and it is especially odd in a culture that has been known for personal hygiene standards for centuries.
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2012-07-16, 18:13 | Link #39 |
Absolute Haruhist!
Artist
Join Date: Mar 2006
Age: 36
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In betweeners don't suffer the same fate everywhere, especially for established giants like Disney.
My animation professor was a British guy who was literally picked off the streets at 17 to become an in betweener for Disney, how that happened is another long story. There was absolutely no reason he would refused such a job and he was paid hundreds of dollars per day just for inbetweens. Disney also pays his 2 hour cab rides in the morning and night every day, he didn't mind the long travelling times at all. He found great pride in his job and was able to commit and work really hard for the studio. Soon he was promoted to do key frames in many other productions including Roger Rabbit where he even got to meet the actors. My 3D lecturer started out freelancing for various Hollywood movies and soon he was brought into the Lord of the Rings studio to work right with the crew in New Zealand. In the Fellowship of the Ring, he worked on giving background characters who wear green suits animated pieces of armour. He worked on the backgrounds of battles such as the one where Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli battled the orc raiders on the green hills. By the second movie he was already given more important jobs and a better studio space, he works directly beside the animatronic Treebeard set where Merry sat on his shoulder. He could touch actual props and even hang out with actors and drink with Orlando Bloom at bars. This lecturer now has such a huge Hollywood portfolio that people are calling him up for jobs, he even got offered a position in Blizzard. The studio you go to and the productions you work on are extremely important to the portfolios and careers of any animator. Its just not worth working on anime as they simply do not provide you with not just cash but any chance of an enjoyable and fulfilling job experience. Yes some will make it somehow, but its an extremely low chance and near impossible for foreigners.
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2012-07-16, 20:10 | Link #40 |
Giga Drill Breaker
Join Date: Jan 2009
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some good news anime streaming subscription (Neon Alley and Crunchyroll) will come to PS3 soon -> http://www.tgdaily.com/games-and-ent...-coming-to-ps3
although its not a japanese initiative though, americans maximizes the potential of internet for profit again, but still good news that anime can gain more profit from this move |
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