2012-06-17, 12:36 | Link #22021 |
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I had in mind how stimulus packages were and are suggested in EU. But its true that common policies (financially or other) have very strong opposition in each country by very strong fascist and traditional communist parties (that are absorbed into centre-right and left outside Europe), as well as conservative and liberal parties, that are very close politically to the republicans, who despite their political rhetoric have turned to anarcho-capitalism, unlike their historical leaders that created the EU and set the course for the abolition of powerful states in Europe. It's sad to witness today how for example CDU has changed from Kohl to Merkel.
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2012-06-17, 13:22 | Link #22024 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
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No German party questions the German welfare state more than not wanting to further increase welfare. And even Helmut Kohl was very critical of all the benefits of German workers: "A successful industrial nation, i.e. a nation with a future, cannot be organized like a collective amusement park" is one of his most famous quotes.
The question still stands: how did the Kohl's CDU differ from Merkel's? |
2012-06-17, 14:01 | Link #22025 |
Banned
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Angela Merkel is the strongest opponent to european integration, in stark opposition to Helmut Kohl.
Anyway, first results from Greece prohibit the worst possibilities, extremist right or left coalitions. Now the big question is if the third party (social democrats) will join conservative winner. In between those formed the previous government that were supported by Merkel and Hollande, despite not implementing the measures they signed. There is also an issue about how willing either are to take the responsibility of governing, but at least their most corrupt members are either in prison or fled to Germany, France, and USA to evade court. |
2012-06-17, 14:12 | Link #22026 |
Before the Deluge
Join Date: Jun 2012
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European integration is a fantastic idea. It's an inevitability in the long term. If it isn't so painful, maybe most Asian countries could do the same, but the issue with such an idea would be how imposing China would be as the largest nation in Southeast Asia when you give thought the idea of Asian integration. In fact, I guess an Asian Union of sorts would be pretty much impossible without China spearheading it.
How do you guys feel about that at this point in time? |
2012-06-17, 15:11 | Link #22028 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Gensokyo
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There's still the main issue of language, attaining a federal system is nothing more than a sweet dream as long as this problem exists. If we manage to do, we will have to elect people who represent us, but if only a fragment of Europe can understand them or feel represented by them ... Seems problematic.
But yeah in the long range, I hope too we will be to attain a Europe nation, I would like to still be alive, which isn't very likely. |
2012-06-17, 15:48 | Link #22029 |
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Almost a fourth in the states speak only spanish, and when they formed the original federation it was far worse. Also large federations such as India, Russia and China are multilingual and multinational.
Most Europeans of smaller countries speak 2 or 3 languages already, only France, Germany, Italy and Spain are the exception to this... oh! and a couple of islands close to Europe Language barriers and cultural differences IMHO is just an excuse used by conservatives and fascists and their financial supporters... again with the exception to large nationalized countries where the public has limited exposure to the rest of the world. |
2012-06-17, 16:00 | Link #22031 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Gensokyo
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Hmm, I'm not sure such a law passed, It would be outrageous that french was teached while german isn't. Well at least, english for sure heheehehe. And even then, between having some lessons and understanding people, there's a world between the two.
Anyway, what you say Malkuth is true, but society changes, what happened in the past won't necessarly happen in present mostly because what is doable on small scale is rarely doable once again in a larger scale. We can hope though, and/or strive to hasten the change. |
2012-06-17, 16:00 | Link #22032 |
The Interstellar Medium
Author
Join Date: May 2008
Location: [SWE]
Age: 34
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@Ithekro: Depends heavily on the country. Scandinavia is known for including, with their native ones, English as compulsory. Usually, French and German are quite normal to choose as a Third Language, along with Spanish.
I don't know how it is in Germany or France, but for Norway, Sweden, Finland and Denmark, this is usually the case. @Malkuth: Be somewhat careful with throwing fascist around. A lot of voices here are against the EU exactly due to culture differences, because the EU tries to apply a certain culture to all countries. This doesn't work, obviously, because the culture is so incredibly diverse even between a country such as Sweden and, say, Britain. Hell, it's quite different between the Scandinavian countries even.
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2012-06-17, 16:15 | Link #22033 | ||
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Anyway, from tomorrow I'll at least resume my effort to expand my french repertoire beyond: "je nais parle pas franchais" Quote:
Last edited by Malkuth; 2012-06-17 at 16:30. |
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2012-06-17, 16:15 | Link #22034 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
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It's definitely not a law. Most learn English in school, but again: that does not translate to proficiency. |
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2012-06-17, 16:40 | Link #22035 | |
Banned
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And that's the reason why in large countries people have so many issues since they never get the chance to use the skills they earn. |
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2012-06-17, 16:50 | Link #22036 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
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If you go back to 2010 you'll see that Merkel opposed all bail-outs. Germany gave in to France, Italy etc., not the other way around. "More European integration" is nothing but a euphemism for more money transfer. If Greece does not want to cut spending, we are not forcing them. The thing is Greece is bankrupt, but somehow people think that everything could just go on and on like during the last decade if only Merkel wasn't such a drag and just gave them the money they feel they are entitled to. Now we will have to save Spain's banks, next is Italy. Hopefully before the ESM gets ratified. You think Germans have more trouble with foreign languages than people in smaller countries like e.g. Greece? Doubtful to say the least. |
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2012-06-17, 17:02 | Link #22037 |
formerly ogon bat
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Mexico
Age: 53
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Language is (for better or worse) a non issue in the 21st century English has become the common language (much like latin first and greek later on) were. Not knowing english is akin to being illiterate. So the EU can use english to draft laws that apply to all members, it would be easier than, lets say, using Esperanto.
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2012-06-17, 17:06 | Link #22038 | |||
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It's not fair for the German tax-payers... I agree, but it's also not fair for all F-PIIGS + Cyprus that have to do the same and disproportionally to Germans... and finally politicians begin to realize that the austerity imposed is magnifying the original problem. When Germany needed to rebuild after WWII, all other European countries helped a lot more, learning from their destructive policies in mid-war and driving it to fascism. Now that the roles have finally turned around and Germany has the financial power to contribute, it would be long term to Germany's benefit to help instead of hinder. Quote:
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2012-06-17, 17:09 | Link #22039 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
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2012-06-17, 17:10 | Link #22040 | ||
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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current affairs, discussion, international |
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