AnimeSuki Forums

Keroko · 2011-12-13, 07:51

don't recall what the movie used as the Japanese term, but yeah the series uses space-time.

00-Raiser · 2011-12-13, 10:32

Just because it's called the Time-Space Administration Bureau doesn't mean they litterally administer time and space. Indeed, we know for a fact that they don't run the entire universe and there are plenty of worlds that are independent of them.

Keroko · 2011-12-13, 11:13

Yes, hence the "might give a more direct meaning."

Sunder the Gold · 2011-12-13, 11:58

Space-time refers to the relativity concept that time and space are related, such that traveling through space affects how you travel through time. Gravity doesn't actually exist, it's just that the mass of large bodies like planets distort space and time so that traveling past one in a straight line leads you around it's curve.

Or so it's explained in the Extra Credits episode on "technobable" and what those fancy sounding science words actually mean. (EC is a web-based video series found at Penny Arcade's website, in their PATV section. Check it out. )

So, for people who are using instellar spaceships, they'd be experiencing a lot of distorted time because of the speeds and distances trough which they travel space. If it werent for subspace, which in fact ALSO relates to time space in allowing them to cross lots of space in what seems like very little time.

Indeed, a jump may even seem like less time than it really is, as far as the rest of the universe is concerned.

Kuze · 2011-12-13, 14:48

As I prefer to think of it, the TSAB's name refers not so much to a position of ruler ship as it does to the whole "administer the operations necessary to keep reality and time, and all related therein [culture, society, economy, political structure, life, etc] as we know it from collapsing"

Or something.

Rising Dragon · 2011-12-13, 15:02

The subs for the Nanoha movie just called them the Dimensional Administration Bureau.

Kuze · 2011-12-13, 15:18

Alternately then, just keep the current dimension from going all haywire on its inhabitants, try to administer the peace.

Keroko · 2011-12-13, 16:09

The word the series uses, jikuu, should mean space time. But if the movie leaves out that word, we're left with 'administration bureau.'

00-Raiser · 2011-12-13, 16:32

I always felt it was kinda egotistical. "Yeah, we're so important that we look out for all of time and space!"

Sunder the Gold · 2011-12-13, 17:19

On that note, something they could add to the series, pre or post StrikerS, is a planet with magical science which has not entered into the TSAB's federation, because their leaders are vigorously collecting overtechnology and Lost Logia and continuing to develop mass-based weaponry, artificial mages, combat cyborgs, war robots... The works.

They have a clear edge over the TSAB's military, but since they're only one planet or a small empire, they can't match the manpower and collecting Mage-power that the TSAB's united worlds can bring to bear. So, cold war scenario.

Kuze · 2011-12-13, 17:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

I always felt it was kinda egotistical. "Yeah, we're so important that we look out for all of time and space!"

Well, not to touch on the hubris of it or what not, but really, someone has to do it.

Plus considering that the Bureau formed right after the second consecutive civilization breaking war was winding down, with so many LL being left to whoever found them, it's not entirely a bad idea to ask for all the good publicity that they can possibly get. Even in the choice of their name.

Now on the other hand, the only slightly negative opinion that has ever been espoused about ye olden Belkan kings was Ix, and SSX went to great lengths to try and portray that as deeply misinformed. It wouldn't even touch whether she, and really, everyone else in that time had actually and truly screwed the hell up, irregardless of how they were as people.

So, I don't know. Publicity may not matter all that much, depending how much thought Tsuzuki put in it.

Tiresias · 2011-12-13, 18:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuze

Now on the other hand, the only slightly negative opinion that has ever been espoused about ye olden Belkan kings was Ix, and SSX went to great lengths to try and portray that as deeply misinformed. It wouldn't even touch whether she, and really, everyone else in that time had actually and truly screwed the hell up, irregardless of how they were as people.

Unless you pull an alternate character interpretation on Olivia.

Think about it. The Saint Church revered Olivia as the Saint who "put an end to the war" but we never know how. And then there's the fact that she was fighting the "Unification" War, so her attempt to "end the war" can be interpreted as "ending it by reclaiming her birthright under her single rule." And then there's the fact that the war ended after her death, something which can be interpreted as "the death of the last despot ended any claimants to the Belkan Remnants, thus erasing any reason to continue the war (under that casus belli)."

...Hey, if we can have alternate views on historical people, I don't see why we can't do the same on fictional ones

Blame Tsuzuki for giving so little insight on the whole debacle

Kuze · 2011-12-13, 18:50

We know that Claus continued to fight after Olivie's death, but again, who was he fighting anyways?

Of course, we could just go with the unstated but plausible answer:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Sandlin

War ends at the moment when peace permanently wins out. Not when the articles of surrender are signed or the last shot is fired, but when the last shout of a sidewalk battle between children fades, when the next generation starts to wonder whether the whole thing ever really happened. They ended as war always ends -- by trailing off into nothingness and doubt. Its final monument has never been seen by mortal eyes. It's a phantom image at the edge of a rumor; an unmarked grave in the depths of the South American jungle where a weird and decrepit old man, half forgotten by the world, at last entered the lists of oblivion.

Would it reinforce why Claus died so miserably? Sure, but I am skeptical if Tsuzuki has actually thought about that part of a legacy.

Or if he's ever read into the enormous hissy opinions fight between historians over every notable war, conflict, bushfire, and slapping that ever was, and realize that academics can get really worked up about their subject.

Sunder the Gold · 2011-12-13, 23:59

Tiresias, your post suggests to me that you're unaware that Olivie inherited a several centuries old war when she was made the last surviving member of the Kaiser bloodline, and how before that point she was given over to the Hegemons of Shutra as a political hostage to cement loyalty.

For all we know, she fought against her own Belkan countrymen to stop the Reunification War. Maybe she never even helmed the Cradle.

Rising Dragon · 2011-12-14, 00:34

Given that Klaus and Olivie were fighting to see who'd take control of the Cradle, I doubt Olivie didn't take its helm.

Tiresias · 2011-12-14, 01:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold

For all we know, she fought against her own Belkan countrymen to stop the Reunification War. Maybe she never even helmed the Cradle.

Thing is, we know too little about the Reunification War. If not by stopping the war by reuniting the lost Belkan territories under her rule, what kind of alternate plan did she have to "stop" the war? Killing other pretender of the throne? And then what? What kind of government would take control of those territories?

Not to mention that the end of war was marked by her death. Peace, or at least a cease-fire, was only made possible by her no longer breathing.

Alternately, it is said that she sacrificed herself to end the war. Here's the question then: what kind of death sacrifice made by a head of state would end a war? Ramming her ship to the Death Star?

itanshi1 · 2011-12-14, 01:12

Such delicious conspiracies.

But to refer to top of page, the trick is not 'time space', but 'dimensional travel'

Keroko · 2011-12-14, 02:31

The bureau itself is called the "jikuu kanri kyoku" or "spacetime administration bureau."

When traveling however, the term used is "jigen" which means "dimension." The weird multi-color universe ships travel between is called Jigen kūkan for example, which means dimensional space, and the spell Vita used is called jigen tensou, dimensional transfer.

It should be noted that the TSAB navy also uses the term dimension. Jigenkōkō Butai.

FRS · 2011-12-14, 06:30

I am "late to the party", so the dimensional part of the TSAB name has been cleared and the TSAB is present across several dimension ?

Sunder the Gold · 2011-12-14, 07:03

There has been no such agreement.

2011-12-13, 10:32	Link #42
00-Raiser Burst Mode Author Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Windsor, Ontario Age: 37	Just because it's called the Time-Space Administration Bureau doesn't mean they litterally administer time and space. Indeed, we know for a fact that they don't run the entire universe and there are plenty of worlds that are independent of them. __________________

2011-12-13, 15:02	Link #46
Rising Dragon Goat Herder Author Join Date: Jun 2008 Age: 36	The subs for the Nanoha movie just called them the Dimensional Administration Bureau. __________________

2011-12-13, 16:32	Link #49
00-Raiser Burst Mode Author Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Windsor, Ontario Age: 37	I always felt it was kinda egotistical. "Yeah, we're so important that we look out for all of time and space!" __________________

2011-12-14, 00:34	Link #55
Rising Dragon Goat Herder Author Join Date: Jun 2008 Age: 36	Given that Klaus and Olivie were fighting to see who'd take control of the Cradle, I doubt Olivie didn't take its helm. __________________

2011-12-14, 01:12	Link #57
itanshi1 Writer, Jester, MtG nerd Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Nanoha Used Car Dealership. RERISE!	Such delicious conspiracies. But to refer to top of page, the trick is not 'time space', but 'dimensional travel' __________________ For those that belittle their favorite characters, complain about pairings, complain about oversexed images. Stop, thank you. Fear Anxiety Doubt is but a fad. The life of a fad depends entirely on the willingness to support it. Difficulty is a choice. Determination is a path. Your next great idea after your destination is the true goal.

2011-12-13, 07:51	Link #41
Keroko Adeptus Animus Author Join Date: Jan 2007 Age: 36	don't recall what the movie used as the Japanese term, but yeah the series uses space-time.

2011-12-13, 11:13	Link #43
Keroko Adeptus Animus Author Join Date: Jan 2007 Age: 36	Yes, hence the "might give a more direct meaning."

2011-12-13, 11:58	Link #44
Sunder the Gold Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011	Space-time refers to the relativity concept that time and space are related, such that traveling through space affects how you travel through time. Gravity doesn't actually exist, it's just that the mass of large bodies like planets distort space and time so that traveling past one in a straight line leads you around it's curve. Or so it's explained in the Extra Credits episode on "technobable" and what those fancy sounding science words actually mean. (EC is a web-based video series found at Penny Arcade's website, in their PATV section. Check it out. ) So, for people who are using instellar spaceships, they'd be experiencing a lot of distorted time because of the speeds and distances trough which they travel space. If it werent for subspace, which in fact ALSO relates to time space in allowing them to cross lots of space in what seems like very little time. Indeed, a jump may even seem like less time than it really is, as far as the rest of the universe is concerned.

2011-12-13, 14:48	Link #45
Kuze Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011	As I prefer to think of it, the TSAB's name refers not so much to a position of ruler ship as it does to the whole "administer the operations necessary to keep reality and time, and all related therein [culture, society, economy, political structure, life, etc] as we know it from collapsing" Or something.

2011-12-13, 15:18	Link #47
Kuze Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011	Alternately then, just keep the current dimension from going all haywire on its inhabitants, try to administer the peace.

2011-12-13, 16:09	Link #48
Keroko Adeptus Animus Author Join Date: Jan 2007 Age: 36	The word the series uses, jikuu, should mean space time. But if the movie leaves out that word, we're left with 'administration bureau.'

2011-12-13, 17:19	Link #50
Sunder the Gold Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011	On that note, something they could add to the series, pre or post StrikerS, is a planet with magical science which has not entered into the TSAB's federation, because their leaders are vigorously collecting overtechnology and Lost Logia and continuing to develop mass-based weaponry, artificial mages, combat cyborgs, war robots... The works. They have a clear edge over the TSAB's military, but since they're only one planet or a small empire, they can't match the manpower and collecting Mage-power that the TSAB's united worlds can bring to bear. So, cold war scenario.

2011-12-13, 23:59	Link #54
Sunder the Gold Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011	Tiresias, your post suggests to me that you're unaware that Olivie inherited a several centuries old war when she was made the last surviving member of the Kaiser bloodline, and how before that point she was given over to the Hegemons of Shutra as a political hostage to cement loyalty. For all we know, she fought against her own Belkan countrymen to stop the Reunification War. Maybe she never even helmed the Cradle.

2011-12-14, 02:31	Link #58
Keroko Adeptus Animus Author Join Date: Jan 2007 Age: 36	The bureau itself is called the "jikuu kanri kyoku" or "spacetime administration bureau." When traveling however, the term used is "jigen" which means "dimension." The weird multi-color universe ships travel between is called Jigen kūkan for example, which means dimensional space, and the spell Vita used is called jigen tensou, dimensional transfer. It should be noted that the TSAB navy also uses the term dimension. Jigenkōkō Butai.

2011-12-14, 06:30	Link #59
FRS Lurker on the threshold Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: France Age: 46	I am "late to the party", so the dimensional part of the TSAB name has been cleared and the TSAB is present across several dimension ?

2011-12-14, 07:03	Link #60
Sunder the Gold Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011	There has been no such agreement.