AnimeSuki Forums

UnknownBeast · 2009-01-14, 02:24

You guys are awesome. I just found out that you guys also translated the beginning of EP4 too.. but I didn't read that yet >.>

But if I may, I have some comments..

Spoiler for ep3.. just in case:

Okay... that's it..

Great job ^__^

**Klashikari** · 2009-01-14, 04:40

1) That has nothing to do with the Touhou meme (yukkuri) at all.
The actual portion is "無理し" (murushi) which means along the line "overdo/strain oneself/unreasonable". Generally speaking, the characters are often saying "don't strain yourself/don't over do it", and we change with take it easy on various occasions.

2) As mentioned in the grimoire, it has an essential legacy and link with Higurashi. Furthermore, they use the Katakana (カケラ) here, not the kanji (欠片).
If we use "fragment", it would be the literal sense, so it would have no real connotation with the "worlds" here, which would miss completely the point, with both the connection with higurashi and the actual meaning.

UnknownBeast · 2009-01-14, 07:18

1. Yeah I know. What I meant was that the meme made me notice the (over?)use of the phrase in the game. Something just went weird on my part, heheh >_>;

2. Hmm okay. But I sorta disagree on the bit that using 'fragment' will have a literal meaning. Since the Higurashi anime had described the worlds as fragments (the beginning of Kai shows them in actual glass fragments). So I think that the people who read it can understand the actual meaning.

Since it was written in Katakana in Japanese, maybe you could capitalize the first letter in english, to differentiate it from the usual meaning.
"I can't find the right Fragment." or something..

But as I said, I'm fine with it either way.

chronotrig · 2009-01-14, 12:15

One of the problems with translating Japanese is that there are some phrases that they use a whole lot more than we do. I'm sure you've noticed some phrases repeated over and over in certain subs (the worst probably being 'That was so nostalgic'). We'll make an effort to vary things up a bit--you may not have noticed but that phrase is translated that way only half the time--but it is almost always coming from the same word.

And about Fragment...it just sounds awkward when it's supposed to be serious.

Spoiler for end of ep3:

It sounds like she's picking stuff up out of a dumpster.

If the series were over, we might think of something more fancy, but since the series is ongoing and we still don't know for sure what these kakera are, I think it's better to leave the term as vague as the original Japanese word.

actawesome · 2009-01-14, 19:54

OMG I just saw what you guys did with 4. I have to admit it made me XD

You evil bastards. =P
That I freaked out when Renove said that.

UnknownBeast · 2009-01-14, 20:00

Okay, that's great..

Darn that meme, I don't even follow Touhou <_<

Quote:

Originally Posted by chronotrig

And about Fragment...it just sounds awkward when it's supposed to be serious.

..

Well I don't know.. but if one was suddenly reading a normally-written-in-Kanji word in katakana.. I think it would sound awkward to some of the Japanese readers too.

If I got this right, the reason that it was written in katakana was to remove the word from the kanji that binds it to the connotations of 'fragment', but still retains a meaning of it.

So, just IMO, I don't think "Fragment" will sound ridiculous at all. Since it still looks like 'fragment' but because of the capitalized letter, it doesn't have to mean as an actual fragment.

Then again, I don't really know fully of the connotations in the English language too. (Not my first language)
So.. >_>;

I still haven't read that Chapter 0. I'm thirsty for Umineko, but I'll probably be drinking salt water if I read that.. *coughcough* >.<;

lovelysan · 2009-01-14, 20:31

Personally I'm on Beast's side on the "Fragment" issue. Buuuuut, I also understand the reasoning on the TWH translators side.

So uh, yeah, just wanted to throw that in there.

AAAAANYWAYS. TWH did something with epi 4 huh? Aaawwww, I wanna see... I still haven't received my disk 4 yet for some reason >( . Considering how much HimeyaShop charges for shipping, I'm a touch annoyed. (Ah, looked on the site- they aren't officially releasing them until Jan 20. Bummer....)

k//eternal · 2009-01-14, 21:01

I'm thinking "kakera" is the best option simply because it keeps the Higurashi connection "most stable" in the sense that regardless of what they may have been translated as in your experience with Higurashi, "kakera" is a term you've probably heard them referred to as, while if in Higurashi you've seen them as "Shards" and in Umineko as "Fragments" that creates some ambiguity as to whether the two are the same. That is, the simple existence of the question of how to translate the name implies that it's best left alone.

Nobody had any trouble identifying them as the same thing seen in Higurashi the way they're referred to right now, correct?

(Also, don't expect too much in the way of Ep. 4 at present, haha...)

chronotrig · 2009-01-14, 21:06

Well, I'm not so stuck on the word that I won't at least consider changing it. Obviously, most people reading this patch vaguely know what a kakera is, and if you're more comfortable reading it as Fragment, it isn't really a big deal.

We'll keep it as is for now, but that might change in the future.

k//eternal · 2009-01-14, 21:10

By the way, I've seen some previous game translation (don't remember which... Kanon perhaps?) that involved clickable text that would momentarily divert to a clarification of the word or words in question. I was wondering if this was possible in onscripter and if so, if it was worth considering basically incorporating the grimoires in-game, along with any other points of possible confusion such as the kakera.

Also, since we're going back and cleaning up the older games' scripts, are we planning to rewrite Jessica's lines to show her "crude" manner of speech (among any other stylistic issues anyone may have had in mind)? If so, it may be better to do it all in one sweep.

meh · 2009-01-14, 22:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Since mediafire is down for quite a while, I uploaded the patch on rapidshare as well.
Here are the links

Thanks so much. Can't access mediafire where I live unfortunately.

Aeriven · 2009-01-14, 22:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by lovelysan

AAAAANYWAYS. TWH did something with epi 4 huh? Aaawwww, I wanna see... I still haven't received my disk 4 yet for some reason >( . Considering how much HimeyaShop charges for shipping, I'm a touch annoyed. (Ah, looked on the site- they aren't officially releasing them until Jan 20. Bummer....)

If it makes you feel better, I'm in the same boat. I pre-ordered my copy before the new year (when HimeyaShop said the game would be in sometime in late December), and I'm still sitting at Order Processing. I guess mine is in the next batch. I wants my Umineko!!

Also, since I hadn't commented on it yet, congratulations on Ryukishi07's email! I was so excited for you guys when I read that!!

momobunny · 2009-01-14, 22:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aghra

If it makes you feel better, I'm in the same boat. I pre-ordered my copy before the new year (when HimeyaShop said the game would be in sometime in late December), and I'm still sitting at Order Processing. I guess mine is in the next batch. I wants my Umineko!!

I'm also in the same boat. ._.

Rosa Mystica · 2009-01-15, 13:33

Weird Himeya did that ... I got mine an few days after new years ... I think the 6th?

Mystearika · 2009-01-16, 10:43

my order is also prosessing

hope it comes then after the 20,th

Tjfarmer · 2009-01-17, 03:16

For the episode 4 patch...... Whoever decided to put Chapter 0 of chapter 4 included, was genius. After it ended, I was like "Aw, nothing else is gonna be in English"

Then when it was in English still I was like, ooh, awesome. Then I laughed my ass off. Beatrice quick flashing face was hilarious. Anyone mind telling me what the characters in red that briefly flash are saying though?

Saerianne · 2009-01-17, 06:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tjfarmer

For the episode 4 patch...... Whoever decided to put Chapter 0 of chapter 4 included, was genius. After it ended, I was like "Aw, nothing else is gonna be in English"

Then when it was in English still I was like, ooh, awesome. Then I laughed my ass off. Beatrice quick flashing face was hilarious. Anyone mind telling me what the characters in red that briefly flash are saying though?

I don't know what they were saying, but it scared the crap out of me 'cause I wasn't expecting it. XD Did they do it for the other episodes?

**Klashikari** · 2009-01-17, 06:30

The characters are basically the Hiragana for "Kihihihihihihi, *giggle*giggle*giggle*giggle*giggle* Ahahahahahahaha"

And actually, we wanted to do something similar for Episode 2 when we were done with ep1, but it was scrapped out (there was supposed to have an army of tommy-george + golden slaughterer

).
The little teaser was given so that everyone could reach the portion that leads to the new OP.

Mikachiru · 2009-01-17, 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by lovelysan

AAAAANYWAYS. TWH did something with epi 4 huh? Aaawwww, I wanna see... I still haven't received my disk 4 yet for some reason >( . Considering how much HimeyaShop charges for shipping, I'm a touch annoyed. (Ah, looked on the site- they aren't officially releasing them until Jan 20. Bummer....)

Same here...

I wanna cry for having to rush to the mailbox everyday for nothing...

Saerianne · 2009-01-17, 18:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Klashikari

The characters are basically the Hiragana for "Kihihihihihihi, *giggle*giggle*giggle*giggle*giggle* Ahahahahahahaha"

And actually, we wanted to do something similar for Episode 2 when we were done with ep1, but it was scrapped out (there was supposed to have an army of tommy-george + golden slaughterer

).
The little teaser was given so that everyone could reach the portion that leads to the new OP.

Ahh, okay. ^^ Thanks anyway guys, it was a real good treat to laugh over! =D

2009-01-14, 02:24	Link #961
UnknownBeast Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008	You guys are awesome. I just found out that you guys also translated the beginning of EP4 too.. but I didn't read that yet >.> But if I may, I have some comments.. Spoiler for ep3.. just in case: - The phrase "Take it easy" has come up a lot.. around 5 or more... probably it's because of a certain Touhou meme that made me notice this.. but I dunno.. >_<; - "Kakera". Well I think that it is fine to translate this to 'fragment'.. You did translate it in the OP as "shattered pieces". Just explain what 'fragment' actually mean in the grimoire, instead of the other way around. The kanji doesn't say any different or anything right? Bern was litterally saying 'I can't find the right fragments' or of the sort right? Well this is my opinion. I'm fine with it but it just sounded weird. Okay... that's it.. Great job ^__^ Last edited by UnknownBeast; 2009-01-14 at 02:35.

2009-01-14, 04:40	Link #962
Klashikari 阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180 Graphic Designer Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Belgium, Brussels Age: 37	1) That has nothing to do with the Touhou meme (yukkuri) at all. The actual portion is "無理し" (murushi) which means along the line "overdo/strain oneself/unreasonable". Generally speaking, the characters are often saying "don't strain yourself/don't over do it", and we change with take it easy on various occasions. 2) As mentioned in the grimoire, it has an essential legacy and link with Higurashi. Furthermore, they use the Katakana (カケラ) here, not the kanji (欠片). If we use "fragment", it would be the literal sense, so it would have no real connotation with the "worlds" here, which would miss completely the point, with both the connection with higurashi and the actual meaning. __________________ [Sig art: Kagura Yuu, Nunukko, Maku Rako & Mishima Kurone] / [Twitter]

2009-01-14, 12:15	Link #964
chronotrig Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Buffer overflow	One of the problems with translating Japanese is that there are some phrases that they use a whole lot more than we do. I'm sure you've noticed some phrases repeated over and over in certain subs (the worst probably being 'That was so nostalgic'). We'll make an effort to vary things up a bit--you may not have noticed but that phrase is translated that way only half the time--but it is almost always coming from the same word. And about Fragment...it just sounds awkward when it's supposed to be serious. Spoiler for end of ep3: I had planned on bringing you an ideal Fragment today... I had planned on bringing you an ideal Piece today... I had planned on bringing you an ideal Shard today... It sounds like she's picking stuff up out of a dumpster. If the series were over, we might think of something more fancy, but since the series is ongoing and we still don't know for sure what these kakera are, I think it's better to leave the term as vague as the original Japanese word. __________________ "The only moral it is possible to draw from this story is that one should never throw the letter 'q' into a privet bush. But, unfortunately, there are times when it is unavoidable." --Hitchhikers www.witch-hunt.com Theory page

2009-01-14, 21:06	Link #969
chronotrig Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Buffer overflow	Well, I'm not so stuck on the word that I won't at least consider changing it. Obviously, most people reading this patch vaguely know what a kakera is, and if you're more comfortable reading it as Fragment, it isn't really a big deal. We'll keep it as is for now, but that might change in the future. __________________ "The only moral it is possible to draw from this story is that one should never throw the letter 'q' into a privet bush. But, unfortunately, there are times when it is unavoidable." --Hitchhikers www.witch-hunt.com Theory page

2009-01-15, 13:33	Link #974
Rosa Mystica Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: London Age: 41	Weird Himeya did that ... I got mine an few days after new years ... I think the 6th? __________________ Fan subbing will never die

2009-01-14, 07:18	Link #963
UnknownBeast Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008	1. Yeah I know. What I meant was that the meme made me notice the (over?)use of the phrase in the game. Something just went weird on my part, heheh >_>; 2. Hmm okay. But I sorta disagree on the bit that using 'fragment' will have a literal meaning. Since the Higurashi anime had described the worlds as fragments (the beginning of Kai shows them in actual glass fragments). So I think that the people who read it can understand the actual meaning. Since it was written in Katakana in Japanese, maybe you could capitalize the first letter in english, to differentiate it from the usual meaning. "I can't find the right Fragment." or something.. But as I said, I'm fine with it either way.

2009-01-14, 19:54	Link #965
actawesome Member Join Date: May 2006	OMG I just saw what you guys did with 4. I have to admit it made me XD You evil bastards. =P That I freaked out when Renove said that.

2009-01-14, 20:31	Link #967
lovelysan Umineko and Mabinogi fan~ Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Florida Age: 42	Personally I'm on Beast's side on the "Fragment" issue. Buuuuut, I also understand the reasoning on the TWH translators side. So uh, yeah, just wanted to throw that in there. AAAAANYWAYS. TWH did something with epi 4 huh? Aaawwww, I wanna see... I still haven't received my disk 4 yet for some reason >( . Considering how much HimeyaShop charges for shipping, I'm a touch annoyed. (Ah, looked on the site- they aren't officially releasing them until Jan 20. Bummer....)

2009-01-14, 21:01	Link #968
k//eternal do you know ベアトリーチェ様? Join Date: Dec 2003 Age: 35	I'm thinking "kakera" is the best option simply because it keeps the Higurashi connection "most stable" in the sense that regardless of what they may have been translated as in your experience with Higurashi, "kakera" is a term you've probably heard them referred to as, while if in Higurashi you've seen them as "Shards" and in Umineko as "Fragments" that creates some ambiguity as to whether the two are the same. That is, the simple existence of the question of how to translate the name implies that it's best left alone. Nobody had any trouble identifying them as the same thing seen in Higurashi the way they're referred to right now, correct? (Also, don't expect too much in the way of Ep. 4 at present, haha...)

2009-01-14, 21:10	Link #970
k//eternal do you know ベアトリーチェ様? Join Date: Dec 2003 Age: 35	By the way, I've seen some previous game translation (don't remember which... Kanon perhaps?) that involved clickable text that would momentarily divert to a clarification of the word or words in question. I was wondering if this was possible in onscripter and if so, if it was worth considering basically incorporating the grimoires in-game, along with any other points of possible confusion such as the kakera. Also, since we're going back and cleaning up the older games' scripts, are we planning to rewrite Jessica's lines to show her "crude" manner of speech (among any other stylistic issues anyone may have had in mind)? If so, it may be better to do it all in one sweep.

2009-01-16, 10:43	Link #975
Mystearika Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007	my order is also prosessing hope it comes then after the 20,th __________________

2009-01-17, 03:16	Link #976
Tjfarmer I'm almost there! Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Bay Area, California Age: 30	For the episode 4 patch...... Whoever decided to put Chapter 0 of chapter 4 included, was genius. After it ended, I was like "Aw, nothing else is gonna be in English" Then when it was in English still I was like, ooh, awesome. Then I laughed my ass off. Beatrice quick flashing face was hilarious. Anyone mind telling me what the characters in red that briefly flash are saying though?

2009-01-17, 06:30	Link #978
Klashikari 阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180 Graphic Designer Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Belgium, Brussels Age: 37	The characters are basically the Hiragana for "Kihihihihihihi, gigglegigglegigglegigglegiggle Ahahahahahahaha" And actually, we wanted to do something similar for Episode 2 when we were done with ep1, but it was scrapped out (there was supposed to have an army of tommy-george + golden slaughterer ). The little teaser was given so that everyone could reach the portion that leads to the new OP. __________________ [Sig art: Kagura Yuu, Nunukko, Maku Rako & Mishima Kurone] / [Twitter]