AnimeSuki Forums

Bflip · 2004-11-05, 10:25

The 3rd used the Death God summon 3 times because he had 3 kage bunshins while he only died once.

I thought it cost 1 soul to seal 1 soul....

Then if Naruto learns the Death God summon, he could kill thousands of people with his mass Kage Bunshin?

Mezu · 2004-11-05, 10:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bflip

The 3rd used the Death God summon 3 times because he had 3 kage bunshins while he only died once.

I thought it cost 1 soul to seal 1 soul....

Then if Naruto learns the Death God summon, he could kill thousands of people with his mass Kage Bunshin?

yes... its not cheating.... your soul gets taken once you are done with the technique... and its not taught to any idiot who would abuse the technique, thats why its safe.

aznstyle · 2004-11-05, 10:37

thats like saying we are not gonna teach terrorists to build bombs, thats why its safe

Animizzle · 2004-11-05, 10:50

Your misunderstanding Bflip,

He didn't cheat, at the moment the Jutsu is activated, sour soul belongs to the shingami already. How many Bunshin you use to rip out souls is beside the point.
The body were merely used as containers for the seal, and immideately died as the deadgod took their "bodies"

And yes, actually Naruto could kill of a thousand people with his Tayuu Kage Bunshin No Jutsu. At least, the way it looks now he could.

Genei Killua · 2004-11-05, 11:31

A more interesting question would be why the hokage's kage bunshin were so resilient to damage while Naruto's poof once they hit the ground.

Ero-Sannin · 2004-11-05, 11:39

well if we consider the shinigami summon, the shinigami arrives with no objective other than collecting the summoners soul for a certain service, so the user gets the shinigamis more souls, shinigami is happy user is happy, thus no problem; since both sides of this jutsu are satisfied, no cheating here. :P

gunners2787 · 2004-11-05, 12:27

wanna know why Naruto's Bunshin "poof" at soon as it got hit... and Hokage's is like a thousand punches and never "poof"...?
Well, all i could say is that.. Hokage is Da Hokage... what do you expect.. most of the Jounin's Bunshin could last long after receiving damages... Zabuza's could take alot of damage.... Naruto could summon alot because he had a massive amount of chakra but... the in the anime they mention that NARUTO cannot control the chakra that means eventhough he could use a skill that require alot of chakra he cannot really control them... For instance.. GamaBunta the Froggy! he could summon it but he couldn't control him. That means that he cannot summon anytime he wants because he cannot control how many amount of chakra is used..

Cheating? Talking about cheating... how come no one tried to attack the 4 freaks which feature in the FREAK SHOW..? in that way, the "Kai" would open and then they could just blast in that KILL THAT SNAKE GUY!..oops! not guy... gay! I mean like there are 3 or 4 Anbus standing outside of the "ARENA" giving comments..
"Wah! Sarutobi is combining 2 jutsus together" They just somehow just stand still and watch Hokage get killed and they say "OMG! Hokage has fallen" they are acting more like commentators then SWATS. It lucky for them they did not say
"Beckham, Beckham got pass the 3 defenders.. he shoots... he curls and scores." ??then i would be like :fingers: and one more thing... how come the MONKEY doesn't move? he could just stand up and lend a hand!! I think he could stand up while holding the god damn Kusanagi No Tsurugi.... or he could just pull the god damn tsurugi and get over with...

kazumaofshellbullet · 2004-11-05, 14:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunners2787

Zabuza's could take alot of damage....

You do know that zabuza didn't make shadow clones and what he made instead was a water clone which could be controlled directly by him. Water clone is also alot more resilient than a shadow clone if you ask me.

Quote:

Naruto could summon alot because he had a massive amount of chakra but... the in the anime they mention that NARUTO cannot control the chakra that means eventhough he could use a skill that require alot of chakra he cannot really control them... For instance.. GamaBunta the Froggy! he could summon it but he couldn't control him. That means that he cannot summon anytime he wants because he cannot control how many amount of chakra is used..

You have got the logic mixed up here. Naruto has lots of chakra but he doesn't full control of the chakra and whenever he does something he wastes like 3x chakra than what is really needed to perform the jutsu. It was said that sakura had the perfect chakra control and she didn't waste any chakra while sasuke wasted just a little bit more chakra than sakura. As for your example of naruto not being able to control gama is a bad one. For one thing gamabunta has a brain and can think for himself and another thing is that gamabunta talks shit to jiraiya and the only person that gamabunta even respected was yondaime so there is no reason to even think that he would even listen to naruto.

Quote:

Cheating? Talking about cheating... how come no one tried to attack the 4 freaks which feature in the FREAK SHOW..? in that way, the "Kai" would open and then they could just blast in that KILL THAT SNAKE GUY!..oops! not guy... gay! I mean like there are 3 or 4 Anbus standing outside of the "ARENA" giving comments..

The barrier that the 4 freaks puts up is suppose to be the strongest and you already saw what happened to the one anbu who tried to go through the barrier(got roasted).

Quote:

how come the MONKEY doesn't move? he could just stand up and lend a hand!! I think he could stand up while holding the god damn Kusanagi No Tsurugi.... or he could just pull the god damn tsurugi and get over with...

Monkey(enma) couldn't move b/c of the jutsu that oro used to bind him. Anime is really bad at showing this in some clips(doesn't show him bound at all) and shows him bound by the snakes in some.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Animizzle

Your misunderstanding Bflip,

He didn't cheat, at the moment the Jutsu is activated, your soul belongs to the shingami already. How many Bunshin you use to rip out souls is beside the point.
The body were merely used as containers for the seal, and immideately died as the deadgod took their "bodies"

And yes, actually Naruto could kill of a thousand people with his Tayuu Kage Bunshin No Jutsu. At least, the way it looks now he could.

I agree with that.

Zek · 2004-11-05, 16:45

Naruto could probably kill all those people with his Kage Bunshins, but he would still die even if he only used the clones to take souls. Kage Bunshin doesn't duplicate your soul. The soul is just the price of calling up the Death God; nobody said it had to be a 1:1 ratio.

Verrik · 2004-11-05, 16:50

Does it really matter if its cheating now?
As far as we know that jutsu died with Sarutobi.

Kayess · 2004-11-05, 17:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bflip

The 3rd used the Death God summon 3 times because he had 3 kage bunshins while he only died once.

Yeah! That cheating bastard.. lets resurrect him to kill him... then ressurrect him again.. and kill him...

That'd make the universe fair.. yep..

Baka.. you can only die once.

FireBorn · 2004-11-05, 17:37

It's not cheating. Think of it this way, if someone did a tajyuu Kage Bunshin, then it would be harder to stop the opponents from moving, no? So it's not like you could just Kage Bunshin everywhere and kill everyone at once - konohamaru would probably be able to pwn the 3rd Hokage if he did it.

daflecta · 2004-11-05, 18:52

when you're a ninja, nothing is cheating, you're just trying to get the job done.

hiko · 2004-11-05, 21:48

Makes you wonder how many Kage Bunshin Yondaime had to use to nab Kyuubi with the Jutsu - i'm willing to bet more than three

.

Lst2touchdasky · 2004-11-05, 22:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by hiko

Makes you wonder how many Kage Bunshin Yondaime had to use to nab Kyuubi with the Jutsu - i'm willing to bet more than three

.

dude kyuubi only has ONE soul

Bflip · 2004-11-05, 23:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kayess

Yeah! That cheating bastard.. lets resurrect him to kill him... then ressurrect him again.. and kill him...

That'd make the universe fair.. yep..

Baka.. you can only die once.

Never said he had to die three times, smart one. I was implying that he should only be able to kill one person instead of 3.

Lst2touchdasky · 2004-11-06, 00:05

Well you have to note two of the characters the 3rd was fighting was already dead, all they had left was their spirits; they were probally alot easier to extract then one that is existing in a living body. Not only that these two didnt actually want to fight, they were forced to,

hiko · 2004-11-06, 00:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lst2touchdasky

dude kyuubi only has ONE soul

Yup, but I'm sure it takes more than one small human to drag that soul out don't you think? That was the point I was trying to make anyway.

Bflip · 2004-11-06, 01:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by hiko

Yup, but I'm sure it takes more than one small human to drag that soul out don't you think? That was the point I was trying to make anyway.

I'm betting that it only takes one 4th Hokage. Lol.

ShinkuSeishin · 2004-11-06, 16:33

Easily explained:

1. The soul is the cost of summoning Shinigami.

2. The souls can be contained into any living thing, which is why the Kyuubi was sealed in Naruto.

3. As for the Kage Bunshin fact...allow me to explain my opinion...

The Kage Bunshin creates actual bodies that are clones to the user. This is also shown when Naruto's clones all have bodily functions during episode 3. Naruto actually DOES have control over his chakra after training with Jiraya, but only to a point. He does not have control when he uses large amounts of chakra. Which means, he can walk on water and such, but he cannot control a large amount to summon Gamabunta.

Back to the Kage Bunshin theory. It is simple. They are Genin level. What I mean by Genin level, I mean, their stamina and endurance is low compared to Naruto. This is because of two factors:
1) The Kyuubi isn't cloned.
2) The chakra isn't distributed well enough to keep it up longer.

The second part of this theory is supported when Naruto goes against Neji and uses his strategy to catch Neji off-guard. After Neji counters, you will notice that one of Naruto's Kage Bunshin DOES NOT get dispersed on contact. This is because this time around, Naruto was careful to make the chakra fully distributed so that Neji could not see which one was real. Neji's attack to the surviving clone was relatively weaker due to the angle of attack, leaving it to survive slightly longer than the other bunshin.

However, there is a bunshin that Naruto uses against Neji when Neji tries to figure out the real Naruto. He hits the clone, thinking that it is Naruto, but because Naruto was a step ahead, he made sure that the clone he made had enough chakra to withstand the attack long enough to cause the illusion that it is the real one.

However, Naruto usually uses the Kage Bunshin carelessly, making them easy to defeat, but a pain to fight since he makes so many.

Sorry for the long post but I had to explain my reasoning and such.

2004-11-05, 10:25	Link #1
Bflip Cirque Dame's Jonin Join Date: Sep 2004	Kage Bunshin + Death God summon = cheating? The 3rd used the Death God summon 3 times because he had 3 kage bunshins while he only died once. I thought it cost 1 soul to seal 1 soul.... Then if Naruto learns the Death God summon, he could kill thousands of people with his mass Kage Bunshin?

2004-11-05, 10:50	Link #4
Animizzle Cool as a Cucumber Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Holland	Your misunderstanding Bflip, He didn't cheat, at the moment the Jutsu is activated, sour soul belongs to the shingami already. How many Bunshin you use to rip out souls is beside the point. The body were merely used as containers for the seal, and immideately died as the deadgod took their "bodies" And yes, actually Naruto could kill of a thousand people with his Tayuu Kage Bunshin No Jutsu. At least, the way it looks now he could. __________________ hm....

2004-11-05, 10:37	Link #3
aznstyle Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2003	thats like saying we are not gonna teach terrorists to build bombs, thats why its safe

2004-11-05, 11:31	Link #5
Genei Killua Mashou no Tenshi Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Cleveland, OH Age: 39	A more interesting question would be why the hokage's kage bunshin were so resilient to damage while Naruto's poof once they hit the ground.

2004-11-05, 11:39	Link #6
Ero-Sannin Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Kuwait Age: 39	well if we consider the shinigami summon, the shinigami arrives with no objective other than collecting the summoners soul for a certain service, so the user gets the shinigamis more souls, shinigami is happy user is happy, thus no problem; since both sides of this jutsu are satisfied, no cheating here. :P

2004-11-05, 12:27	Link #7
gunners2787 Lok-ke Hokage Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Land Of Fire, Konoha Village Age: 37	wanna know why Naruto's Bunshin "poof" at soon as it got hit... and Hokage's is like a thousand punches and never "poof"...? Well, all i could say is that.. Hokage is Da Hokage... what do you expect.. most of the Jounin's Bunshin could last long after receiving damages... Zabuza's could take alot of damage.... Naruto could summon alot because he had a massive amount of chakra but... the in the anime they mention that NARUTO cannot control the chakra that means eventhough he could use a skill that require alot of chakra he cannot really control them... For instance.. GamaBunta the Froggy! he could summon it but he couldn't control him. That means that he cannot summon anytime he wants because he cannot control how many amount of chakra is used.. Cheating? Talking about cheating... how come no one tried to attack the 4 freaks which feature in the FREAK SHOW..? in that way, the "Kai" would open and then they could just blast in that KILL THAT SNAKE GUY!..oops! not guy... gay! I mean like there are 3 or 4 Anbus standing outside of the "ARENA" giving comments.. "Wah! Sarutobi is combining 2 jutsus together" They just somehow just stand still and watch Hokage get killed and they say "OMG! Hokage has fallen" they are acting more like commentators then SWATS. It lucky for them they did not say "Beckham, Beckham got pass the 3 defenders.. he shoots... he curls and scores." ??then i would be like :fingers: and one more thing... how come the MONKEY doesn't move? he could just stand up and lend a hand!! I think he could stand up while holding the god damn Kusanagi No Tsurugi.... or he could just pull the god damn tsurugi and get over with...

2004-11-05, 16:45	Link #9
Zek Eyebrows... Join Date: May 2004 Age: 37	Naruto could probably kill all those people with his Kage Bunshins, but he would still die even if he only used the clones to take souls. Kage Bunshin doesn't duplicate your soul. The soul is just the price of calling up the Death God; nobody said it had to be a 1:1 ratio.

2004-11-05, 16:50	Link #10
Verrik Destroyer of Dreams Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Westport, MA	Does it really matter if its cheating now? As far as we know that jutsu died with Sarutobi.

2004-11-05, 17:37	Link #12
FireBorn Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004	It's not cheating. Think of it this way, if someone did a tajyuu Kage Bunshin, then it would be harder to stop the opponents from moving, no? So it's not like you could just Kage Bunshin everywhere and kill everyone at once - konohamaru would probably be able to pwn the 3rd Hokage if he did it.

2004-11-05, 18:52	Link #13
daflecta (^_^) Join Date: Jul 2004 Age: 41	when you're a ninja, nothing is cheating, you're just trying to get the job done.

2004-11-05, 21:48	Link #14
hiko Member Join Date: Oct 2004	Makes you wonder how many Kage Bunshin Yondaime had to use to nab Kyuubi with the Jutsu - i'm willing to bet more than three .

2004-11-06, 00:05	Link #17
Lst2touchdasky Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Phoenix,AZ Age: 36	Well you have to note two of the characters the 3rd was fighting was already dead, all they had left was their spirits; they were probally alot easier to extract then one that is existing in a living body. Not only that these two didnt actually want to fight, they were forced to,

2004-11-06, 16:33	Link #20
ShinkuSeishin Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2004	Easily explained: 1. The soul is the cost of summoning Shinigami. 2. The souls can be contained into any living thing, which is why the Kyuubi was sealed in Naruto. 3. As for the Kage Bunshin fact...allow me to explain my opinion... The Kage Bunshin creates actual bodies that are clones to the user. This is also shown when Naruto's clones all have bodily functions during episode 3. Naruto actually DOES have control over his chakra after training with Jiraya, but only to a point. He does not have control when he uses large amounts of chakra. Which means, he can walk on water and such, but he cannot control a large amount to summon Gamabunta. Back to the Kage Bunshin theory. It is simple. They are Genin level. What I mean by Genin level, I mean, their stamina and endurance is low compared to Naruto. This is because of two factors: 1) The Kyuubi isn't cloned. 2) The chakra isn't distributed well enough to keep it up longer. The second part of this theory is supported when Naruto goes against Neji and uses his strategy to catch Neji off-guard. After Neji counters, you will notice that one of Naruto's Kage Bunshin DOES NOT get dispersed on contact. This is because this time around, Naruto was careful to make the chakra fully distributed so that Neji could not see which one was real. Neji's attack to the surviving clone was relatively weaker due to the angle of attack, leaving it to survive slightly longer than the other bunshin. However, there is a bunshin that Naruto uses against Neji when Neji tries to figure out the real Naruto. He hits the clone, thinking that it is Naruto, but because Naruto was a step ahead, he made sure that the clone he made had enough chakra to withstand the attack long enough to cause the illusion that it is the real one. However, Naruto usually uses the Kage Bunshin carelessly, making them easy to defeat, but a pain to fight since he makes so many. Sorry for the long post but I had to explain my reasoning and such.