To Aru Majutsu no Index - Character Discussion - Kamijo Touma

[Kenju of the Right]

True, which makes most magicians one dimensional unlike the dark side of the academy city.

how does that make them one-dimensional? They're magicians they use magic
it would be dumb if every single magician just abandoned it just because it dosen't work a bit

it would make magic just look plain weak
using all these counters is actually a better method because it dosen't make magic look like its completely useless and displays the versatility of the magic/magician
and not make it look like IB is completely all-mighty

it isn't the hand that's really beating them, It's mainly Touma

they've been practicing magic all their life and to just abandon it because a guy can negate it with a single right hand would be ridiculous

But that is also their life. They risk their life for their goals and even use magic to accomplish it. They won't throw it away that easily because its the same as their life. But if your getting beaten down by only using it then their should lower their heads and find other means to its end.

but like I said, if they can counter him while still using magic then it's perfectly fine to continue using magic

of course Touma is going to find a way around it, he's the MC
the important thing is that they are trying and giving him difficulty

[Acer]

it isn't the hand that's really beating them, It's mainly Touma

the best example is Touma vs Styil, "swords of fire have failed? suck this Innocentius, stupid esper!".

If it was solely due to the IB, Touma would be dead in the first volume, but we know that in a matter of creativity Kamijou is just below the almighty Hamazura. let's not forget that this was the first meeting of Touma with a magician, and this magician did not even know there was a power like that, different from Mikoto who fought with him for a month and never got anything.

[tsunade666]

Originally Posted by Kenju of the Right

it isn't the hand that's really beating them, It's mainly Touma

I didn't say that IB is beating them. Its the other way around. The magicians can't beat it but they still try to persist on their ways. Though it only ended up with them getting beaten in the end. I did say that IB is a shield and Touma is a good meat shield while Accelerator is a bomb that you drop onto your opponents. And Shiage is a dice. You really can't tell if he will win or not.

[LevelSeven]

how does that make them one-dimensional? They're magicians they use magic
it would be dumb if every single magician just abandoned it just because it dosen't work a bit

it would make magic just look plain weak
using all these counters is actually a better method because it dosen't make magic look like its completely useless and displays the versatility of the magic/magician
and not make it look like IB is completely all-mighty

it isn't the hand that's really beating them, It's mainly Touma

they've been practicing magic all their life and to just abandon it because a guy can negate it with a single right hand would be ridiculous

is it to difficult to use a fu**ing gun??,
the only thing they need from the science side is a normal gun, Vento wanted to destroy AC/IB/Index right?,
she heard about IB right? she isnt almighty, she is aware of this fact, than why not using the PERFECT CONTER for the annoying right hand??,
if she was curious about his power she could attack him several times and than SHOT!! after killing touma she could start to work on her other missions, like killing Index destroying AC and so on.....

[FallenHero]

Originally Posted by LevelSeven

is it to difficult to use a fu**ing gun??,
the only thing they need from the science side is a normal gun, Vento wanted to destroy AC/IB/Index right?,
she heard about IB right? she isnt almighty, she is aware of this fact, than why not using the PERFECT CONTER for the annoying right hand??,
if she was curious about his power she could attack him several times and than SHOT!! after killing touma she could start to work on her other missions, like killing Index destroying AC and so on.....

Setting aside how out of character it would be for Vento to wield a gun, there is more to using one than just pointing at a target and shooting. Given how she has never held a gun in her life and the fact Touma has already proven that using firearms against him doesn't automatically allow you to defeat him, it wouldn't really do her much good.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Why do people assume that Kamijou can't handle a gun?

Could anyone point out to me how many times he got shot by Hound Dog and Skill Out? Because clearly you all think he would just charge into a firing squad right.

[Acer]

Originally Posted by LevelSeven

is it to difficult to use a fu**ing gun??,
the only thing they need from the science side is a normal gun, Vento wanted to destroy AC/IB/Index right?,
she heard about IB right? she isnt almighty, she is aware of this fact, than why not using the PERFECT CONTER for the annoying right hand??,
if she was curious about his power she could attack him several times and than SHOT!! after killing touma she could start to work on her other missions, like killing Index destroying AC and so on.....

Volume 13 - Touma managed to escape for a while from a professional armed group while carrying the Last Order , he won the team ? no, but managed to survive long enough and if he was not with the Last Order could have gone further . this volume he suffered 0 damage with firearms .

Volume 13.5 - Kamijou dealt with the Skill -Outs using sneaky tricks ( catching them off guard ) , disarming they, detail that it showed that this volume can be a hero even without IB .

Volume 17 - I really need to remember how he handled an armed terrorist?

NT vol 3 - have the mercenaries and the case of Saronia , he could easily handle the first shot of the bitch , the problem was the same shaky ground on which they were fighting .

well, the issue is that Touma has already proven that it is not a novice with guns , knives , bats , do not just use something that can not be denied by the IB that can beat him, if so he would have been defeated by the swords of wind of Marian , which could not be denied and were far more destructive than conventional weapons .

[FallenHero]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Why do people assume that Kamijou can't handle a gun?

I think it's because they focus solely on Imagine Breaker itself. Since Imagine Breaker cannot defend against firearms, they assume Touma has no countermeasures or common sense that will allow him to survive an encounter.

Originally Posted by Acer

Volume 17 - I really need to remember how he handled an armed terrorist?

Apply boiling coffee directly to forehead.

[LevelSeven]

?

imagine touma negates all attacks and comes closer to his enemy , than gun out of the pocket, pointing against touma THAN shot! (without talking minutes over minutes),

result: touma= hole in his skull
enemy= won without a scratch in 1 minute

isnt so unrealistic, and again why not using a gun? (right gaint plot hole, have forgotten )

[Chaos2Frozen]

Touma ducked at the last moment, the shot gazed his shoulder but otherwise leave him unharmed, he closed the distance and knocked the gun out of the hand. This isn't so unrealistic either if you consider his response time with electricity.


You probably should read up the meaning of 'plothole', not using a gun is not a plothole because they never had guns. Arguing something that never happened is pointless, because if you like I could also set up a scenario where I drop a piano on Touma to kill him instantly, hows that any different? Is it a plothole too because I can write up that scenario?

[SmokinFerret88]

If you go by that logic, a lot of characters would have died that way too; like Hamazura for instance.

If possessing a firearm was that easy, then maybe that would have been the case. But its not, getting a gun isn't as easy as you make it sound. There is such a thing as gun regulation and unlike the US, it isn't as easy to get one in other countries. In fact, in some countries, you can't get one at all; lookin at you Japan.

But let me ask you this; if you had abilities like some of the mages in this series have; would you keep a gun on you or would you rely on the powers you have? Personally, I would rely on my powers because, in my eyes, powers are better than bullets any day of the week.

Also take into account that most people that end up as Touma's enemy don't have prior knowledge of his ability to negate magic and all things supernatural. They can't be pulling a gun out of the blue since, in most cases, the magician didn't have a reason to. Why should they when most of their opponents have things that can easily overpower a useless firearm in the form of a spell or something of the like? Keeping it around 'just in case that magic negating guy shows up' seems to me like a stupid idea to me.

Heck, most of the incidents that Touma gets involved in are plans that are already in progress. Since most antagonists don't expect someone like him to show up, they can't prepare something like that in the one out of a billion chance that this one person who can negate magic does in fact show up.

[FallenHero]

Originally Posted by LevelSeven

?

imagine touma negates all attacks and comes closer to his enemy , than gun out of the pocket, pointing against touma THAN shot! (without talking minutes over minutes),

result: touma= hole in his skull
enemy= won without a scratch in 1 minute

isnt so unrealistic, and again why not using a gun? (right gaint plot hole, have forgotten )

I've noticed you have provided no counterarguments against any of the previous responses to your last post. In fact, this post is almost a reiteration of your previous post. Your scenario proves nothing. Let me ask you this; why do you assume that's all it'll take to kill Touma? As mentioned before, he has already survived having firearms used against him.

[tsunade666]

Using only firearm against Touma is pretty narrow minded. It might gave you advantage but Touma won't just stand there for you to hit him. He is used to fighting thugs or esper in back alley street. He should be used to it or at least know about it.

But its also not wise move to only rely on your magic against someone that can cancel it. The likes of Tsuchimikado proves that its much easier to fight Touma with your fist than your magical stick -_-

[SmokinFerret88]

Yeah, but that's a result of him being unable to use magic anymore; being a magic-esper hybrid. When you're trump-card can ultimately end up killing you, one tends to go for an alternative method of dealing with things.

Plus it kinda helps that Motoharu knows Touma on a personal level; knows that magic won't work, and is a capable fighter in his own right. Therefore, unlike most magicians, he has the greatest advantage over them all since he's not reliant on his magic and can take and give out a healthy dose of whoop-ass.

Plus, lets face it, it's Motoharu we're talking about. He's a spy for both magic and science side and a bad-ass to boot.

[Ilidsor]

There's something I've always wondered about when people say magicians should be using guns against Touma. Why would you learn an entirely new skill set just because your current enemy can block the attack with his hand? I mean if you had a gun and were fighting someone with a bullet proof shield or something (think Captain America) would you throw down your gun and try to use some sort of weapon that bullet proof shields can't block (okay maybe this isn't the best analogy), which you have no training with and barely know how to use, or would you try to shoot somewhere not protected by the shield? Because that's what the magicians are doing. They try to use their magic in a way that Touma can't block. Which usually works and he either has to out think them or get help.

Sorry if somebody said something like this already. I've only been skimming this thread.

[Salt]

Just got a crazy idea after reading Warhammer 40k's lore...

Could our illustrious main character be a "blank" ... It hard not to draw a parallel between 40k's Warp powered psykers and To Aru's espers/magicians. It even hard to ignore the parallel between the blanks of 40k that neutralise all psychic power within their vicinity due to their lack of Warp presence/signature and their "soullessness" and someone like Touma who kind of does the same thing.

Touma could even be a synthetic being created solely to content whatever it is that's in his arm.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Salt

Just got a crazy idea after reading Warhammer 40k's lore...

Could our illustrious main character be a "blank" ... It hard not to draw a parallel between 40k's Warp powered psykers and To Aru's espers/magicians. It even hard to ignore the parallel between the blanks of 40k that neutralise all psychic power within their vicinity due to their lack of Warp presence/signature and their "soullessness" and someone like Touma who kind of does the same thing.

Touma could even be a synthetic being created solely to content whatever it is that's in his arm.

I'm assuming "Blank" is a literal meaning? I don't follow Warhammer

But if so rather than a "Blank", it's more like he's a "Blueprint" going by the latest info (ie. LN)

[Salt]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

I'm assuming "Blank" is a literal meaning? I don't follow Warhammer

But if so rather than a "Blank", it's more like he's a "Blueprint" going by the latest info (ie. LN)

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/B...sychic)#Blanks

[Draco Spirit]

Don't Blanks typically freak people out tho?

[LevelSeven]

There's something I've always wondered about when people say magicians should be using guns against Touma. Why would you learn an entirely new skill set just because your current enemy can block the attack with his hand? I mean if you had a gun and were fighting someone with a bullet proof shield or something (think Captain America) would you throw down your gun and try to use some sort of weapon that bullet proof shields can't block (okay maybe this isn't the best analogy), which you have no training with and barely know how to use, or would you try to shoot somewhere not protected by the shield? Because that's what the magicians are doing. They try to use their magic in a way that Touma can't block. Which usually works and he either has to out think them or get help.

it isnt a new skill, to firing a gun someone will not need intelligence, even a child in our world can do it,

i havent said that touma would definatly loose if they use a gun BUT the fact that they havent used one against him (except levinia, and this was so old) a normal mordern gun,

touma havent shown that he defeats his enemys without a punch, and for that he needs to get closer to them,
the best/worst example is Gremlin, they needed contermeasures for IB, why not using a gun??, this russia mage traiend her legs because of touma right? why not using a simple gun if they KNEW that he will try to stop them??,

and for people who works inside the 'darkest' places of the world it isnt really hard to gain one or twenty modern guns right??