AnimeSuki Forums

Sazelyt · 2004-10-23, 16:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nine Devil

The only time when he really had to use one of his big jutsu's was against Jiraiya.

It was the only option at that time to save his a... Jiraiya's jutsu was that much powerful. Also knowing even 10 thousand jutsus does not matter if they are not powerful ones. And the only powerful jutsus that we saw were related to his Sharingan which can be taken as he does not know more powerful jutsus. And we don't know if other bloodlines (Hyuuga and Kaguya for instance) can be able to stand against Mangekyou successfully or not. As much as we can assume they cannot we can also assume they can at this point.

Quote:

Itachi doesn't even needs to use Mangekyou to take out 60-70 people nor any jounin or whatever in Konoha.

The people you are talking about were carrying Uchiha blood, they were not just anybody. Being killed without Mangekyou shows as mentioned before how weak the clan exactly is. A genius does never represent the whole community or the clan.

Quote:

Btw Uchiha pawns everybody. They didn't ever said anything about the Hyuuga.

If I'm not mistaken, it was said as Hyuuga being the most powerful clan in Konoha (even though it was said after Uchiha tragedy).

Mezu · 2004-10-23, 16:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by seralin

The people you are talking about were carrying Uchiha blood, they were not just anybody. Being killed without Mangekyou shows as mentioned before how weak the clan exactly is. A genius does never represent the whole community or the clan.

Itachi had Mangekyou sharingan before he killed his clan... so its safe to assume that he used it against the Uchiha clan.

Sazelyt · 2004-10-23, 16:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mezu

Itachi had Mangekyou sharingan before he killed his clan... so its safe to assume that he used it against the Uchiha clan.

We know that he used it against Sasuke. Even before we can assume he did use it, but on how many people? He cannot use these special techniques more than a few times a day. Hence most of the people he killed must be killed by other "weakling-appropriate" techniques or with no technique at all, which does not affect the point of argument at all.

MysticNinjaJay · 2004-10-23, 16:34

In any case Hyuuga is the strongest. Uchiha and the other powerful ones are dea. If we are talking blooline limit Uchiha is. But we can't talk people. We don't know the clan members.

Mezu · 2004-10-23, 16:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by seralin

We know that he used it against Sasuke. Even before we can assume he did use it, but on how many people? He cannot use these special techniques more than a few times a day. Hence most of the people he killed must be killed by other "weakling-appropriate" techniques or with no technique at all, which does not affect the point of argument at all.

we know that if u look into his eyes without sharingan, u die... no matter how many ppl there are. We also know that normal sharingan does not have full resistance against mangekyou. So he could of just looked at people and they would instantly collapse, the possibilites are endless...

Sazelyt · 2004-10-23, 16:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mezu

we know that if u look into his eyes without sharingan, u die... no matter how many ppl there are. We also know that normal sharingan does not have full resistance against mangekyou. So he could of just looked at people and they would instantly collapse, the possibilites are endless...

Still, he needs to activate his Mangekyou each time he uses. And since it is highly unlikely that he gather every Uchiha in one place, he had to use it at least the number of houses times. I don't remember the scenes now, as to how many people are outside, what is their position on the ground, whether there is blood around or not, each situation giving different scenarios on how he killed them. As a final note, we don't know whether the chakra drainage is different or if it is different by how much if he uses on a non-Sharingan-having person instead of a Sharingan-having person. As you said possibilities are countless. Each ratio difference can give a different number of uses, also, as the number of people increases, the amount of Chakra usage should also increase. I'd like to prefer the simplest solution that even he used he used 3-4 times which is not sufficient to kill the whole clan or even the ones that have Sharingan.

kazumaofshellbullet · 2004-10-23, 17:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mezu

we know that if u look into his eyes without sharingan, u die... no matter how many ppl there are. We also know that normal sharingan does not have full resistance against mangekyou. So he could of just looked at people and they would instantly collapse, the possibilites are endless...

For mangekyou sharingan to work, the opponent has to look into Itachi's eyes as was stated by gai in the manga so ppl wouldn't necessarily collapse if they don't look into Itachi's eyes just like how asuma and kurenai were spared during their battle with Itachi.

Kadius · 2004-10-23, 18:36

It's kind of sad that this has yet again came down to byakugan vs sharingan.

I still stand by opinion that Kimimaru's clan (in their prime and still alive) were probably the strongest.

BUT. Are you people forgeting political and power of numbers? The Hyuugas probably outnumber the Uchiha's 50 to one, ATLEAST. The only reason the Uchiha name pulls any power in Konoha is that they're rare birds. Only two left. Where as the Hyuuga are royalty of Konoha and possibly even fire country.

omegastar · 2004-10-23, 20:03

As said in the attack to konoha by the hyuga leader or something like that: "Remember that the hyuga are the strongest in the leaf". And that was after knokcing thru the skies like 8 or more sand nins at the same time.

And also, kakashi admits that the byakugan is stronger than the sharingan. Plus that the sharingan evolved from the byakugan, but that doesn't mean it's better; on the contrary, the byakugan is older and more developed than the sharingan.

Also, why don't you want to accept it? All I see is "Itachi pwns all", while we haven't seen yet something more killer than kaiten or the 64 points (c'mon, neji is not going to be able to do those as a genin, but if he can that means the hyuuga have their own killer jutsu) or "The uchiha rocks", while they were feared but the hyuuga had more political power and preceded them. I think everybody takes sides because of favoritism, instead of real facts.

Nine Devil · 2004-10-23, 22:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ke0

Thus making the clan even weaker they weren't even worth him using his Mangekyou Sharingan moves

Nope, Why in the hell should he use Mangekyou to lets say against 5 people? Not everyone is looking at his eye etc. Uchiha got owned by Itachi. He just pwns.

Yakushi-san · 2004-10-23, 22:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shay

It's all part of his master plan. Again you will see....

If this is a spoiler, I'll kill you!

ddr_2 · 2004-10-23, 23:27

all of the clan are good but wen night comes the nara clan reigns supreme

sinistral · 2004-10-24, 06:57

The topic starter stats as "Uchiha(before wiped out)". I think ALL of Uchiha has Sharingan, only they are undeveloped yet or they didn't know the ways of activating, so many people thinks only 1 or 2 has Sharingan. Like in Haku's fight, Sasuke's Sharingan got activated because he knew he was going to die if he does not do anything fast/better/quick than Haku. As for Hyuuga, little is known about their Byukugan so we can only assume Uchiha is the best clan for now.

As for Nara vs Uchiha, IMO, Uchiha wins.. With Sharingan though.. Sharingan copy jutsu ? Return the Shadow Imitation jutsu back to the Nara clan.. lol :fingers:

naantje · 2004-10-24, 08:09

stfu about kaguya you dont know shit about that clan

Kadius · 2004-10-24, 08:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by sinistral

As for Nara vs Uchiha, IMO, Uchiha wins.. With Sharingan though.. Sharingan copy jutsu ? Return the Shadow Imitation jutsu back to the Nara clan.. lol :fingers:

It's pretty much agreed upon that sharingan has to see all the seals to copy a jitsu. Apparently, the more you you do a technique, the less seals you have to do (Not to say it works for all techniques). Since the Nara's only use one to trigger their's, I'd say no.

srb · 2004-10-24, 08:51

The Uchiha might also have been feared since they were the police force. Their members may not have been the strongest ninjas (but surely some very strong were amongst them) but since they all shared the same occupation they probably had excellent teamwork and were drilled and trained since their youth. For example, Kakashi is surprised that Sasuke can spray fire when he tests Team 7 and says that an ordinary Genin right out of the academy wouldn't have enough chakra, and Sasuke did it for the first time when he was seven.

The Hyuuga aren't "feared" probably because they are more of a nobility than the Uchiha; They maintain enough power to make sure that their clan isn't threatened but they weren't in the same position the Uchiha were, namely hunting down rogue ninjas and keeping the peace.

Since the Hyuuga were still a noble family when the Uchiha were around it's correct to assume that the Hyuuga held a lot more political power, but because of the separation between the branch family and the main family the most experienced ninjas in the branch family hasn't got access to the more advanced techniques. The Uchiha are ordinary ninja and some have a great bonus with having the Sharingan, but the Hyuuga have built their entire clan around the Byakugan and developed their own fighting style and techniques to use in conjunction with it. I don't believe an experienced Gentle Fist user would have problems with facing a Sharingan user in close combat since they are close combat specialists and can probably focus on another part of the body than the eyes when fighting. But let's not turn this into a "Sharingan vs Byakugan" thread, please.

Also, the village of the Hidden Cloud were desperate enough to gain the Byakugan that they risked their new cease-fire and alliance with the Leaf just so that they could kidnap Hinata. During this time the Uchiha were still around, but they didn't try to kidnap a random Sharingan user. Sure, it would have been much more difficult than snatching a four-year old out of bed but the strongest jounin of Hidden Cloud was there so it probably could have been done.

The only one that really yearns for a Sharingan is Orochimaru, whilst the secrets of the Byakugan were deemed so important that a village that's not run by a nutjob would risk war just to get it.

Hyuuga: Political power and strong members overall, but limited by the fact that more advanced techniques are traditionally limited to the main house. All members have Byakugan and use Gentle Fist.

Uchiha: Power due to being a police force as well as a selection of strong members and some with Sharingan, more traditional ninja with genjutsu (both Sharingan genjutsu and ordinary) and ninjutsu, especially from the fire element.

They are powerful in different ways and trying to say which clan would "pwn" the other one is just stupid and there are no facts to base this on since they have never fought. Also, when the Uchiha were still around (~3 years before their destruction) Neji's father would have been around and according to the official fact book he was stronger then than Hinata's father is now - there are no statistics for any Uchiha members other than Sasuke. Therefore we cannot make any estimations about the abilities of the Uchiha members compared to the Hyuuga since both Sasuke and Itachi are exceptional ninja and we do know that the Hyuuga contain both very powerful ninjas as well as weaker ones - it's only logical to assume the same about the Uchiha.

Conclusion: This argument is pointless

DangerousOne · 2004-10-24, 09:57

It was most probably the Uchiha, though right now in konoha clearly Hyugga. The Uchiha did not need that much elites to be the strongest clan, infact I think most of them were chunnin lvls. Think about it, they were like the police force of Konoha..that must have added some "wow" status to their name. If the Uchiha only had 2 ninja's at Kakashi lvl, their already the strongest. I mean if Kakashi/Gai are strongest Jounin in Konoha and very famous already..thats in the whole of Konoha, it must be really amazing to have that in one clan.

Id say they had 5+ Jounins, rest were chunnins. Considering Konoha alone only has very few Jounins (Jounins seem to be really high rank, almost like generals), for a clan to have that much they would have to be very well respected. They policed Naruto world and considering Anbu are made up of chunnins & Jounins, Im guessing they were pretty simmilar in that sense.

I doubt the Hyugga are that amazing either, neji is the most talented Hyugga ever but hes not even chunnin yet. Considering Kakashi became chunnin at 6 & Gai+co at 12 or below, not that amazing.

Sazelyt · 2004-10-24, 11:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by DangerousOne

I doubt the Hyugga are that amazing either, neji is the most talented Hyugga ever but hes not even chunnin yet. Considering Kakashi became chunnin at 6 & Gai+co at 12 or below, not that amazing.

Sasuke could not become a chuunin either at or before age 12.

MysticNinjaJay · 2004-10-24, 12:09

Itachi himself states that Uchiha is the most powerful and feared clan because of sharingan and then he introduces its ture power which is the mangekyo sharingan. Its an unstoppable genjutsu that noone but another mangekyo user can counter and thats the only reason why they are that feared. How can we say who the strongest clan is when we don't eeben know all the clans. Orochimaru probably knows best and he says his favorite is Kaguya because they have an indestructable body that is great for taijutsu. Hyuuga can kill someone in one touch or shut off their all their tenketsu. Aburame have control of chakra insects in which they can do all kinds damage. Even the Nara and Akimichi tribes have a lethal ability. I guess you can really just take your pick. Its all up to the indivisual ninja anyway.

UserName · 2004-10-24, 12:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by srb

The only one that really yearns for a Sharingan is Orochimaru, whilst the secrets of the Byakugan were deemed so important that a village that's not run by a nutjob would risk war just to get it.

And he only yearns for it because...

Spoiler:

About the last guy, Itachi says the Uchiha is the most feared sure wow, said by an .... Uchiha! I can say that the Hyuuga is the strongest becuase HIashi said so.

And there is also a difference between most feared and most powerful as the person I quoted pointed out.

And naanjte we do know about the Kaguya clan...

Spoiler:

2004-10-24, 08:09	Link #74
naantje Annoyance :) Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: where the bitches at -x- Age: 38	stfu about kaguya you dont know shit about that clan __________________ Sig removed by Mod; The image is just way too annoying.

2004-10-23, 16:34	Link #64
MysticNinjaJay Ninja Emperor Join Date: Oct 2004 Age: 38	In any case Hyuuga is the strongest. Uchiha and the other powerful ones are dea. If we are talking blooline limit Uchiha is. But we can't talk people. We don't know the clan members.

2004-10-23, 18:36	Link #68
Kadius Lemon Merchant Join Date: Aug 2004 Age: 39	It's kind of sad that this has yet again came down to byakugan vs sharingan. I still stand by opinion that Kimimaru's clan (in their prime and still alive) were probably the strongest. BUT. Are you people forgeting political and power of numbers? The Hyuugas probably outnumber the Uchiha's 50 to one, ATLEAST. The only reason the Uchiha name pulls any power in Konoha is that they're rare birds. Only two left. Where as the Hyuuga are royalty of Konoha and possibly even fire country.

2004-10-23, 20:03	Link #69
omegastar Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004	As said in the attack to konoha by the hyuga leader or something like that: "Remember that the hyuga are the strongest in the leaf". And that was after knokcing thru the skies like 8 or more sand nins at the same time. And also, kakashi admits that the byakugan is stronger than the sharingan. Plus that the sharingan evolved from the byakugan, but that doesn't mean it's better; on the contrary, the byakugan is older and more developed than the sharingan. Also, why don't you want to accept it? All I see is "Itachi pwns all", while we haven't seen yet something more killer than kaiten or the 64 points (c'mon, neji is not going to be able to do those as a genin, but if he can that means the hyuuga have their own killer jutsu) or "The uchiha rocks", while they were feared but the hyuuga had more political power and preceded them. I think everybody takes sides because of favoritism, instead of real facts.

2004-10-23, 23:27	Link #72
ddr_2 Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Age: 35	all of the clan are good but wen night comes the nara clan reigns supreme

2004-10-24, 06:57	Link #73
sinistral SOS団 Join Date: Oct 2004	The topic starter stats as "Uchiha(before wiped out)". I think ALL of Uchiha has Sharingan, only they are undeveloped yet or they didn't know the ways of activating, so many people thinks only 1 or 2 has Sharingan. Like in Haku's fight, Sasuke's Sharingan got activated because he knew he was going to die if he does not do anything fast/better/quick than Haku. As for Hyuuga, little is known about their Byukugan so we can only assume Uchiha is the best clan for now. As for Nara vs Uchiha, IMO, Uchiha wins.. With Sharingan though.. Sharingan copy jutsu ? Return the Shadow Imitation jutsu back to the Nara clan.. lol :fingers:

2004-10-24, 08:51	Link #76
srb I can see time itself! Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Kingdom of Sweden Age: 37	The Uchiha might also have been feared since they were the police force. Their members may not have been the strongest ninjas (but surely some very strong were amongst them) but since they all shared the same occupation they probably had excellent teamwork and were drilled and trained since their youth. For example, Kakashi is surprised that Sasuke can spray fire when he tests Team 7 and says that an ordinary Genin right out of the academy wouldn't have enough chakra, and Sasuke did it for the first time when he was seven. The Hyuuga aren't "feared" probably because they are more of a nobility than the Uchiha; They maintain enough power to make sure that their clan isn't threatened but they weren't in the same position the Uchiha were, namely hunting down rogue ninjas and keeping the peace. Since the Hyuuga were still a noble family when the Uchiha were around it's correct to assume that the Hyuuga held a lot more political power, but because of the separation between the branch family and the main family the most experienced ninjas in the branch family hasn't got access to the more advanced techniques. The Uchiha are ordinary ninja and some have a great bonus with having the Sharingan, but the Hyuuga have built their entire clan around the Byakugan and developed their own fighting style and techniques to use in conjunction with it. I don't believe an experienced Gentle Fist user would have problems with facing a Sharingan user in close combat since they are close combat specialists and can probably focus on another part of the body than the eyes when fighting. But let's not turn this into a "Sharingan vs Byakugan" thread, please. Also, the village of the Hidden Cloud were desperate enough to gain the Byakugan that they risked their new cease-fire and alliance with the Leaf just so that they could kidnap Hinata. During this time the Uchiha were still around, but they didn't try to kidnap a random Sharingan user. Sure, it would have been much more difficult than snatching a four-year old out of bed but the strongest jounin of Hidden Cloud was there so it probably could have been done. The only one that really yearns for a Sharingan is Orochimaru, whilst the secrets of the Byakugan were deemed so important that a village that's not run by a nutjob would risk war just to get it. Hyuuga: Political power and strong members overall, but limited by the fact that more advanced techniques are traditionally limited to the main house. All members have Byakugan and use Gentle Fist. Uchiha: Power due to being a police force as well as a selection of strong members and some with Sharingan, more traditional ninja with genjutsu (both Sharingan genjutsu and ordinary) and ninjutsu, especially from the fire element. They are powerful in different ways and trying to say which clan would "pwn" the other one is just stupid and there are no facts to base this on since they have never fought. Also, when the Uchiha were still around (~3 years before their destruction) Neji's father would have been around and according to the official fact book he was stronger then than Hinata's father is now - there are no statistics for any Uchiha members other than Sasuke. Therefore we cannot make any estimations about the abilities of the Uchiha members compared to the Hyuuga since both Sasuke and Itachi are exceptional ninja and we do know that the Hyuuga contain both very powerful ninjas as well as weaker ones - it's only logical to assume the same about the Uchiha. Conclusion: This argument is pointless

2004-10-24, 09:57	Link #77
DangerousOne Member Join Date: Oct 2004	It was most probably the Uchiha, though right now in konoha clearly Hyugga. The Uchiha did not need that much elites to be the strongest clan, infact I think most of them were chunnin lvls. Think about it, they were like the police force of Konoha..that must have added some "wow" status to their name. If the Uchiha only had 2 ninja's at Kakashi lvl, their already the strongest. I mean if Kakashi/Gai are strongest Jounin in Konoha and very famous already..thats in the whole of Konoha, it must be really amazing to have that in one clan. Id say they had 5+ Jounins, rest were chunnins. Considering Konoha alone only has very few Jounins (Jounins seem to be really high rank, almost like generals), for a clan to have that much they would have to be very well respected. They policed Naruto world and considering Anbu are made up of chunnins & Jounins, Im guessing they were pretty simmilar in that sense. I doubt the Hyugga are that amazing either, neji is the most talented Hyugga ever but hes not even chunnin yet. Considering Kakashi became chunnin at 6 & Gai+co at 12 or below, not that amazing.

2004-10-24, 12:09	Link #79
MysticNinjaJay Ninja Emperor Join Date: Oct 2004 Age: 38	Itachi himself states that Uchiha is the most powerful and feared clan because of sharingan and then he introduces its ture power which is the mangekyo sharingan. Its an unstoppable genjutsu that noone but another mangekyo user can counter and thats the only reason why they are that feared. How can we say who the strongest clan is when we don't eeben know all the clans. Orochimaru probably knows best and he says his favorite is Kaguya because they have an indestructable body that is great for taijutsu. Hyuuga can kill someone in one touch or shut off their all their tenketsu. Aburame have control of chakra insects in which they can do all kinds damage. Even the Nara and Akimichi tribes have a lethal ability. I guess you can really just take your pick. Its all up to the indivisual ninja anyway.