One Piece - Chapter 724 [manga]

[JonSnow]

Originally Posted by Whitemoon648

Sanji is the Cook of the Strawhats. This was obvious. They were going to the real new world. I love Sanji as a character and i think it is epic, but to me personally never made sense for Sanji ( a COOK) who doesn't train as much as Zoro to stay as powerful as he has been.

I have said this before Sanji's goal in the story is to find that sea with tons of fishies . Luffy's goal is to become pirate king ( defeat all yonkos) and Zoro wants to be the "Strongest swordman". It wouldn't make sense for Sanji to be as strong these 2 ( plot wise). Some people in this forum ( not directed at you but general) don't see that no matter how many times i try to tell them.



This definitely doesn't confirm that at all. Oda hasn't been super consistent with match ups from the beginning. And anime is even worse in that regards ( I.E. They made it look like he had a hell of tough time against Hordy when he didn't).

You can stay in your delusions about Luffy being comparable to sanji ( see i didn't include Law here). For all we know Law could defeat Doflamingo.

We don't Law's plan at the moment. Law is just buying time for his plan. In a 1v1 scenario ( not a 1v2/ Admiral helping Doffy), if Law really planned to defeat doflamingo in an all in fight ( giving it all) he could very well defeat Doffy in future fights.

As for Luffy, more than likely he hasn't used his to be seen in future Trump card. He could have learned a new power up that had it's own risks ( only to be used against Yonko power up kinda power). Also he might get new power ups in the new world as well. Luffy could defeat Doflamingo 1v1. Unless doflamingo is a Yonko level pirate that is central to the main plot ( not arc plot) is going to go down vs Luffy in a 1v1 battle.

Lastly, More than Likely Zoro could (possibly) go 1v1 vs Doflamingo.

If i had to go in terms of power, i would Luffy is the strongest, then it's Zoro, third Law, close fourth our dear fishmen and then Franky/Sanji would be roughly similar in strength.



Though we disagree sometime on different things, i love your posts .

I wonder if Doflamingo's strings can slice or even hurt Luffy, since his armament haki is on a different level than Sanji's...

[Whitemoon648]

Originally Posted by solidguy

Losing to Dolfie is no biggie but Sanji really needs to do something of worth soon else he runs the risk of being alienated from the top 3 down to possibly Franky's level (in terms of actual importance/ability anyway). I did feel he drew the short end of the straw with his training compared to Luffy and Zoro but perhaps he's saving his greatest abilities as a trump card only in the most desperate situations. Something like Roc Lee's 8 gates which severely damages his body hence why he couldn't really measure up to a big guy post time skip. Otherwise I do see him struggling to remain a force for the remainder of the straw hats venture through the New World.

He is still going to be strong. Doflamingo is just too strong for him. Even in whitebeard's group there were only three-four people that were "really" strong (whitebeard, marco, jozu and vista).

But him not being one of the strongest is fine. His goal/aim is different than Luffy and Zoro. I think he could fight equally against one of the Doflamingo's 3 main general ( with his trump card as you said that is).

Originally Posted by JonSnow

I wonder if Doflamingo's strings can slice or even hurt Luffy, since his armament haki is on a different level than Sanji's...

Imo it could hurt Luffy still. Haki is not an absolute ( impenetrable defense). Also i don't think conqueror's Haki is just a fodder clearer move. We will probably see more advance level of this type of Haki as well.

[ri0]

Good chapter, although I have to join the "Sanji-didn't-have-any-time-to-shine-in-the-NW" party. It was really a little bit disappointing that he didn't stand a chance at all, even though Doflamingo praised him. I hope Zoro and Luffy will show us more development or it means that Doflamingo is simply that strong.

It was interesting to see, how Doflamingo left the Sunny alone, when he saw Law threatening Jora. That would explain why his crew, with some exceptions, is so loyal to him.

As with last chapter, I was really impressed by Law's power and his usage of the fruit. I'm liking him more and more.

Fujitora was awesome as well His prediction, that the battle scene will change, is hopefully not far away

Regarding the next chapters, I'm really interested in Law's past and what the Sunny Team is going to do (I doubt that they head to Zou). Also an update from the Colosseum would be nice.

Originally Posted by Whitemoon648

Sanji is the Cook of the Strawhats. This was obvious. They were going to the real new world. I love Sanji as a character and i think it is epic, but to me personally never made sense for Sanji ( a COOK) who doesn't train as much as Zoro to stay as powerful as he has been.

I have said this before Sanji's goal in the story is to find that sea with tons of fishies . Luffy's goal is to become pirate king ( defeat all yonkos) and Zoro wants to be the "Strongest swordman". It wouldn't make sense for Sanji to be as strong these 2 ( plot wise). Some people in this forum ( not directed at you but general) don't see that no matter how many times i try to tell them.

So true. Zoro is a sole fighter and was training two years under a Shichibukai. The difference between them should have become even bigger now.

Originally Posted by JonSnow

I wonder if Doflamingo's strings can slice or even hurt Luffy, since his armament haki is on a different level than Sanji's...

This is really interesting as Luffy said his Haki gives him near immunity to blunt attacks, but not to sharp ones.

[Battler-kun]

I see Luffy's fruit having the advantage over DD's fruit.

DD won't be able to immobilize Luffy, because he is a rubberman and can stretch any part of his body to his likings.

DD will be only effective with piercing/slashing attacks or massive physical blows.
Imagine a Giant Rifle vs. a Giant fist out of threads clash.

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

Originally Posted by Whitemoon648

This definitely doesn't confirm that at all. Oda hasn't been super consistent with match ups from the beginning. And anime is even worse in that regards ( I.E. They made it look like he had a hell of tough time against Hordy when he didn't).

Anime isn't the canon source material, so never bring that up when talking about consistency. Oda's been quite consistent with his power levels in this series (sorry marvelB, this will be quick, I promise )

Originally Posted by Whitemoon648

You can stay in your delusions about Luffy being comparable to sanji ( see i didn't include Law here). For all we know Law could defeat Doflamingo.

What part of "comparable" do you not understand? What part of the concept of "monster trio" do you not understand? When you're grouped into the same category as someone else, you're either above them or below them (but the difference isn't so drastic, otherwise you wouldn't be in the same category as them).

Originally Posted by Whitemoon648

We don't Law's plan at the moment. Law is just buying time for his plan. In a 1v1 scenario ( not a 1v2/ Admiral helping Doffy), if Law really planned to defeat doflamingo in an all in fight ( giving it all) he could very well defeat Doffy in future fights.

As for Luffy, more than likely he hasn't used his to be seen in future Trump card. He could have learned a new power up that had it's own risks ( only to be used against Yonko power up kinda power). Also he might get new power ups in the new world as well. Luffy could defeat Doflamingo 1v1. Unless doflamingo is a Yonko level pirate that is central to the main plot ( not arc plot) is going to go down vs Luffy in a 1v1 battle.

Law has been on a suicidal course of action this whole time (as demonstrated in this chapter with his interactions with Sanji and Doflamingo). Make of that what you will. All of the strawhats will get stronger as the story progresses. But there are adversaries short of yonkou level that could still defeat the strawhats (2 years of training did not make the strawhats solid top-tier fighters, which is something a lot of people just don't get).

We'll see how things unfold this arc. I have no problem conceding when I'm wrong.

[Blaat]

It's pretty obvious who will defeat Dofla

Spoiler:

It's going to be Nami! While Dofla is gliding (stringing?) from cloud to cloud, Nami will dissipate the clouds, Dofla will fall in the ocean and drown.

THE END.

What do you mean, it's not shouneny?

[Whitemoon648]

Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma

Anime isn't the canon source material, so never bring that up when talking about consistency. Oda's been quite consistent with his power levels in this series (sorry marvelB, this will be quick, I promise )

I am confused as why you are apologizing to marvel, but that aside, each post you make i am thinking more that either you don't read what i said, or just read but pretend you didn't read.

That definitely is your opinion on how consistent Oda has been in his power ups and even though i do respect your opinion, i disagree with it.

In my personal opinion Oda although relative to most other writers has been more consistent , he has had his own inconsistencies.

Even worse in regards to DF powers and Haki.

One piece is my third most loved/favorite anime but that doesn't mean i am going to not say that there are no inconsistencies when there obviously are.

As for anime reference what i meant was anime takes those inconsistencies into another level. Example: Luffy had a rough time against Hordy in manga. In anime Luffy had a "very" hard time against Hordy.

Obviously i know Anime not the canon. I was talking about Manga.

Originally Posted by blackbeard

What part of "comparable" do you not understand? What part of the concept of "monster trio" do you not understand? When you're grouped into the same category as someone else, you're either above them or below them (but the difference isn't so drastic, otherwise you wouldn't be in the same category as them).

krillin in dragon ball vs krillin in DBZ. Sanji was one of the strongest in paradise but now in new world he is still strong but not as strong as the other two. I already explained why it makes sense a few times over.

If you have watched enough anime and read enough manga, you would see many examples of the said "trios" changing over time. This is not a new concept to Anime/manga world. Zoro has always had an edge over Sanji and that Gap grew ( most likely a lot) over the 2 years.

If you disagree i guess, then you disagree. Nothing to argue about here. We just have to wait and see

Also this is what you said last week

Spoiler for your last week post:

Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma

I think people will soon come to the realization (if they haven't already) that Doflamingo is not admiral level. I'm certainly not expecting Sanji to beat the birdman, but the gap between the two shouldn't be very large (especially if Luffy is able to beat Doflamingo by himself legitimately). Power wise, Zoro and Sanji are quite close to Luffy.

I guess your theory about the Gap between Sanji and Doflamingo was proven wrong by this chapter.

Let's see how long will your Luffy, Zoro, Sanji about same power theory will last.

Originally Posted by blackbeard

Law has been on a suicidal course of action this whole time (as demonstrated in this chapter with his interactions with Sanji and Doflamingo). Make of that what you will. All of the strawhats will get stronger as the story progresses. But there are adversaries short of yonkou level that could still defeat the strawhats (2 years of training did not make the strawhats solid top-tier fighters, which is something a lot of people just don't get).

We'll see how things unfold this arc. I have no problem conceding when I'm wrong.

This is what i mean as Oda not being consistent. He is sending mixed signals. He is sending Signals that the 2 years was not enough ( what you said) but at the same time he is also hinting that they actually are ready. It's all over the place.

It's not that people "don't get it". If i had to categorize it, there are 3 groups of people. First group believes that oda is saying 2 years wasn't enough. Second group believe that Oda is saying 2 years was enough. And the third group would be those that actually believe that Oda is hinting towards both 1 and 2 ( thus the inconsistencies).

Also considering we haven't seen much from Luffy and Zoro's real strength compared to big timers like doflamingo, If the gap between Sanji and the other two has become too wide and if the strawhats pick up few super strong pirates ( like Law, cavendish, Jinbei, ...) then the pieces would fall in place for battle royal against kaido.

Originally Posted by Blaat

It's pretty obvious who will defeat Dofla

Spoiler:

It's going to be Nami! While Dofla is gliding (stringing?) from cloud to cloud, Nami will dissipate the clouds, Dofla will fall in the ocean and drown.

THE END.

What do you mean, it's not shouneny?

haha love this . Too bad there is no longer the rep system or else you would have my positive rep.

Originally Posted by ri0

Good chapter, although I have to join the "Sanji-didn't-have-any-time-to-shine-in-the-NW" party. It was really a little bit disappointing that he didn't stand a chance at all, even though Doflamingo praised him. I hope Zoro and Luffy will show us more development or it means that Doflamingo is simply that strong.

I am pretty much in the same page as you on this one . Just i think Sanji did shine. He was prepared to sacrifice himself for Nami SWAN and others. That in itself super epic.

Originally Posted by ri0

It was interesting to see, how Doflamingo left the Sunny alone, when he saw Law threatening Jora. That would explain why his crew, with some exceptions, is so loyal to him.


.

What you said and another possibility ( to add to what you said), could be that maybe Dofla needs her or her powers for something important. It could be similar to how he needs CC.

[JonSnow]

Judging by Luffy's face, Sanji probably told Luffy the details regarding Law. Now the question is, will Luffy leave the tournament and help the guy who saved his life or stay ? If he leaves the tournament, that would give Bartolomeo the chance to do what he wanted to do from the beginning, which is win the fruit for Luffy

[Whitemoon648]

Originally Posted by JonSnow

Judging by Luffy's face, Sanji probably told Luffy the details regarding Law. Now the question is, will Luffy leave the tournament and help the guy who saved his life or stay ? If he leaves the tournament, that would give Bartolomeo the chance to do what he wanted to do from the beginning, which is win the fruit for Luffy

Maaaan Luffy Vs Doflamingo . It could very well happen.

[Shockingly]

Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma

^ And this also pretty much confirms that Luffy can't beat Doflamingo by himself either (he's comparable to Law and Sanji, after all). It looks like it's going to take a collaborative effort to defeat Doflamingo. The monster trio are not even in the lower end of the top-tier bracket (and that's what Doflamingo is: a low top-tier fighter).

Just like how he turned out wrong, you're going to turn out wrong about Luffy not being able to defeat him by himself. You fail to gather the details.

Originally Posted by JonSnow

Judging by Luffy's face, Sanji probably told Luffy the details regarding Law. Now the question is, will Luffy leave the tournament and help the guy who saved his life or stay ? If he leaves the tournament, that would give Bartolomeo the chance to do what he wanted to do from the beginning, which is win the fruit for Luffy

Sanji hasn't told Luffy anything.
So that throws off everything you've said.

[noktown]

Well,Sanji's loss wasn't as bad as I thought it would be,no biggie,he just wasn't aware of the opponent's hax ability.

That's like considering Luffy weaker than Caesar since he lost consciousness on their first encounter due to his ability.It doesn't change anything,yeah Donflamingo is strong and pretty much everyone in the New World can probably defend against his Diable Jambe attacks,and while I do admit that Donflamingo in the end is probably stronger than Sanji,but there was nothing serious in this fight.

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

Originally Posted by Whitemoon648

I am confused as why you are apologizing to marvel, but that aside, each post you make i am thinking more that either you don't read what i said, or just read but pretend you didn't read.

That definitely is your opinion on how consistent Oda has been in his power ups and even though i do respect your opinion, i disagree with it.

In my personal opinion Oda although relative to most other writers has been more consistent , he has had his own inconsistencies.

I said Oda has been quite consistent, which means not entirely. Read carefully next time.

Originally Posted by Whitemoon648

One piece is my third most loved/favorite anime but that doesn't mean i am going to not say that there are no inconsistencies when there obviously are.

As for anime reference what i meant was anime takes those inconsistencies into another level. Example: Luffy had a rough time against Hordy in manga. In anime Luffy had a "very" hard time against Hordy.

Obviously i know Anime not the canon. I was talking about Manga..

See above. Read carefully next time.

Originally Posted by Whitemoon648

krillin in dragon ball vs krillin in DBZ. Sanji was one of the strongest in paradise but now in new world he is still strong but not as strong as the other two. I already explained why it makes sense a few times over.

Except that in One Piece you can still be at the top even if your dream doesn't involve being the strongest/greatest in something. Oda has made that very clear.

Originally Posted by Whitemoon648

If you have watched enough anime and read enough manga, you would see many examples of the said "trios" changing over time. This is not a new concept to Anime/manga world. Zoro has always had an edge over Sanji and that Gap grew ( most likely a lot) over the 2 years.

Prove that the gap between Zoro and Sanji grew. Fact of the matter is that Sanji is part of the monster trio, always has been, and will continue to be. Oda hasn't deviated from this in the slightest.

Originally Posted by Whitemoon648

Also this is what you said last week

Spoiler for your last week post:

I guess your theory about the Gap between Sanji and Doflamingo was proven wrong by this chapter.

Let's see how long will your Luffy, Zoro, Sanji about same power theory will last..

I said the gap between Doflamingo and Sanji shouldn't be very large under the pretense that Luffy is able to beat Doflamingo because Sanji is a part of the monster trio and thus not too far off from Luffy's strength. If anything this chapter asserted my earlier assessment of Doflamingo's strength (that he's Vista/Jozu level, and thus a low top-tier fighter).

I'm confident in my assessment of the monster trio. I haven't been proven wrong over the years because, again, Oda hasn't deviated from the norm he's established.

Originally Posted by Whitemoon648

This is what i mean as Oda not being consistent. He is sending mixed signals. He is sending Signals that the 2 years was not enough ( what you said) but at the same time he is also hinting that they actually are ready. It's all over the place.

It's not that people "don't get it". If i had to categorize it, there are 3 groups of people. First group believes that oda is saying 2 years wasn't enough. Second group believe that Oda is saying 2 years was enough. And the third group would be those that actually believe that Oda is hinting towards both 1 and 2 ( thus the inconsistencies).

Also considering we haven't seen much from Luffy and Zoro's real strength compared to big timers like doflamingo, If the gap between Sanji and the other two has become too wide and if the strawhats pick up few super strong pirates ( like Law, cavendish, Jinbei, ...) then the pieces would fall in place for battle royal against kaido.

Here's the thing. You have to keep in mind that Luffy and Zoro haven't run into the caliber of opponents that Sanji has post-skip (Vergo and Doflamingo). So it looks like they're more impressive right now than him because they haven't struggled/been challenged as of yet whereas Sanji has. Their time will soon come. So your comparison of Sanji to Luffy and Zoro is flawed to begin with. An even playing field has yet to be established for comparison purposes.

Maybe I'm overestimating Doflamingo and underestimating the strawhats. But I'm eager to see how Oda will tackle this. This is looking like Alabasta all over again where the shichibukai (Croc) appeared invincible at first, but was beaten in the end through technicalities/strategy. So Sanji losing to Doflamingo doesn't tarnish his repuation in the slightest, really.

[ZGoten]

I'd say Don Chinjao was a pretty formidable opponent for Luffy. But then again, I don't see him as necessarily stronger than Vergo. I'm leaning towards noktown's opinion on the Sanji situation. He got caught by surprise and that's that. It's actually one of Doflamingo's biggest strenghts. His enemies just aren't able to move all of a sudden, don't know why and are thus one attack away from being killed. Once you know what to expect, though, I'm sure there are ways to work around that. Sanji is a clever guy, and I'd guess that if they were to face off against each other again, he would fare a lot better. I also doubt that Doflamingo's attack would have killed Sanji, hadn't Law intervened. The Strawhats are ususally at their strongest when they've already taken a couple of supposed killing blows. Maybe the difference in power really is that big, but I don't think we can tell from a fight that lasted a couple of seconds and was semi decided by a surprise attack that would have a similar effect on anyone else who's not anticipating it.

[JonSnow]

Originally Posted by Shockingly

Sanji hasn't told Luffy anything.
So that throws off everything you've said.

Well Sanji was on the den den mushi and Kin'emon had Sanji's den den mushi. So I figured Sanji told Kin'emon the details, that's why Zoro and Kin'emon was yelling at Luffy , letting him know the details. I might be wrong though.

[Rainbowman]

Great to see the confirmation on Doflamingo's devil fruit powers. And it looks like Law is ready for round two.

[Whitemoon648]

Originally Posted by The Small One

IIRC Sainji's main training was concerned to cooking.
Okay, he had to fight those Okamas to get the recipes, but his main goal wasn't to get stronger, it was to gain the knowledge of better food.


I'm a little bit disappointed, that Dofla's power turned out to be the obvious DF power. I really hoped it would turn out to be something unique and new. Like some sort of Haki infused threads, or a power only the Celestial Dragons know about.

That's what i have been trying to convey about Sanji's training as well . So i also agree with you.

As for Threads i think he still or can infuse them with Haki. I always thought he either had the puppet fruit or the obvious thread one.

And as for a power that only Celestial dragons would know, i also think there will be something like that along the road as well.

[~Yami~]

at least Sanji isn't died yet
Doflamingo is out of his league

so we're going to continue Law vs Doflamingo death match... I hope Law isn't died.. I like him
Doflamingo's power isn't as awesome as I predicted... but still... adding Haki in that power is troublesome
could we go back to colloseum already?

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

Originally Posted by The Small One

IIRC Sainji's main training was concerned to cooking.
Okay, he had to fight those Okamas to get the recipes, but his main goal wasn't to get stronger, it was to gain the knowledge of better food.

The whole point of the time-skip was for all the strawhats to get stronger. They couldn't let what happened to them at the archipelago happen again. Sanji having to fight those Okamas to get the recipes MADE him stronger (and that's not even accounting for the possibility of him being under the tutelage of Ivankov).

[Shockingly]

Originally Posted by JonSnow

Well Sanji was on the den den mushi and Kin'emon had Sanji's den den mushi. So I figured Sanji told Kin'emon the details, that's why Zoro and Kin'emon was yelling at Luffy , letting him know the details. I might be wrong though.

Looks like Law is just recalling the people on Dressrosa who he won't see again which is Luffy and the others. He believes that he may die fighting Doflamingo. He's going to try and kill Doflamingo even if it means he dies trying. It will also buy him sometime. Either way Doflamingo loses. If they've already got into contact with Luffy as you say then that's good.

While Luffy continues to finish the tournament Zoro can go help Law buy time without Law having to die.

[marvelB]

I normally tend to stay away from power level debates, but this time around.....

Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma

The whole point of the time-skip was for all the strawhats to get stronger. They couldn't let what happened to them at the archipelago happen again.

^THIS, basically. And to add to what BDK said here, just because they needed to become stronger does NOT mean they need to be at the level of an admiral or emperor. And it's not like they still don't have room to improve during their travels through the NW, anyway. That's why I feel the alliances were a very smart move on Oda's part. Alone, Luffy and co. would most definitely get wrecked by a yonkou's forces, but if they team up with other strong pirates, they have a better chance of taking them down without the need for another timeskip!



And with that being said..... I think both Dofla and Fujitora are proof enough that a supernova-level pirate can't take them on solo, seeing as how Law still had trouble handling them (and this despite his fancy teleportation stunts, lol).