Ore no Imouto - Episode 5 Discussion / Poll

[Jyang]

Spoiler:

Originally Posted by jeroz

1. kirino "ditching" her otaku friends.
the way i see it it's just superficial lie said to ayase, in order to maintain her image. I don't get how some people kept thinking that she's totally ignoring kuroneko and saori. They both know that kirino tend to want to hide her hobby from other friends.

2. ayase flips too quickly
when idolisation goes into the extreme it can bring devastated consequences when your idol contain traits which you despise. She's not that dumb not to notice the crowd near the big site, the suspicion would had been building up during the conversation as well.

3. ayase breaking up with kirino just because of the hobby
continue on with the idolisation mentality, i see it more as her using their friendship as the wager in order to convince kirino to return to the perfect image ayase had in mind. As shown later in the episode, ayase still values their friendship over the petty detail.

4. the sudden "acceptance" of kirino's hobby from ayase
one of the ways to stop a fight is step in and be the common enemy. From ayase's point of view, which outcome is worse: Step away and let the perverted sis-con taint her idol, or keep in close contact and be kirino's bodyguard? The choice is an obvious one from my perspective. It's not willing to accept the hobby, but more of the tactic of using the friendship as wager is crumbling due to the new development. There are better ways to still convince her without breaking up.

Which brings me to the last point which i'm still confused

5. the "lying" big brother in the title
just what was she referring to in that word? The gentle friendly older brother or the perverted sis-con? The general consensus seem to be the later, that she sees right through the lies. However i think the possibility that the first option can be true is still good. Ayase knew nothing about kyousuke other than what kirino told her so far, "disgusting" and various other derogatory descriptions. It's easy to take those words with a grain of salt, however it's easier to use the "annoying big brother" as the scapegoat for kirino's odd behaviour than to accept that kirino is not what she thought she is.
Even if kyousuke's "confession" is so outrageous, since she knew nothing about him it's still possible from her perspective that those might be true.


Sorry for the long post, just want to clear up some common controversial points in this episode.

1. Agreed. Considering how she acted up until now, it'll be weirder for her not to say something mean to try and maintain her original image. I mean, she already knew how much junior high school girls despise otakus [stated in ep 2 I think], she's just following what "normal" people would say to try to make herself appear as part of "the norm".

2. About idolization, I remembered case of Hirano Aya and her lovers/boyfriends/whatever case, where her fans started raging and going psycho ;D [yea I don't remember properly what happened but merchandises were destroyed D=] I think Ayase may be similar, in that she idolizes Kirino A LOT. She is someone who Ayase considers perfect but suddenly the utter truth crashes down on her, she couldn't cope with it.

3. Maybe later we'll be shown of Ayase's background and maybe we can understand why she's the way she is.

4. Thanks~ I couldn't really understand that part...now I guess it makes more sense xP

5. If you read the novel, it appears a lot different to what is shown in the anime.

Spoiler:

I read the end of volume 2 and the text appears more like a threat than someone who saw through Kyousuke's act. Even Kyousuke stated it was a threat and he doesn't want to see Ayase ever again. The anime made Ayase's voice very gentle and nice, while showing Kyousuke smiling while reading the text. Maybe the anime intended to do this, and will make Ayase nicer or something later on...not too sure.

[ID555]

^On the spoiler (novel's version of Ayase's text to Kyousuke):

That's interesting. But I can see why they did it (turning it around like that)/thought they could get away with it... *winkwink*....... *cries*

[klare]

just when i was predicting a Kyousuke and Ayase pairing after eps 4... it seems Ayase only has Kirino in her eyes

Kuroneko is a more understanding and nice person than she look

[Tsuyoshi]

Originally Posted by klare

just when i was predicting a Kyousuke and Ayase pairing after eps 4... it seems Ayase only has Kirino in her eyes

Kuroneko is a more understanding and nice person than she look

Agreed. Kuroneko is more giving and understanding then the ones Kirino perceives as her true friends. Ayase only has an obsession for Kirino and still seems to want Kirino for herself in the shape of character she imagines her to be. Kuroneko seems more accepting of Kirino as she is.

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by Tsuyoshi

Agreed. Kuroneko is more giving and understanding then the ones Kirino perceives as her true friends. Ayase only has an obsession for Kirino and still seems to want Kirino for herself in the shape of character she imagines her to be. Kuroneko seems more accepting of Kirino as she is.

Maybe it is a reflection of what otaku actually do in real life? They tend to stick together even though their types may slightly differ.

Non-otaku tend to view otaku as anomalies. Ayase probably has an ulterior motive for sticking with Kirino, otherwise she just wants to wean the latter away from "dirty unhealthy hobbies".

There should be a Azunyan cameo somewhere. I would certainly like to see Ayanyan try to voice a tsundere and a kuudere at the same time, then throwing Kuroneko into the potential catfight mix with loli nekomimi cosplay - epic win.

[Tsuyoshi]

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

Maybe it is a reflection of what otaku actually do in real life? They tend to stick together even though their types may slightly differ.

Non-otaku tend to view otaku as anomalies. Ayase probably has an ulterior motive for sticking with Kirino, otherwise she just wants to wean the latter away from "dirty unhealthy hobbies".

Well, I'd be interested to see what her ulterior motive is but if that were the case, she wouldn't have dropped her friendship with Kirino at a moment's notice after seeing her manga. I think she wants her to quite her "unhealthy" hobbies and wants her to become the perfect Kirino she believed she was.

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

There should be a Azunyan cameo somewhere. I would certainly like to see Ayanyan try to voice a tsundere and a kuudere at the same time, then throwing Kuroneko into the potential catfight mix with loli nekomimi cosplay - epic win.

Wishful thinking, my friend

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by Tsuyoshi

Wishful thinking, my friend

Well they have created two opportunities for Ayanyan to meow (Mayoi Neko, Kiss x Sis). There should be MOAR.

Her main specialisation is catgirl-type characters anyway, so I don't see why the scriptwriter cannot create an opportunity for Kirino to cosplay as a catgirl (and get into a catfight with Kuroneko).

Consequently, if Kirino starts to view Manami as an older sister, I am going to laugh*.

* - Note their VAs.

[Hooves]

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

Her main specialisation is catgirl-type characters anyway, so I don't see why the scriptwriter cannot create an opportunity for Kirino to cosplay as a catgirl (and get into a catfight with Kuroneko).

The tension + the cuteness, and sexiness if that fight really happen would just send fans spiraling out of control

[HayashiTakara]

I think people are viewing Ayase completely wrong... she's not obsessed with Kirino, she's just intent on her friend being this idol of perfection and refuse to associate with a person with a "deplorable" hobby. She was quick to give up on Kirino the moment she found out, that's not what you called obsessed, but rather stuck-up or shallow. And she seemed fine with Kyousuke and Kirino going out on a "date" together, if only Kirino didn't act so suspiciously to begin with.

[DJ Trouble]

The more I watch this, the more I just want Kyousuke to get some action.

[risingstar3110]

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

I think people are viewing Ayase completely wrong... she's not obsessed with Kirino, she's just intent on her friend being this idol of perfection and refuse to associate with a person with a "deplorable" hobby. She was quick to give up on Kirino the moment she found out, that's not what you called obsessed, but rather stuck-up or shallow. And she seemed fine with Kyousuke and Kirino going out on a "date" together, if only Kirino didn't act so suspiciously to begin with.

She turned berserk within one minute through... So she probably recognised that it's not a date and something else is going on
And i thought she approached Kirino during the next day to persuade her to give up?

But i agree there's no evidence that she obsess Kirino yet. Kirino is just an object of admiration

PS: the thing i am disappointed most about this episode is, when i saw Kyousuke give Ayase the book, i thought it's a really hard-core porn(and say it's his), just to show that there are different levels of anime/manga fans, and Kirino is still by far from the worst group. That make more sense for me than have him blabbing about his siscon nature

[Hooves]

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

I think people are viewing Ayase completely wrong... she's not obsessed with Kirino, she's just intent on her friend being this idol of perfection and refuse to associate with a person with a "deplorable" hobby. She was quick to give up on Kirino the moment she found out, that's not what you called obsessed, but rather stuck-up or shallow. And she seemed fine with Kyousuke and Kirino going out on a "date" together, if only Kirino didn't act so suspiciously to begin with.

She was playing around with the dating thing

Kirino does get herself in all sorts of trouble, but thats where Kyousuke is there for

[Undertaker]

The episode was execute pretty well base on the Light Novel. The real problem I had was actually from the source material. As some already pointed out, the event was a bit TOO overly exaggerated.

Even reading the novel I can't get over the feeling that Ayase and Kirino are not real friends. [even though they are accordingto story setting] That's mainly because that after all the facts and counter-argument Kyosuke presented as well as Kirino's confession Ayase still refuse to accept Kirino and force Kyosuke to shift majority of blame on himself again.

But that's the small grip I have with the original story, and not really a big deal.

However I do think that the episode would benefit by showing (or mentioning) more of Ayase's family background like the novel did. Because that would clear up a lot of Ayase's seemly character conflicts. Remember, before this episode Ayase is shown to be logical, well-mannered, and understanding. And despise the fact that middle school girls is the number one demographic that despises hardcore otaku and NEET, you would think that Ayase would be more understandable and receptive to Kirino's otaku side.



For the hell of it, here's Ayase's background as reveal in novel during the event:

Spoiler for Ayase's family:

Ayase's father is supposedly a congressman and her mother is PTA president. Her mother is also an activist strongly for censorship on games/anime/manga and would go so far as to ban all non-suitable products. [ie: everything that are not all-age rated, in ESRB term, stuff ijncludes T and M, and movie rating such as PG or PG-13] She also used her position as wife of congressmen and PTA president to lobby for these regulation which was truned down due to lack of facts and research proofs. [a parody based on similar real life activist movement in Japan] And Ayase was steadily been fed by her mom and her expert friends nd reporters with these "twisted" facts and the main reason why Ayase is so freaked out after she found out Kirino's secret.

BTW, the highlight for me in this event was Kirino's declaration that she loves Ayase as mush as eroge. The scene is priceless!!!!

Also, while I would love Kyosuke x Ayase pair, it still trail behind Kyosuke x KuroNeko. KuroNeko is just too awesome.

[Hooves]

Originally Posted by Undertaker

The episode was execute pretty well base on the Light Novel. The real problem I had was actually from the source material. As some already pointed out, the event was a bit TOO overly exaggerated.

Even reading the novel I can't get over the feeling that Ayase and Kirino are not real friends. [even though they are accordingto story setting] That's mainly because that after all the facts and counter-argument Kyosuke presented as well as Kirino's confession Ayase still refuse to accept Kirino and force Kyosuke to shift majority of blame on himself again.

But that's the small grip I have with the original story, and not really a big deal.

However I do think that the episode would benefit by showing (or mentioning) more of Ayase's family background like the novel did. Because that would clear up a lot of Ayase's seemly character conflicts. Remember, before this episode Ayase is shown to be logical, well-mannered, and understanding. And despise the fact that middle school girls is the number one demographic that despises hardcore otaku and NEET, you would think that Ayase would be more understandable and receptive to Kirino's otaku side.



For the hell of it, here's Ayase's background as reveal in novel during the event:

Spoiler for Ayase's family:

Ayase's father is supposedly a congressman and her mother is PTA president. Her mother is also an activist strongly for censorship on games/anime/manga. She also used her position as wife of congressmen and PTA president to lobby for these regulation which was truned down due to lack of facts and research proofs. [a parody based on similar real life activist movement in Japan] And Ayase was steadily been fed by her mom and her expert friends nd reporters with these "twisted" facts and the main reason why Ayase is so freaked out after she found out Kirino's secret.

If they did show Ayase's family background before all this incident started, or atleast some flashbacks, we wouldn't think of her as a yandere that much. So it was basically her family background that influenced her life (as well as the news reporters) to believe that eroge games are just undeniably destroying people's minds. Ayase's reactions sound very reasonable now with the family background place. Thank you very much Undertaker

[Sackett]

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

Indeed Ayase's gravure modeling is hypocritical of her to be judging others. What do teenage boys do with gravure magazines and photobooks? yeah that's right.

I don't recall any gravure modeling in the episode.

Originally Posted by 7thFonon

Actually, they'd have Ika-Musume for Aquafina... And Misaka Mikoto would probably be a mascot for Duracell batteries kinda like how the pink rabbit with the drums was for Energizer.

I can see it now: BriBri! The Copper Top!

[HayashiTakara]

Originally Posted by Sackett

I don't recall any gravure modeling in the episode.



I can see it now: BriBri! The Copper Top!

Rewatch the episode, she mentions that she's taking a break from her Gravure shoot.

[Undertaker]

Originally Posted by Hooves

If they did show Ayase's family background before all this incident started, or atleast some flashbacks, we wouldn't think of her as a yandere that much. So it was basically her family background that influenced her life (as well as the news reporters) to believe that eroge games are just undeniably destroying people's minds. Ayase's reactions sound very reasonable now with the family background place. Thank you very much Undertaker

No prob, those info were revealed through Ayase and Kyosuke's conversation where she stressed that her mom said this and that, and she trusts and quote this reporters and that analyst. While it was Kyosuke's father mentioned that the PTA president's husband is Congressman Aragaki and he was present for the lobbyist meeting because of his work and also knew of the case Ayase was talking about as he had read the case report.

Back to topic. While I love the anime adaption, I do think they cramp too much stuff in 1 episode which causes some confusion or misunderstanding on the plot. For those that read light novel, the adaption is great since the episodes move swiftly and get to the point and we are able to automatically fill in the blanks, but I can see viewers with neither LN or manga knowledge might get confuse when they over-analyse the stuff.



Anyway, while Ayase isn't a yandere she does seem to have some yuri quality in her, I kind of hope the LN might swing that way a bit.....

[Himeji]

Originally Posted by Sackett

I don't recall any gravure modeling in the episode.

She says it herself at the very beginning. Further, that the gravure photoshoot is taking place at the same convention centre where they are selling ero-manga is also a clear hint for the classification of Gravure photos.

Originally Posted by Sackett

I can see it now: BriBri! The Copper Top!

Mikoto's nickname is "Biribiri". Brie is a french cheese
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brie

Mikoto is already not too fond of the nickname, but if you call her *that*, she'll certainly fry you! XD

[Undertaker]

Originally Posted by Mentar

Where is this gravure modeling stuff coming from, which I saw repeated a few times?

All we've seen in pictures and in a small excerpt in a former episode were fashion photo shootings, of the tamest kind. Fully clothed, and with no provocative poses.

I find it exceptionally unlikely that Ayase would do gravure modeling.

Originally Posted by Sackett

I don't recall any gravure modeling in the episode.

It's probably reference from manga and LN. In both light novel and manga Ayase mentioned to Kyosuke that she and Kirino is doing a summer swimsuit shoot before she got all shy and embarrassed.

As for they being 14, that not really a big deal in Japan, most reader models and idols starts out around that age (Hirosue Ryoko, Aragaki Yui, Horikita Maki, Ayase Haruka, Toda Erika, and many members of AKB48 such as Maeda Atsuko to name a few, all got discovered at age 14) and they all have swimsuit shoot fairly soon, therefore it not incorrect calling them gravure models, however they usually have less proactive poses, until the got more mature.

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by Sackett

I don't recall any gravure modeling in the episode.



I can see it now: BriBri! The Copper Top!

Well I supposed the TLs at Mazui made a mistake, instead of Kirino saying "I want to make up with you!", it should be ""I want to make out with you!".

*runs*