Mobile Suit Gundam 00 - Episode 09 Discussion / Poll

[dreamless]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

That's a little strange. Normally, battleships are armed to the teeth, but the Laohus don't seem to have much in the way of armaments. (Why would one name such a ship "tiger"?)

well, so the Peach is armed to the teeth while the Tiger is without much teeth

I'm referring to why they were so close to the ring in the first place.

well, they use the elevators to transport the Gundams up, so I guess they may want to keep the ship somewhere close to fetch the Gundams.

Precisely. Accusations of "ripoff" and "clone" are far more rampant among anime fans (and many other fan groups as well) than is really warranted. Personality wise, Felt is nothing like Rei.

That we can completely agree.

[idofgrahf]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

Plenty. For starters, it would separate the Gundams from all of their support; making it that much easier to round them up. It'd be even better if they crippled Ptolemaios rather than destroying it.

Cripplying it perhaphs but destroying it would be counter productive, it was hard enough for them to track a single steath ship, destroying their base would make it harder to track individual gundams, as the gundams would most likely disperse and go into hiding (more so then they already are), so far the Ptolemy, which seem to need refuling seemed more of a liablity then an asset for the Gundams so, other then their crew bitting the dust I'm not sure how it really matters to the pilots (Some missions were corrdianted on the ground just fine)

Not necessarily. While the HRL gave lots of resources to Sergei's mission, it wasn't unlimited. Besides, if they had deemed that hundreds of mobile suits were required for such a mission, they wouldn't have assigned a mere Lt. Colonel to the task.

I'm simplying say that HLR have that ability to deploy hundreds of suits not that they should or go to the trouble. Like I said, CB seem to exist, right now, because the major powers seem to want to capture their tech or any of the three could have destroyed them by now. Lastly, remmber this is Gundam, rank doesn't seem to matter to these people (IE Char a Lt. Commander got to command the entire Zeon military in North America during the assult on Jubor when in real life that would have been done by a Lt. General at least).

[SuperKnuckles]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

How is claiming that they won't do anything to Celestial Being anything other than letting them get away with it?

Please illuminate for us why you think that they're playing a zero-sum game.

You're being wayyyyyy too presumptuous about exactly why AEU feels they need to let CB 'get away' with anything. Maybe to you, you feel that it is something that must be addressed but like I said, AEU was fully willing to play the game behind the scenes at least with a proxy force that'll get all the ugly work done for them. There is no formal war, no formal action and it's very apparent that most of the populations oppose action against a force that will guarantee a lopsided loss militarily. If there is no formal war and if CB really isn't attacking any of AEU's interests when they are standing down, there really is no reason to needlessly pursue them at this point.

And if you were paying any attention to the smaller political details according to the show, it seems most of the open violence that would attract Celestial Being was being winded down by most openly contentious nations. AEU wishes to fly under the radar and they aren't getting attacked. To me, that is another way to 'fight' CB at the moment. Work it behind the scenes instead of taking them headfirst that would only result in mobile suits lost.

And the zero sum game is coming from how AEU is obviously planning to gauge its rivals' military strength by letting them take the initiative to see how they stand in the midst.

And what precisely was it that Sergei said?

Why put the onus on me when it is you who forgot? Sergei said the operation couldn't have been feasible for other factions. That's not what I said. That's what the show was alluding to.

And New Orleans never suffered massive damage from hurricanes for decades before it got hit by Katrina. Does that mean that their hurricane prevention system was adequate? Besides, when it comes to risk management, it's silly to base one's actions on the empirical evidence of a single unit.

Where did that analogy fly out of? That doesn't make any sense. By 'empirical logic', I was going by YOUR idea of sensing out an enemy ship via visual contact. And like you said, you plainly said before that if the ship couldn't be found on radar, it'd be natural for them to do so via visual contact. But they didn't. That is precisely why the HRL set up a communication sensor. That is empirical logic. For some reason, visual contact was not an OPTION. It's not about 'damage assessment' or the groups being openly negligent. Apparently the three factions had plenty of side doors and hidden operations going on trying to find CB so it's not a matter of neglect but that Celestial Being did a good job of hiding from them one way or the other. I still say that visual contact really couldn't have been a decisive factor in all this especially when there are apparently all that debris and space ships apparent in 00's world.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Hey Cool! The Nobel Gundam is back.......kind of. Either that or it's the Hair Metal Gundam.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by dreamless

well, so the Peach is armed to the teeth while the Tiger is without much teeth

Maybe they breed some mighty weird peaches and toothless tigers in 2307.

Originally Posted by dreamless

well, they use the elevators to transport the Gundams up, so I guess they may want to keep the ship somewhere close to fetch the Gundams.

Sure, maybe when they first pick them, but it makes rather less chance when doing repairs that leave them vulnerable.

Originally Posted by idofgrahf

Cripplying it perhaphs but destroying it would be counter productive, it was hard enough for them to track a single steath ship, destroying their base would make it harder to track individual gundams, as the gundams would most likely disperse and go into hiding (more so then they already are), so far the Ptolemy, which seem to need refuling seemed more of a liablity then an asset for the Gundams so, other then their crew bitting the dust I'm not sure how it really matters to the pilots (Some missions were corrdianted on the ground just fine)

You did catch the bit where they were making essential repairs to the Gundams, right? And it's not as if the Gundams couldn't run off if they thought they couldn't win.

Originally Posted by idofraghf

Lastly, remmber this is Gundam, rank doesn't seem to matter to these people (IE Char a Lt. Commander got to command the entire Zeon military in North America during the assult on Jubor when in real life that would have been done by a Lt. General at least).

Are you trying to use this as an excuse, or are you trying to criticise Gundam shows in general?

Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles

You're being wayyyyyy too presumptuous about exactly why AEU feels they need to let CB 'get away' with anything. Maybe to you, you feel that it is something that must be addressed but like I said, AEU was fully willing to play the game behind the scenes at least with a proxy force that'll get all the ugly work done for them.

I'm purely talking about AEU's public pronouncements; not about what they might be planning to do.

Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles

There is no formal war, no formal action and it's very apparent that most of the populations oppose action against a force that will guarantee a lopsided loss militarily. If there is no formal war and if CB really isn't attacking any of AEU's interests when they are standing down, there really is no reason to needlessly pursue them at this point.

You don't seem to get it. Celestial Being isn't a country, so there'll be no such thing as a formal military response to begin with. However, if they wanted the public to know that they weren't going to let an attack on them go unanswered, there's tons of ways of conveying that besides "we'll only do something if they penetrate our territory again".

Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles

And the zero sum game is coming from how AEU is obviously planning to gauge its rivals' military strength by letting them take the initiative to see how they stand in the midst.

And how is this supposed to be a zero-sum game?

Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles

Why put the onus on me when it is you who forgot? Sergei said the operation couldn't have been feasible for other factions. That's not what I said. That's what the show was alluding to.

I know what Sergei said, but I wanted to know what quote you were referring to. However, I don't recall anytime that he said that none of the other power blocs could have put up that communications net, so can you write out the exact quote?

Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles

Where did that analogy fly out of? That doesn't make any sense. By 'empirical logic', I was going by YOUR idea of sensing out an enemy ship via visual contact.

My point is that your argument was a hasty generalization - just because a ship escaped being detected by technique X for a period of time, that doesn't mean that it will escape such detection indefinitely.

Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles

And like you said, you plainly said before that if the ship couldn't be found on radar, it'd be natural for them to do so via visual contact.

Incorrect. My argument was that it would have been more prudent had Ptolemaios taken precautions against the possibility of getting found.

Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles

But they didn't. That is precisely why the HRL set up a communication sensor. That is empirical logic. For some reason, visual contact was not an OPTION.

How do you manage to conclude that, simply because the HRL used one technique to detect Ptolemaios, any other technique automatically wouldn't work? That looks more like fallacious logic than empirical logic.

[Anh_Minh]

My guess is that they put giant black glasses on the gundams, and nobody can see through that cunning disguise.

[idofgrahf]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

Are you trying to use this as an excuse, or are you trying to criticise Gundam shows in general?

I'm simply stating the facts and they are; in the past and even current Gundam shows, rank is not a big factor in who gets what, I neither clamed it a good thing or bad thing, nor using it as an excuse, its simply the way Gundam shows function. Amuro was at best Lt. in CCA english translation movie (I know he's listed Lt. Commander in wiki but that thing is rarely reliable) and was commander of Londobell MS forces, Bright, only a captain, commands one battleship and three heavy crusers all of them the best ESFS could field at the time. I can give plenty more examples but it'll take too long.

As for the servicing of MS's, considering that they were able to equipt the Gundams with additional weapons on the ground, I see little differicultly in them servicing them on the ground, if anything, it seems the Ptolemy is dependent on the Gundam than the other way around.

[Alice16uy]

Originally Posted by LightningZERO

From gunota:

Spoiler:

GN-004 Gundam Nadle
"The form uncovered when the Gundam Virtue purges its armor. One characteristic is the exposure of the completely disheveled, hair-like cords that were attached to the armored parts. Light and excelling in mobility, it nimbly dodged attacks from Peiris' Taozi. It can use the Virtue's shoulder cannons as handheld weapons."

Wow, there goes the spoiler for ep. 10. -_- I shoudn't have read that. (I flag it spoiler, just in case.)

[LightningZERO]

Oops....sorry about that...I'm too excited that I forgot to put a spoiler tag

[dreamless]

Originally Posted by The Small One

Which makes me wonder how they get to their Gundams and then outside of the station.
I doubt they have public accessible airlocks in the space station, so shouldn't the pilots be kind of "trapped" once they are inside it? Or do they have someone who is helping them?

well, the CB seems to have their men in the high ranks of all the major countries of the world, so I'd guess there should be quite some people helping them everywhere.

Or maybe this :

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

My guess is that they put giant black glasses on the gundams, and nobody can see through that cunning disguise.

[Kinku]

i enjoy watching gundam series but seem like people in north america are not liking it anymore... wondering is it sill big in japan?

[4Tran]

Since Gundam 00 isn't technically available in North America, it's difficult to gauge its popularity there. However, a look at this forum and the fansub torrents will reveal that it's one of the most popular shows out there in terms of the number of viewers and the amount of discussion generated. The episode polls here also suggest that it's overwhelmingly popular; with roughly the same number of voters per episode.

It's a lot easier to gauge the popularity in Japan - Gundam 00's ratings hover around 5.0; which is just slightly below the popularity of Seed and Destiny. It's a great ranking as Seed and Destiny are the most popular Gundam TV shows of the last two decades.

Originally Posted by idofgrahf

I'm simply stating the facts and they are; in the past and even current Gundam shows, rank is not a big factor in who gets what,

Well, it's certainly something that I've noticed as well. While rank has been treated cavalierly in the past, perhaps they're going for a slightly more relevant feel.

Originally Posted by idofgrahf

As for the servicing of MS's, considering that they were able to equipt the Gundams with additional weapons on the ground, I see little differicultly in them servicing them on the ground, if anything, it seems the Ptolemy is dependent on the Gundam than the other way around.

Yes and no. The upgrades on the Gundams on the ground are apparently nowhere nearly as extensive as they are aboard Ptolemaios. Besides, there really isn't anything keeping them from trying to escape to Earth aside from their belief that they can win.

[SonicX_Zero]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

My guess is that they put giant black glasses on the gundams, and nobody can see through that cunning disguise.

LOL OMG thats it! That has got to be the reason. xDDDDDD

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

My guess is that they put giant black glasses on the gundams, and nobody can see through that cunning disguise.

You mean turn them into Ganmen?

[Demongod86]

Originally Posted by Ascaloth

In other words, that poster just gave away the plot for Episode 10. ( -_-")

So whoever said that virtue is so fat that it hides the GN004 was right!

[Papaya]

Originally Posted by Demongod86

So whoever said that virtue is so fat that it hides the GN004 was right!

Me me me me! Winnar!

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by Papaya

Me me me me! Winnar!

I tip my hat to you then sir, you know your Mecha writing.

[Mgz]

Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles

Apparently only HRL has the resources (which doesn't make sense considering how big AEU and Union are) to make such a communication device.

oh well the HRL can masssssssssssssssss produce those things for cheap from Chinese factories for like 5cents/piece while in the US and Europe you have to pay minimum wage at least, and then taxes, union, etc which make stuff prohibitedly expensive

just an example, back then RFID tag was like 10-15$ a piece @_@ , so people only use it to track huge shipment/container, etc...but now RFID tag is like 5 cents/piece and Metro/Walmart can tag everything from the 4000$ HDTV to the 50 cents gum.

[Dean_the_Young]

Originally Posted by Mgz

oh well the HRL can masssssssssssssssss produce those things for cheap from Chinese factories for like 5cents/piece while in the US and Europe you have to pay minimum wage at least, and then taxes, union, etc which make stuff prohibitedly expensive

Just to nitpick, it would probably be Indian factories. China is facing a population decline while India is going to surpass China in the next two or three decades, and Indian manufacturing is already more efficient than Chinese. China just gets more press coverage for it's complete embracal of raw capitalism, while India shows more social democratic restraint.

[Kaioshin Sama]

I did it, and on the eve before the next episode airs. Gundam 00 Episode 09 is Up

One thing I'm curious about that I turned over as a sidethought to how Christina likely ended up in CB, and I don't know if anyone has proposed this already, is if the "Red Tech Space" as someone called it, that Tieria was in in episode 01 was this Veda computer we've heard about.