Another - Episode 7 Discussion / Poll

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by Ledgem

So now we're to make the jump that something out of nowhere pushed a man's hand? Maybe it's what was intended, but the way it played it, I don't think that was the intention. He clearly intended to kill himself, and as I wrote before (and as Dengar mentioned), it's natural for a person to have difficulty committing such grave self-injury. It's not like he paused, calmed down, and then was surprised when the knife came plunging at his throat. It was clear that he was steeling his nerves, and he was expecting it. He was in full control the entire time.

I was thinking more of a mental manipulation in this case. We are interpreting that scene completely differently, to me it's clear he was trying to "resist", I think his gestures would have looked quite different if he had been merely steeling himself (something more like a back and forth motion and with no random air slicing, he shouldn't have looked that freaked out either).

Chibiki -the "expert"- himself agrees with this interpretation, and I see nothing that contradicts it. Pretty much everything we know about the phenomenon comes from him, so if he says it's possible, then it's possible until proven otherwise. There's no reason to nitpick as of now.

[Dengar]

Originally Posted by totoum

That's why you keep getting into this conversation,if it's something more than just luck and it's not supernatural,how do you explain those deaths?

Coincidence, obviously.

As for the above comment, where, oh, where did Chibiki say "That guy obviously did not want to kill himself or his mother."?

The fact that it was caused by the calamity does in no way rule out that the murder-suicide was completely voluntary.

[totoum]

Originally Posted by Dengar

Coincidence, obviously.

You say that,but that comment was for Ledgem who,if I understand him correctly,says he thinks it isn't,that's why I asked him that question.

[Dengar]

Fair enough, still, the question was "what if not supernatural?", I'm just giving another option.

[Lord of Fire]

If you ask me, all deaths can be explained by 'earthly' means, we simply don't know everything that may help to explain these deaths better.

The first two deaths (the umbrella and the elevator) may be a bit hard to swallow, but I don't think you can rule them out as being nothing more than freak accidents, either.

[Dengar]

That's how the calamity works if you ask me. It just makes unlikely things "happen".

[Lord of Fire]

Originally Posted by Dengar

That's how the calamity works if you ask me. It just makes unlikely things "happen".

I think the whole 'calamity' is just some unfortunate circumstances and a cop-out for people to fill in the blanks without having to do actual research. But until all facts surrounding these deaths have been found, I guess pretty much any explanation will do.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by Dengar

Coincidence, obviously.

As for the above comment, where, oh, where did Chibiki say "That guy obviously did not want to kill himself or his mother."?

The fact that it was caused by the calamity does in no way rule out that the murder-suicide was completely voluntary.

Chibiki: Why would he make such extreme decisions? (i.e killing his mother and then himself in front of his class)
Kouichi: You think this was a result of the phenomenon?
Chibiki: Yes.
Mei: So he was drawn into death by otherwise unlikely means?
Chibiki: Could there be any other explanation?

That's as clear as it gets.

Anyway, I don't get why you guys are so reluctant to accept a supernatural explanation when we already know there is a goddamn dead person walking around. It was reasonable to have doubts at the beginning of the series (I was among those who believed there might have been nothing supernatural going on) but the past few episodes should have cleared them away.

[Stiletto]

Hahaha, that bloody scene was so over the top I was tickled by it. Especially the expressions.

This episode was okay. Still confusing and none of it making any particular sense to me, so I unfortunately can't bring myself to guesswork anything atm. Poor me.

Ah, but Mei is really crawling into my heart.~

[totoum]

Originally Posted by Kanon

Anyway, I don't get why you guys are so reluctant to accept a supernatural explanation

The more I think about it the more I realize this isn't really because people disagree on what's happening but rather people just don't interpret the term "supernatural" the same way.

[Arya]

Originally Posted by totoum

The more I think about it the more I realize this isn't really because people disagree on what's happening but rather people just don't interpret the term "supernatural" the same way.

Probably. To me if it were a ghost holding the umbrella or a mere *unlucky* event it is the same. I count it as supernatural. Then I'd prefer the latter, because it is always better to not give much details in such a things. Or as analogy, I prefer when the presence of aliens are hinted instead to show me the full body, because each time they look dumbs.
To me it is like Damien in the Omen, they talked about it too, you knew it was his doing, but you never saw him doing. But in this case it is unwilling, or so they told us. So, for the teacher I like to think he became a paranoid instead of a physical force compels him to do it. But it was the another who made him a paranoid. It could be the teacher felt his presence an his slicing the air with the knife was a futile way to keep him away. In the flashback of the early morning he looked determined to do what he did. But the scene looks surely ambiguous. I bet they did it on purpose. As always.
It's like the another bends the laws of nature to his will. But always inside the field of believable. And it is not unavoidable. In this way it would explain the glass broken by the wind. But this would imply that if you avoid your death you skip your turn, and I don't guess that. Plus is to far away as hypothesis.

Another way to see it is like the Another were a sort of jinx. When you got his attention you are fracked. And for a jinx or bad luck you have some *spells* you could do, like touching iron or throwing salt grains over your shoulders, keeping little horns with you. Here they have found this spell, but it is not enough, no more.


Anyways for the first three victims we got evidence that they broke the rule, but we didn't with the teacher. But for now looking at the extravagance of his death I surely'd count it as a victim of the calamity.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by totoum

The more I think about it the more I realize this isn't really because people disagree on what's happening but rather people just don't interpret the term "supernatural" the same way.

Hmm, I guess you're right. I don't think it matters all that much how the calamity kills anyway, and I doubt it'll ever be explained. What matters is that it kills.

I just personally have a hard time counting the teacher and his mother's deaths as victims of the calamity if the teacher's horrifying actions were 100% voluntary. That would mean their deaths were unintended and it would make these two closer to unfortunate collaterals in my eyes.

[LKK]

One thing to remember in this discussion of what is and is not supernatural is that the Japanese are more likely to consider things to be supernatural in origin than most Westerners. They tend to be more superstitious than Westerners as well. Yes, that's a broad sweeping generalization about a large group of people, but anime often uses broad sweeping generalizations to fill in the explanatory gaps in its logic. Keeping this generalization in mind, it's easy to understand why the librarian attributed the teacher's death to the phenomenon so quickly and absolutely.

[Dengar]

My definition is more like "If a force is causing events to happen by influencing probabilities to cause deaths", then the the event "influencing probabilities" is supernatural, whereas the "deaths" are not.

Also, it's not the Another that's doing these things. I thought that had already been established.

[Leo_Otaku]

Originally Posted by justsomeguy

Was the music during the suicide scene really necessary? It was overdramatic and made the situation seem humorous, which it should obviously not be!

About the year where the deaths stopped halfway and no deceased was identified, maybe one of the deaths was the deceased "re-dying?"

That facemelting was one hell of a gruesome dream.

Oh I was laughing XD It was funny and shocking at the same time.

I too really liked the melting scenes, would love to see the blu-ray of that. Too bad Umineko could not have gotten this kind of treatment.....Ange-burgers....

[sa547]

Who is Dead?