Character Discussion - Accelerator

[Accelerator fan]

Spoiler for My thoughts:

Here is what we know it seems that Aleister can create a Lvl 6 by combining Accelerator, Last Order, and Kazakiri. but he don't want to because Lvl 6 is only a multiple dimensions being and doesnt think like a human so he can't communicate with it or control him.

He hate magic and can destroy it but he won't for some reason(maybe he want to save them rather then kill them).

all his plan relate to the Aeon of Horus but didn't he already reached that with Aiwass.

maybe he want something beyond the Aeon of Horus maybe he want the Aeon of Ma'at the one said to replace the present one.

If we know Aleister he won't be satisfied with just the Aeon of Horus after all becoming a magic god wasn't good enough for him Lvl 6 wasn't good enough for him if there is something beyond the Aeon of Horus he will want it and i think i heard something about a Nameless Aeon beyond the the Aeon of Ma'at but i don't know.

But what exactly are the Aeons from what i heard they are not some power up they are a level of understand the first one the Aeon of Isis was the Aeon of ignorance and the Aeon of Horus was the Aeon of self-realization and self-actualization i don't exactly know what was the Aeon of Osiris but whatever so maybe Aleister want a knowledge not even humans or the magic gods can comprehend.

can Kazuma Kamachi make something like that if so then he is properly Kazuma.exe after all Hahaha.

[Accelerator fan]

It's been 4 days and no one replied to me this must mean my theory is correct because no one is able to counter my logic.

Or i am been ignored.

[OH&S]

^
That's a bit presumptuous. Not many people go out of their way to check the anime subforum for Index (due to lack of anime) in the first place.

Try posting in this LN thread and you're much more likely to get a response.

[Accelerator fan]

Originally Posted by OH&S

^
That's a bit presumptuous. Not many people go out of their way to check the anime subforum for Index (due to lack of anime) in the first place.

Try posting in this LN thread and you're much more likely to get a response.

Sorry if i looked arrogant i will try to post in this thread i just wanted to have someone reply

[LevelSeven]

Spoiler for @entei from another thread:

Originally Posted by entei08

Did you think the military would have to turn off the EMP protection every time before using something that receives signals? Are they only going to turn on the protection when they magically know an EMP is going to happen? Come on now.

no idea, do they?
as far as i know, the devices who send and recieve signals can only be protected partially at best because the reciever needs to be able to still get/send the signals...
as for the choker, that would mean that it would become a much bigger device that has a faraday cage at the places that dont recieve signals, but it wont matter for accel because if the reciever is destroyed everything else on the device is too...

Amata didn't lose because he didn't turn off the choker, period. His first priority was retrieving LO, Accel was no threat to him, he didn't need to kill him right away. But still, he beat him around so much he could have just ended it right there if Index didn't show up. By the time Accel showed up a second time he ran out of battery almost right away. Still, why oh why would he need to use an EMP when he can literally punch him to death or knock him out whenever he wanted and get the most satisfaction out of it? Accel was almost like a kid before his maker, would you need a knife to discipline a kid? Sure it helps, but ultimately unnecessary.

as you said, amata was accels maker, so he should also know that accel is very capable of one-shotting him with a thrown stone at mach-speed,
the EMP would be the safest, fastest and basically the only option that a person with atleast average intellect would use as Plan A

Again, why on earth would Worse need an EMP when she can just show her face and shoot him right away? Accel switched off his reflection WILIINGLY the moment he saw her face, plenty of time to kill him right away if that was what she wanted.

to ensure a successful mission she was send to kill LO, obviously accelerator would stop her,
it is true that her face was a possible option, but what if, if accel simply took LO and flew away? how should he stop him than? or what if, if he deflects all attacks and lets all physical punches slip to the side without allowing her to get injured? or what if, if he makes himself and LO invisible and walks away?

all this are options that could happen too, and the safest way to ensure nothing like that happens is by using a EMP and making accel powerless...

I'm not even going to go into why the big ball of ego that was Kakine did not use an EMP. He was NEVER an efficient person because he didn't need to be.

...there i can agree, true, he would mostlikely not even use the EMP even if he had one...

See in the other instance where people did target the choker specifically, even if they didn't have to use complicated methods, you ignore it because it wasn't EMP. You admitted being fine with them targeting other weaknesses. Just because it is the biggest weakness, doesn't mean every villain NEED to take advantage of it when they have much more interesting methods that works just as well.

only komaba targetted the choker, and shiage tried it but failed,
any other time people ignored that glaring weakness and no, the other methods dont work as good as the EMP, because they give accel time to run away or create a countermeasure, a EMP would make him powerless immediately...

Say if Worse kept the mask on and just EMPed and shot Accel, would it create the same impact compared to the actual scene? No it wouldn't. The story needs its drama, being perfectly logical at every turn does not make a compelling story.

i wont argue against that, i never talked about the impact of a scene, only that enemys look stupid for not using obviously better methods that could even result in a easier victory + no effects on their actual plan...

PS: i got reminded of the other only scenario where the villian actually first used the "choker weakness" and than after it failed he changed to plan b and used the more risky way of fighting,
it was (i think) in OT19 against this guy who copied kihara counter but didnt master it, he was the one group fought against right before they reached the infos about aiwass...

that guy did it right, it wasnt a EMP but he at least used the choker, unfortunatly accel already created a counter agaisnt that particular trick

but this isnt new to storytelling, it happens everywhere where the enemy has a weakness known to the enemys and isnt used...

Not in the sense that it MUST be vulnerable to EMPs.

actually it does...

And the perfect starting point to drive Accel's emotion to its tipping point would be turning off the choker. Well unless you just walk away right after and don't do anything else. Not very villain like if you ask me, more like a prankster.

or a professional doing his job :/
i know that it wouldnt become a story with tension if such methods are used, i never tried to say anything like that...

The choker is a physical reminder of his debts towards the Sisters. It is an important part of his characterization. It strengthens the connection between him and the Sisters. It gave the Board a way of taming him for most of OT. People like Aleister can still cut him out of the network. Sure, for the sake of argument I guess he can completely recover and still feel remorseful, but it would definitely not be as compelling to watch as it is now, even if the fight stayed completely the same. Also it adds excitement as Accel constantly fights against the clock and come up with various methods of upgrading the equipment, showing us he can plan ahead and can do more than just fighting.

OT13 and OT 19 are the only times where the equipment mattered,
the timespan was always a issue against challenging enemys but not that immense,

anyway, i agree, it does add to the excitement, but i do think he would still be the same even if that headshot didnt happen, it was still a nice move of kamachi...

[Natsurin]

Uh... Like I questioned earlier, is it a wise idea to move this pretty light-novel specific discussion to the anime subforum? Wasn't this topic made before the whole Raildex splitting and enforcement of respect from and towards both LN readers and anime viewers?

[entei08]

Spoiler for contains LN spoilers:

Originally Posted by LevelSeven

no idea, do they?
as far as i know, the devices who send and recieve signals can only be protected partially at best because the reciever needs to be able to still get/send the signals...
as for the choker, that would mean that it would become a much bigger device that has a faraday cage at the places that dont recieve signals, but it wont matter for accel because if the reciever is destroyed everything else on the device is too...

If they can make something as fantastical as a little choker that sustains someone who has severe brain damage, even returning some of the most sensitive functions, it would not be too much to ask for to add some anti EMP tech which would not affect its size. Seriously, you are kidding yourself if you think this can't be done in a world which has AC. Some mini EMP protection tech pales in comparison against a mini brain linker.

as you said, amata was accels maker, so he should also know that accel is very capable of one-shotting him with a thrown stone at mach-speed,
the EMP would be the safest, fastest and basically the only option that a person with atleast average intellect would use as Plan A

A person with average intellect and knows Accel's moves will know that at that point he was either going to stand there and tank the attack like an idiot or just charge in like an idiot, basically asking for a free attack, Amata knows this, if he pulls a knife instead of a punch, well that's game over. Throwing rocks or whatever would mean nothing as Amata can always pull out more tech to shut him down, that was the principle of his character, to shut him down. There's no way he would be scared by whatever Accel throws at him, just that for the sake of story he only demonstrated the punches and the wind whistle. I don't think pulling an EMP demonstrates how well he understands Accel's powers at all and is just a cheap way out.

to ensure a successful mission she was send to kill LO, obviously accelerator would stop her,
it is true that her face was a possible option, but what if, if accel simply took LO and flew away? how should he stop him than? or what if, if he deflects all attacks and lets all physical punches slip to the side without allowing her to get injured? or what if, if he makes himself and LO invisible and walks away?

Doesn't matter, the damage was done, all the while he would be losing battery trying to evade. Unless he actively retaliates, Worse can and will hunt him down. It's not like Worse is the one on a time limit. Making Accel powerless will not prove Worst's point. She wants to break him by forcing him to choose between attacking her to protect LO or not hurting another Sister. How is he going to do the former if he doesn't have his powers? It's the choice that makes it cruel. The villains have specific agendas more than just I want him dead right now.

only komaba targetted the choker, and shiage tried it but failed,

And Saraku, and Shiokishi's men, not the Kihara counter guy, but the ones that incapacitated Accel and almost blew him up if not for the guy he helped with his pregnant girlfriend early on.

any other time people ignored that glaring weakness and no, the other methods dont work as good as the EMP, because they give accel time to run away or create a countermeasure, a EMP would make him powerless immediately...

Your faith in EMP is absurd at this point. You may as well tell me an EMP can wreck the Calculate Fortress armor because it has electronics in it.

i wont argue against that, i never talked about the impact of a scene, only that enemys look stupid for not using obviously better methods that could even result in a easier victory + no effects on their actual plan...

Taking a scene out of context of the story and calling it stupid is unworthy of discussion. It's like going back to the old 'why don't they shoot Touma with a gun' argument. Because by that point everything looks stupid anyway.

@Natsurin

Well at this point I'm willing to drop this discussion altogether because I've said all I want and move back to the LN thread, at least I threw up the spoiler tags and there wasn't too much LN focused material.

[LevelSeven]

Spoiler for entei:

Originally Posted by entei08

If they can make something as fantastical as a little choker that sustains someone who has severe brain damage, even returning some of the most sensitive functions, it would not be too much to ask for to add some anti EMP tech which would not affect its size. Seriously, you are kidding yourself if you think this can't be done in a world which has AC. Some mini EMP protection tech pales in comparison against a mini brain linker.

so you simply assume there will be protection and therefore the enemys arent overlooking a big weakness?
well, if you can stretch your suspension of disbelief to that extend im happy for you, unfortunatly i dont :/

A person with average intellect and knows Accel's moves will know that at that point he was either going to stand there and tank the attack like an idiot or just charge in like an idiot, basically asking for a free attack, Amata knows this, if he pulls a knife instead of a punch, well that's game over. Throwing rocks or whatever would mean nothing as Amata can always pull out more tech to shut him down, that was the principle of his character, to shut him down. There's no way he would be scared by whatever Accel throws at him, just that for the sake of story he only demonstrated the punches and the wind whistle. I don't think pulling an EMP demonstrates how well he understands Accel's powers at all and is just a cheap way out.

that is speculation, he is aware of accels powers but as we saw later, he didnt anitipate accel to blow away LO and save her with that,
that means his knowledge is only at that point, he doesnt know everything of accels personality, ergo, he wouldnt know for sure that accel would act like a idiot,
using a EMP would ensure his victory exspecially if he is a "pro" in dirty jobs like killing people :/

Doesn't matter, the damage was done, all the while he would be losing battery trying to evade. Unless he actively retaliates, Worse can and will hunt him down. It's not like Worse is the one on a time limit. Making Accel powerless will not prove Worst's point. She wants to break him by forcing him to choose between attacking her to protect LO or not hurting another Sister. How is he going to do the former if he doesn't have his powers? It's the choice that makes it cruel. The villains have specific agendas more than just I want him dead right now.

but she was doing it on order of ACs higher ups, they wanted a new line of clones which mean tthat LO should die,
worst acting like that was the "only" way to get to this point in their opinion (which isnt the case due to and i repeat a big weakpoint) :/
ergo, she did have a mission to kill LO, accel would protect her, taking accel out and fulfilling the mission was the goal, and taking him out with a EMP would be the best option therefore: the villians look stupid for not using it

And Saraku, and Shiokishi's men, not the Kihara counter guy, but the ones that incapacitated Accel and almost blew him up if not for the guy he helped with his pregnant girlfriend early on.

ah, forgot that ones

Your faith in EMP is absurd at this point. You may as well tell me an EMP can wreck the Calculate Fortress armor because it has electronics in it.

it is as if you say "your faith in guns is absurd, you may as well tell me that only because it kills every human, that it works on superman too",
because that is what you compare my argument to, the choker is weak towards such stuff...

Taking a scene out of context of the story and calling it stupid is unworthy of discussion. It's like going back to the old 'why don't they shoot Touma with a gun' argument. Because by that point everything looks stupid anyway.

for once i agree,
and i dont see how i take things out of context, there was no justification for the villians behavior except for "it wouldnt have made a good story otherwise" which isnt really a good one since that is the case for every questionable decision of any char in any work of fiction...

@Natsu

as entei said, i guess dropping this discussion if the best, i made my points, he made his

[Kuroageha]

A better idea would be to make mods move this thread to the novel subforum.

You talking about LN on the anime subforum will only get to trigger mods hard and make them close another thread again.

[dniv]

Why not just create a new thread for Accelerator on the novel subforum? Seems pretty reasonable. Accelerator hasn't been discussed in a while, but we have the Accel manga and the spin-off manga about him. Would be nice to have a more unified thread for discussion about him...

That aside... ACCELERATOR HAS FRIENDS! *cries*

[Natsurin]

I'd thought about suggesting it, but would it really be necessary for now? It would be best for the subforums to have their own character discussion threads, yes, especially since anime viewers will need theirs in the event of a new season, but until Accelerator actually appears in a new novel then the thread may simply die at birth. Just continuing to discuss in general LN and manga threads may be better overall until various discussions blow up enough to warrant a new thread as opposed to a simple debate like EMPs that'll die out easily.

Basically, do we even have enough material with the Accelerator manga alone until further novel apparitions to discuss on a new thread? I doubt Idol Accelerator should be discussed anywhere but in its thread due to its comical, non-canon nature that cannot be used in serious conversations so that's hardly an option.

[Kuroageha]

Actually we can, see Mahouka novel sub forum's examples.