Macross Frontier - Episode 15 Discussion / Poll

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Yes, she was OK, though her culture (obedience, prudence) clashes a bit with SMS's on occasion. But she didn't show the kind of brilliance that'd justify her being promoted over everybody's head. She's just another bridge bunny, who's not even relied on for advice, at that.

No, of course not. I wasn´t disputing that, only saying that Cathy has integrated well with the crew.

[Wesley84]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

General heroism, I guess. He saved two songstresses in one battle. It's vaguely possible he now outranks Luca. I don't remember about Michel.

"Heroism" usually gets you some kind of medal or honorific though. If I understand correctly, promotions generally comes with ability and experience, not battlefield prowess. Like, no matter how many men you kill or damsels you save, you'll never become a four star general that way.

Promoting Alto seems to be some way of buying him as was implied by Ozma. Not that he'd actually earned it and they wanted to give him greater responsiblities.

[Anh_Minh]

You're talking about real militaries. In anime militaries, heroism can speed up promotion pretty fast. IIRC, Tylor made ship captain for saving one retired military officer and his two daughters. Or was it granddaughters? And Kira climbed all the way to fleet admiral or something for kicking ass in a MS. It doesn't happen in every anime, but it does happen sometimes.

[Wesley84]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

You're talking about real militaries. In anime militaries, heroism can speed up promotion pretty fast. IIRC, Tylor made ship captain for saving one retired military officer and his two daughters. Or was it granddaughters? And Kira climbed all the way to fleet admiral or something for kicking ass in a MS. It doesn't happen in every anime, but it does happen sometimes.

I don't know who Tylor is, and Kira was promoted probably because he could be trusted with that position. It was politics and sleeping with the boss that gained him that rank. Not that he was actually the best man for the job.

Hikaru earned his promotion, because they were short on experienced pilots and attrition rates were so horrible in the first series. He was the best man for the job because all the other guys were dead. Under normal circumstances, he probably wouldn't have been promoted at that time.

In Alto's case though, there doesn't seem to be a need for a new lt. since Michael is still alive, the SMS hasn't suffered horribly at the hands of the Vajra, and he's a real hothead when you get right down to it.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by Wesley84

I don't know who Tylor is

I myself haven't watched "Irresponsible Captain Taylor".

Bilrer giving Alto a promotion and likely a raise for going Hikaru Ichijyo on Bodol Zer in a Minmay Attack. Other than rescuing Luca, kicking Temjin's ass and killing a red Vajra in his test. Wrecking his Valkyrie time and again would make somebody think twice.

Though the real reason he called Alto is that Bilrer knows more about the Vajra and about the conspiracy in Galaxy.

Besides what is Macross without a pilot and a singer? (Basara is both though)

Even Aegis Focker had the Milky Dolls.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Wesley84

I don't know who Tylor is, and Kira was promoted probably because he could be trusted with that position. It was politics and sleeping with the boss that gained him that rank. Not that he was actually the best man for the job.

Hikaru earned his promotion, because they were short on experienced pilots and attrition rates were so horrible in the first series. He was the best man for the job because all the other guys were dead. Under normal circumstances, he probably wouldn't have been promoted at that time.

In Alto's case though, there doesn't seem to be a need for a new lt. since Michael is still alive, the SMS hasn't suffered horribly at the hands of the Vajra, and he's a real hothead when you get right down to it.

Yeah, but he doesn't actually outrank Michel, does he? Sure, he got a promotion. Probably a pay raise. Did he get more responsibility? A greater opportunity to screw up big time? Or will he just be doing the same job, with only a fancier rank to go with it?

[Wesley84]

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

Though the real reason he called Alto is that Bilrer knows more about the Vajra and about the conspiracy in Galaxy.

I'm not sure what you're saying here. Ozma warned Alto not to say anything, and seemed to imply the reason for the promotion was because Mr. Rogers wanted to pump him for information. Not the other way around. Which, come to think of it, doesn't make sense since he's the boss of their lowly mercenary outfit.

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Yeah, but he doesn't actually outrank Michel, does he? Sure, he got a promotion. Probably a pay raise. Did he get more responsibility? A greater opportunity to screw up big time? Or will he just be doing the same job, with only a fancier rank to go with it?

Since when is a military rank only a way of telling someone how big their paycheck is? Hikaru gets promoted and he's given two rookies he has to watch out for. Alto gets promoted and he gets a pay-raise? Of course pulling rank doesn't seem to happen in the SMS so...

[squaresphere]

In my head the promotion makes sense if you're looking at results. Alto's been crucial in a lot of pitched battles.

He saved Luca : if Luca died there's little doubt the SMS relationship with LAI would have gone south. Also, in saving him he saves all the data that was collected including any recordings made inside the Vajra ship.

Helped save Klan: speaks for itself, help save one of SMS prized veteran squad leaders

Body Guard action with Sheryl: GREAT PR move for SMS, the series of movies that were published could only do wonderful things for the company's reputation. Also, having a good looking guy like Alto being the poster boy could do great things for potential recruiting.

Helped resolve the Galim 4 incident and recon: Even though the fleet and planet got blown up, he was instrumental in bringing down the rebel leader before he could get away. Also, the intel he gathered on the Macross: Global and first recorded images of the Queen are huge chunks of valuable info. Unless stated otherwise by the show, I'm going to also assume he was able to bring back the experimental fold booster as well.

Last defensive/offensive action against the Vajra: Critical component in defending the fleet while rescuing Ranka (can be spun into massively good PR) while "killing" the Queen. Also showed good skill in the first time use of the restricted armored pack and reaction missiles.

Phew, with all those actions it's proof enough for a promotion even with his loss of several fighters.

(Luca's been "shot down" twice but other than recon has that he maybe more of a liability once SMS has to go on more offensive oriented missions.)

[Sinestra]

Best part about this episode was Sheryl's and Ranka's impromptu duet in the hospital directed right at Alto both competing for Alto's affections yet enjoying singing together. Ranka hand moment to make a triangle with Alto in the middle shows how heavily they are playing this love triangle up which is fine by me. I liked the song they sung it was really catchy.

So other good info came out of this episode like Sheryl or (Fairy-9) being a failure. That was quite interesting i think things are going to heat even more from hear on out. The SMS is really the saving the grace of Frontier at the moment even the mysterious voices admitted that they underesitmated the SMS the new Valkyries and the Macross quarter. However they will add them to their calculations from now which means the battles will get tougher.

Damn it give me back my Monster Konig!!! I need more Rabbit-1 kicking ass

[Wesley84]

Originally Posted by squaresphere

In my head the promotion makes sense if you're looking at results. Alto's been crucial in a lot of pitched battles.

He saved Luca : if Luca died there's little doubt the SMS relationship with LAI would have gone south. Also, in saving him he saves all the data that was collected including any recordings made inside the Vajra ship.

Helped save Klan: speaks for itself, help save one of SMS prized veteran squad leaders

Body Guard action with Sheryl: GREAT PR move for SMS, the series of movies that were published could only do wonderful things for the company's reputation. Also, having a good looking guy like Alto being the poster boy could do great things for potential recruiting.

Helped resolve the Galim 4 incident and recon: Even though the fleet and planet got blown up, he was instrumental in bringing down the rebel leader before he could get away. Also, the intel he gathered on the Macross: Global and first recorded images of the Queen are huge chunks of valuable info. Unless stated otherwise by the show, I'm going to also assume he was able to bring back the experimental fold booster as well.

Last defensive/offensive action against the Vajra: Critical component in defending the fleet while rescuing Ranka (can be spun into massively good PR) while "killing" the Queen. Also showed good skill in the first time use of the restricted armored pack and reaction missiles.

Phew, with all those actions it's proof enough for a promotion even with his loss of several fighters.

It's an archiac notion that heroics gets you a promotion. He hasn't demonstrated he's anything other than a good pilot with a raging tofu volcano for a brain.

(Luca's been "shot down" twice but other than recon has that he maybe more of a liability once SMS has to go on more offensive oriented missions.)

Luca's there because LAI wants an inside man to monitor the testing of their equipment. He could responsible for Quarter exploding, and it probably wouldn't matter one way or another beyond telling the developement teams how he managed to do it for future reference.

[squaresphere]

Originally Posted by Wesley84

It's an archiac notion that heroics gets you a promotion. He hasn't demonstrated he's anything other than a good pilot with a raging tofu volcano for a brain.

Quite true, but SMS is still a business and good PR for a mercenary force is critical for getting more business.

Now granted, being a professional highly regimented force is a good way to get business too. Based, on how they used the Quarter I'd say SMS has room for heroics too.

[justinstrife]

Originally Posted by kilroy0097

I really don't understand why they were make Alto 2nd LT and keep Michael at the same rank. Michael has so much more experience than Alto which should add up to at least 1st LT one would think. Seniority over Skill. Also I believe Ozma is in charge of everything flight oriented. He's above Klan Klan as far as ranking goes. If he kicks the bucket then I see Klan Klan being in charge of all flight operations and it's possible that Alto gets put in charge of the Skull Squadron but I would rather see Michael in that role. However it's an anime and so logic doesn't always come into decision making.

Ahh but it's not always about seniority. You need skills, and connections with higher ups to advance past a certain rank. Military protocol doesn't dictate that you HAVE to be promoted just because you've been there longer than someone else. You have to show proof of your abilities, as well as impress certain high ranking officers who show interest in you, and they'll give their recommendations for your rank advancement. This is at least how it goes in the U.S. Military.

[dee32]

Originally Posted by squaresphere

In my head the promotion makes sense if you're looking at results. Alto's been crucial in a lot of pitched battles.

He saved Luca : if Luca died there's little doubt the SMS relationship with LAI would have gone south. Also, in saving him he saves all the data that was collected including any recordings made inside the Vajra ship.

Helped save Klan: speaks for itself, help save one of SMS prized veteran squad leaders

Body Guard action with Sheryl: GREAT PR move for SMS, the series of movies that were published could only do wonderful things for the company's reputation. Also, having a good looking guy like Alto being the poster boy could do great things for potential recruiting.

Helped resolve the Galim 4 incident and recon: Even though the fleet and planet got blown up, he was instrumental in bringing down the rebel leader before he could get away. Also, the intel he gathered on the Macross: Global and first recorded images of the Queen are huge chunks of valuable info. Unless stated otherwise by the show, I'm going to also assume he was able to bring back the experimental fold booster as well.

Last defensive/offensive action against the Vajra: Critical component in defending the fleet while rescuing Ranka (can be spun into massively good PR) while "killing" the Queen. Also showed good skill in the first time use of the restricted armored pack and reaction missiles.

Phew, with all those actions it's proof enough for a promotion even with his loss of several fighters.

(Luca's been "shot down" twice but other than recon has that he maybe more of a liability once SMS has to go on more offensive oriented missions.)

I agree with everything you said but Alto only lost one fighter.

1st fighter- Gilliam's fighter
ep. 2 a lot of structural damage, lost of both arms and canopy
ep. 4 a lot of structural damage and lost of right leg
ep. 7 lost fighter saving Luca

2nd fighter
ep. 9 damage to head
ep. 13 structural damage due to crash landing

[Jimmy C]

Originally Posted by squaresphere

Unless stated otherwise by the show, I'm going to also assume he was able to bring back the experimental fold booster as well.

Unfortunately, he ejected it in the middle of a fierce battlefield. It might have been shot to bits already.

[ani_d]

Originally Posted by zalem

I seems kind of obvious. Michael seemed to think so too when he was holding the pill. Both Sheryl and Michael noted how quickly Sheryl recovered which was conveniently the minute she stopped taking the pill. It was as if the sickness was all an "illusion." That and the fact that Grace is very obviously trying to kill Sheryl....it's not hard to come up to this conclusion.

What's interesting is that, if Michael really thinks that Witchcraft is THAT bad, he probably would've told Sheryl that she's taking poison the moment he found out. I think witchcraft is more like an iffy drug from Galaxy that even Michael has no solid proof that it's bad for the body.

Still, I think he trusts the hospital enough to catch this error since he looked all happy-go-lucky being spoonfed by Klan in that hospital bed. Yes, he must trust that hospital.

[hai_san]

Michel better tells everyone about Grace poisoning Sheryl, while Leon will discovered as traitor by Ozma/Cathy. Lastly Alto job will be revealing the secret of Grace Faction/Organisation/Brera/Galaxy Fleet conspiracy so in end the good guys will pwn the bad guys real hard!

[stray]

Originally Posted by ani_d

What's interesting is that, if Michael really thinks that Witchcraft is THAT bad, he probably would've told Sheryl that she's taking poison the moment he found out. I think witchcraft is more like an iffy drug from Galaxy that even Michael has no solid proof that it's bad for the body.

That's a pretty extreme accusation to make, though, without proof; Sheryl and Grace (you would think) had been together for a while.

Still, I think he trusts the hospital enough to catch this error since he looked all happy-go-lucky being spoonfed by Klan in that hospital bed. Yes, he must trust that hospital.

I don't know if I'd call his look happy-go-lucky

He may not realize Grace is alive, either... and Grace may have just let him be not realizing he was onto her.

[squaresphere]

Well at this point i think Micheal is only suspicious of Grace. I mean if I saw a random medicine pill called "Witchcraft" I'd be kinda suspicious of it too.

[Wesley84]

The pills are Sheryl's "medicine" and if he knows for a fact they aren't medicine, he should say something. Therefore he doesn't know what they are, because not even asking Sheryl if she knew what they were would be irresponsible of him.

[Key Board]

I think it's something custom made for Sheryl

it's probably not on the market list