speculation on how naruto will end

[OtseisRagnarok]

Originally Posted by james0246

I don't mind Naruto dying in order to save Konoha (from a somehow released Kyuubi; froma future Akatsuki member; from a PMSing Sakura), but Naruto dying to save Sasuke...I'm sorry, but that doesn't make much sense to me.

Neither does his current obsession with bringing Sasuke back. I would say that this is quite plausible.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by OtseisRagnarok

Neither does his current obsession with bringing Sasuke back. I would say that this is quite plausible.

His obssession with bringing Sasuke back ties into Naruto's dream of becoming Hokage. Specifically, Naruto views the the title of Hokage as being the strongest shinobi that protects and helps all those he or she cares about. So, when Sasuke defected, it could be said that Naruto viewed the matter as being a case of Naruto failing to help Sasuke (if Naruto cannot save/help his own "brother", why would he ever think that he can help a village?). So, by 'saving' Sasuke, Naruto will have proved his idealogy concerning what it means to be a Hokage, and consequently be one step closer to achieving his dream.

[AuroraFlash]

Originally Posted by james0246

His obssession with bringing Sasuke back ties into Naruto's dream of becoming Hokage. Specifically, Naruto views the the title of Hokage as being the strongest shinobi that protects and helps all those he or she cares about. So, when Sasuke defected, it could be said that Naruto viewed the matter as being a case of Naruto failing to help Sasuke (if Naruto cannot save/help his own "brother", why would he ever think that he can help a village?). So, by 'saving' Sasuke, Naruto will have proved his idealogy concerning what it means to be a Hokage, and consequently be one step closer to achieving his dream.

Of course, everything I write here is based on wild speculations, so don't mark my words.

That's a nice interpretation and it obviously means the next step for both Sasuke and Naruto. I agree with you that bringing back Sasuke for Naruto is something he must do for a variety of reasons.
He made his lifetime promise, he wants to prove that he's worthy to become Hokage, he wants to keep up the bond between Sasuke and him, he wants to impress his generation, he wants to follow his way of the ninja and thus never give up, it's some kind of final examination for him and so on.

[Langus]

Originally Posted by james0246

Wouldn't this scenario fall under the constant complaint that Sasuke "receives" power-ups, etc. Specifically, wouldn't this just be another case of Sasuke getting a "Get out of Jail Free Card" when there is no reason for him to necessarily have such a card. There is an old saying, "You made your own bed, now lay in it" (or soemthing to that effect). Why should Naruto have to die just so Sasuke can feel better about himself?

I don't mind Naruto dying in order to save Konoha (from a somehow released Kyuubi; froma future Akatsuki member; from a PMSing Sakura), but Naruto dying to save Sasuke...I'm sorry, but that doesn't make much sense to me.

I'm sorry was that ramble your attempt to allude to comments you think I made in another thread? If so, you've confused my words with someone else's entirely. Hence why I'm choosing to ignore them.

I suppose the fact that Sasuke is the first friend Naruto ever had (in his words the first "connection" he ever made) means nothing at this point?

While bringing Sasuke back into the fold will certainly prove to Naruto he has what it takes to be Hokage, that is not his sole reason for wanting to bring Sasuke back to Konoha, nor is it the primary one.

Sasuke's "friendship" and the connection they have has always, and will continue to be, the driving force of Naruto's desire to bring him home. The reason he's getting stronger isn't so he can kill Sasuke. He doesn't want to defeat him that way. He only wants to be strong enough, equal enough in power to Sasuke, so that he gives him the time of day to listen.

The last time Naruto tried to stop Sasuke at the Valley of the End he was too weak and that was why Sasuke didn't listen (hence the constant flashbacks to the "you won't put a single scratch on my forehead protector" scene). Thus in Naruto's limited logic, he thinks that if he gets strong enough to overpower Sasuke he can force him to listen to reason.

Naruto will die to achieve this end. It will be his ultimate victory because it is the one thing that will force Sasuke to see past all his bitterness and hatred and spare Konoha. So yes, in the end Naruto will be dying to save Konoha. He will also be dying to save his friend and with that death he will achieve what he thinks is the ultimate role of Hokage.

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by Langus

Naruto will die to achieve this end. It will be his ultimate victory because it is the one thing that will force Sasuke to see past all his bitterness and hatred and spare Konoha. So yes, in the end Naruto will be dying to save Konoha. He will also be dying to save his friend and with that death he will achieve what he thinks is the ultimate role of Hokage.

That's a little bleak. Yondaime died, Sandaime died...

Spoiler:

... Jiraiya died. Kakashi, who knows? That student-sensei line (the one that best represents the "will of fire") would be ended with Naruto if he died. Technically, Sasuke also belongs to this line but he doesn't carry the same spirit as the others

Besides, I'm thinking if Gaara wasn't permanently killed off, Naruto isn't going to die either. Maybe if this was a seinen

[Langus]

Gaara only survived because of the sacrifice of one of the elders of Sand country. I somehow don't see the elders of Konoha making the same sacrifice to save Naruto. Who knows, I could be wrong though.

Bleak though it is, that ending seems the most realistic to me. It's bittersweet - Naruto gains everything he ever wanted and then spends the rest of eternity looking out for Konoha.

I'd be happy with it.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Langus

I'm sorry was that ramble your attempt to allude to comments you think I made in another thread? If so, you've confused my words with someone elses entirely. Hence why I'm choosing to ignore them.

I did not confuse anything. I mentioned that a Sasuke-hater would dislike this ending, I never said anything to indicate that you were a Sasuke-hater. So, unless you have started to identify yourself as a Sasuke-hater, I am not sure why you are even addressing this point.

To clarify my initial point, though, both a Sasuke-hater and a Sasuke-lover would dislike your ending. Specifically, a Sasuke-hater would see the ending as yet another occurrence of Sasuke receiving an award even if he had done nothing to earn it, and a Sasuke-lover would dislike the ending because it would be yet another occurrence where Sasuke's decisions were made for him (this time, by Naruto of all people), rather than Sasuke deciding his own course of action (to give a brief example: Sasuke-lovers like the end of the VotE fight because Sasuke decided his own fate, but hate Madara's manipulation of Sasuke after the Itachi fight). So, no matter what, Sasuke (as an independent character) is screwed with your ending .

That being said, you must really love the ending of the X anime series to be pushing for the same ending to occur in Naruto .

Spoiler for Many Manga Spoilers...:

Originally Posted by Langus

I suppose the fact that Sasuke is the first friend Naruto ever had (in his words the first "connection" he ever made) means nothing at this point?

Again, What? Did we have some previous conversation dealing with the symbolic nature of the relationship between Sasuke and Naruto. Otherwise, I am not sure why you think I am belittling or somehow refusing to admit that they had a firm "familial" relationship.

That being said, their rivalry has always been based around their friendship (a betterment of each other as well as themselves via competition, etc), so I see no real reason why Sasuke would kill Naruto, nor do I see a reason why Naruto would simply let himself die for Sasuke. In fact, there is ample evidence to suggest that Sasuke would die to save Naruto (judging by the fact that Sasuke's Amaterasu was ignited based on a memory of friendships created with Team 7), and not kill him. Added to that, is the symbolic significance of whatever Itachi gave Naruto, not to mention Ero-Senn1n's idea that Sasuke does not use Itachi's eyes (to gain EMS) due to the fact that Sasuke currently refuses to see Konoha in a good light. So, there is enough going on to sway Sasuke's opinions without Naruto needing to actually die.

Originally Posted by Langus

While bringing Sasuke back into the fold will certainly prove to Naruto he has what it takes to be Hokage, that is not his sole reason for wanting to bring Sasuke back to Konoha, nor is it the primary one.

Sasuke's "friendship" and the connection they have has always, and will continue to be, the driving force of Naruto's desire to bring him home. The reason he's getting stronger isn't so he can kill Sasuke. He doesn't want to defeat him that way. He only wants to be strong enough, equal enough in power to Sasuke, so that he gives him the time of day to listen.

The last time Naruto tried to stop Sasuke at the Valley of the End he was too weak and that was why Sasuke didn't listen (hence the constant flashbacks to the "you won't put a single scratch on my forehead protector" scene). Thus in Naruto's limited logic, he thinks that if he gets strong enough to overpower Sasuke he can force him to listen to reason.

Good ideas here, and I agree with almost everything, but why does any of this lead to Naruto dying? As you say, Naruto only has to be strong enough to force Sasuke to listen, and if Sasuke refuses to listen, then he has to be strong enough to defeat Sasuke. Where does Naruto dying come into play? Wouldn't Naruto dying simply prove Sasuke correct (many battles in a Shounen universe are battles of a person's existential beliefs; battles of ideologies in which the 'correct' ideology will defeat the 'incorrect' ideology (yes, a black and white universe), Naruto tip-toes around being outright black and white, but Konoha and its ideology (the "Will of Fire") is generally always seen as good, and whoever fights against Konoha (and their ideology) is seen as evil - and Naruto who represents the Will of Fire dying would not be helpful to Sasuke, it would simply confirm
Sasuke's opinions of himself, the Uchiha, and Konoha)? Also, wouldn't Naruto dying lead to the destruction of Konoha, seeing as how Naruto is, more or less, the only character that can immediately power-up enough to battle the heavy-hitters of Pain, Sasuke, and Madara?

You have to realize that Sasuke and Naruto fighting to the death only makes sense for a few instances in the series, and most of those instances have passed or are growing ever unlikely to occur. Specifically, there are only a few points in which they can fight to the death, and none of them really occur after the Akatsuki arc. Pain and Madara still have to be fought, and both characters have a past with their (presumed) expected opponents: Pain with Naruto and Madara with Sasuke. There are only a few legitimate storylines that can result from the current information we have concerning all of the characters and their various storylines. 1) Naruto defeats Pain and Madara, which would leave Sasuke for the end, but by this point, if Naruto had defeated Pain and Madara, Naruto would literally have to kill himself in order to let Sasuke win (much the same as Itachi killing himself to let Sasuke win); 2) Naruto defeats Pain, Sasuke (independent of Naruto, coming to his own conclusion) defeats Madara, but, since Sasuke decided to defeat Madara, that means that Sasuke had probably decided to side with Konoha (otherwise, why would he turn on Madara before the destruction of Konoha?), meaning that a future fight between Naruto and Sasuke would not be to the death (rather it would be S.cry.eD-esque); 3) Naruto defeats Pain, then Sasuke (who, presumably is not that far from Konoha) arrives and is also defeated Naruto (who shows him the "light"), then together they defeat Madara. And, of course, there is the possibility that Danzou and the elders will be destroyed by Tsunade or Naruto in order to purge Konoha of it "negative" aspects, in which case Sasuke has no real reason for seeking the destruction of Konoha.

No matter what, once the Akatsuki arc is over, unless Kishimoto extends the series to a Part III with Sasuke as the main villain, there is no real feasible way of juggling all the different current storylines so that they would result in a plausible encounter between Sasuke and Naruto that would lead to Naruto dying, but still have a 'happy' ending for Konoha. If there was only Sasuke to worry about, and Madara and Pain could be taken care of by others, then yes, I do agree that Sasuke and Naruto could fight to the death, with Naruto dying, and a "happy" future for Konoha occuring. But, since Pain and Madara have to be dealt with, I see no way for Sasuke and Naruto to have a fight the death that results in Naruto dying and Konoha surviving. They will still fight, but the stakes will not be life or death.

Originally Posted by Langus

Naruto will die to achieve this end. It will be his ultimate victory because it is the one thing that will force Sasuke to see past all his bitterness and hatred and spare Konoha. So yes, in the end Naruto will be dying to save Konoha. He will also be dying to save his friend and with that death he will achieve what he thinks is the ultimate role of Hokage.

Wouldn't this ending, though, make all the deaths of the men and women currently protecting Naruto, pointless? These people are dying so that Naruto (and the future generations that he represents) can lead the village to a better future. Not some symbolic leadership, as the idea of Naruto's face (carved into the mountainside) looking down on Konoha would imply, but an actual leadership. Because, if these people sacrificed themselves simply to let Naruto sacrifice himself in the near future (for a traitor to Konoha, at that), then, wow, their lives were truly worthless.

[Langus]

You make it seem as though I'm saying Naruto is on a suicide mission. He isn't.

He's also not going into this with the intention of dying for Sasuke or necessarily at Sasuke's hand. I didn't even say that Sasuke would be responsible for the killing blow.

What I DID say was that before the series is over, Naruto will die, his death will be what brings Sasuke back into the fold of Konoha (effectively saving Konoha) and that he will live on in the memories of those he left behind - achieving his greatest dream.

For me at least, from the tone of how Naruto has been written, its been fairly obvious since the beginning that Naruto's ultimate destiny is to die before the end of the series but it won't be death in vain. Through that death he will achieve all the things he wanted to in life and thus, he will die happy/satisfied and those who risked their lives to save his won't have been in vain either.

Isn't the ultimate fate of most Konoha shinobi to die out of their duty to protect Konoha? Why should Naruto be any different? Or any of the others for that matter? There is a reason why lasting relationships between shinobi are few and far between in Narutoverse and that's because all of the shinobi are soldiers - at any moment they are expected to put their life on the line for the sake of Konoha and they do (Asuma being a prime example of this philosophy being played out).

Ugh and again with the Sasuke. I can't say I agree with you. Sasuke won't gain much by Naruto's death, in fact, I would wager he'd be deeply affected by it. So I'm not sure where this idea of a "power up" is coming from. What power up?

Also, Sasuke haters would likely be somewhat satisfied knowing that Sasuke paid the ultimate price for his arrogance - the life of his best friend. In either case, it's a lose lose situation for Sasuke. He gains nothing, except maybe being allowed back into Konoha, and loses everything left that's important to him.

And for the record, I've never seen X so I haven't a clue what you're talking about.

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by Langus

For me at least, from the tone of how Naruto has been written, its been fairly obvious since the beginning that Naruto's ultimate destiny is to die before the end of the series but it won't be death in vain. Through that death he will achieve all the things he wanted to in life and thus, he will die happy/satisfied and those who risked their lives to save his won't have been in vain either.

Isn't the ultimate fate of most Konoha shinobi to die out of their duty to protect Konoha? Why should Naruto be any different? Or any of the others for that matter? There is a reason why lasting relationships between shinobi are few and far between in Narutoverse and that's because all of the shinobi are soldiers - at any moment they are expected to put their life on the line for the sake of Konoha and they do (Asuma being a prime example of this philosophy being played out).

Well yeah, sacrifice for the village has been one theme but there's also the further underlying theme of the "new generation" of shinobi that will soon inherit the world. That's why neither Neji and Chouji were killed despite the seriousness of their injuries in the Sasuke Rescue Arc. And that's why Gaara was brought back to life. Were any of these characters to die, it would be like their era was over before it even started. With Naruto being at the forefront of the new generation, I think the chances of him dying are pretty slim. Despite all the deaths, I still think the tone of the manga is still too optimistic to have the main character killed in his prime.

Also, Sasuke haters would likely be somewhat satisfied knowing that Sasuke paid the ultimate price for his arrogance - the life of his best friend. In either case, it's a lose lose situation for Sasuke. He gains nothing, except maybe being allowed back into Konoha, and loses everything left that's important to him.

You underestimate the power of anti-fandom. Sasuke-haters would scream out bloody murder that Sasuke was allowed to live while the main character was killed.

That being said, you must really love the ending of the X anime series to be pushing for the same ending to occur in Naruto

Yeah, I'm confused too. You aren't talking about Samurai X i.e. Rurouni Kenshin are you? I mean the hero dies at the end of that anime (in epilogue OVA), though not in battle.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Langus

You make it seem as though I'm saying Naruto is on a suicide mission. He isn't.

Um, I am not the one predicting Naruto's death at every turn. If you are constantly predicting his death, pardon me for thinking you are, more or less, assigning Naruto a suicide mission.

Originally Posted by Langus

He's also not going into this with the intention of dying for Sasuke or necessarily at Sasuke's hand. I didn't even say that Sasuke would be responsible for the killing blow.

So...Naruto can die at an old age on his bed and that will be enough to 'convince' Sasuke?

Okay, even I will admit that statement is too silly/sarcastic .

So, Naruto is going to die in front of Sasuke, but Sasuke will have nothing to do with the death, and this will convince Sasuke that Naruto is correct. I can see no really story paths that could lead to such a situation that would then result in Naruto attaining his ideal of being/acting like a Hokage.

Specifically, if Sasuke is not the one killing Naruto, then it must be Madara or Danzou (since these are the only characters that would actually potentially kill Naruto) that kill Naruto (they probably tried to kill Sasuke, but Naruto intervened, taking the fatal blow). So, if it is Madara/Danzou killing Naruto which causes Sasuke to freak out and kill Madara/Danzou, then Naruto would not be seen as a hero, instead Sasuke would be seen as a hero, since he would be the one that actually killed the big bad. Added to that, since Naruto would not actively be convincing Sasuke that he is wrong (a Shounen battle is the same as a philosophical discussion concerning ideology), even if Naruto's death may be the thing that causes Sasuke to change, it is not something Naruto intended to do (i.e. Naruto didn't necessarily get to give his 'heart-to-heart' talk to Sasuke). Rather Naruto dying is such a circumstance would mean that Naruto failed as a Hokage (he did not defeat the big bad, nor did he actively convince Sasuke of anything, rather Sasuke was convinced becuase of Naruto's death, not Naruto). Sasuke and Naruto fighting against each other is the only way to "wake" Sasuke up, and currently I do not think there are any realistic storylines that would result in Naruto dying.

Originally Posted by Langus

What I DID say was that before the series is over, Naruto will die, his death will be what brings Sasuke back into the fold of Konoha (effectively saving Konoha) and that he will live on in the memories of those he left behind - achieving his greatest dream.

I also believe that Naruto will die before the series ends, That Naruto will sacrifice his life for Konoha, but I see no reason to think that it will Sasuke that kills him, or that he dies in order to save Sasuke. No sacrificial Konoha-nin death in the entire series has ever been to change someone's opinions, rather they have all been for the betterment of the future generation (Sarutobi-the village; Asuma-his team/the village; Chouza and the other Pain victims-Naruto and the village), not the betterment of just a singular individual.

That being said, Naruto identified his greatest dream as becoming Hokage. Not acting like Hokage, not living life like a Hokage, but actually being a Hokage. So, I strongly doubt that Naruto would ever succumb to death before he had worn the old hat at least once .

Originally Posted by Langus

For me at least, from the tone of how Naruto has been written, it’s been fairly obvious since the beginning that Naruto's ultimate destiny is to die before the end of the series but it won't be death in vain. Through that death he will achieve all the things he wanted to in life and thus, he will die happy/satisfied and those who risked their lives to save his won't have been in vain either.

So, the only way that Naruto can be happy is if he died. This isn't Bleach, you don't get to enjoy your after-life. But, seriously, I am fine with Naruto dying, in fact I agree with you that Naruto will probably die, but I see no reason for Sasuke to be involved in any way shape or form with Naruto's death.

Originally Posted by Langus

And for the record, I've never seen X so I haven't a clue what you're talking about.

I would recommend seeing the anime (here is a link). It is fairly good, with some great character development, great fights, and lots of character death . I am a great fan of the ending which is similar to the ending you are subscribing to for Naruto.

[Langus]

... I didn't say he would be. I said it would impact him. Not going to repeat myself again.

Thanks for the link. I'll check it out for sure when I get the time.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Langus

... I didn't say he would be. I said it would impact him. Not going to repeat myself again.

Sasuke simply seeing Naruto again would impact him. Death need not be involved for anyone.

Originally Posted by Langus

Thanks for the link. I'll check it out for sure when I get the time.

It is a better anime than the shitty description provided in the link indicates. To add to the pedigree of the title, X is the flagship title for Clamp, the creators of such series as Cardcaptor Sakura and Code Geass (I'm sure the majority of animesuki posters have heard of at least Code Geass ).

[Langus]

Heard of it, watched a couple eps and thought it sucked hard (Code Geass that is). I'll give this other one a shot though.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Langus

Heard of it, watched a couple eps and thought it sucked hard (Code Geass that is). I'll give this other one a shot though.

I was never a big fan of Code Geass, either. X, if nothing else, is far more interesting of a series. Hopefully you will like it, but seeing the difference of opinion we have just within the realm of Naruto-fandom, who knows .

[Girl_who_cried_gnome]

Originally Posted by Komataguri

I wanna see a damn atom bomb [ or the jutsu equivilant of such ] blow up in the middle of Konoha, Eradicating the entire city and all of the Fire Country shinobi in one fell swoop.

*laughs*

i dont think that would be the end though

well... kishimoto seems to be a fan of character recycling in some aspects so....
i can see naruto finally being presented the title of Hokage and rejecting, thus achieving a title that becomes far greater a legacy.
then death! mwahahaha
...
....
....

[kk2extreme]

Here is my outline for the general ending, hope you guys like it

naruto's kyuubi got extracted, akatsuki win, sasuke betrays akatsuki soon after the ultimate weapon is done, and use his chakra to perform some jutsu similar to the revival techique for gaara, died because of that. Naruto escape, swear revenge and goes to hiding for some time. madara's spirit transfered to sasuke's body and combine the eyes from itachi and his old EMS, and become ultra hax sharingan, rule over the entire world in the shadow along with the other surviving members of Akatsuki. Some time passed, the rookie nine + friends - sasuke form a resistant group and challenge the enforcing group where Akatsuki controls from the shadow, and win with a few key members die in the process. Naruto + friends form a new world order and restore the 5 great shinobi countries. While Akatsuki is still lurking in the shadow, while naruto + co continue to track down the movement of akatsuki. With little sucess, Akatsuki continue to cause destructions and despairs to the new world. Eventually, with great cause of many fallen allies, Naruto + friends found out the heart of Akatsuki, and form a special units consist of Naruto + friends to exterminate the Akatsuki once and for all. After series of bosses battles (individual Ak members ), most of naruto's friends are dead leaving only naruto and a few of his friends, Madara decents from the shadow and have a final confrontation, naruto and friends fights hard and somehow wins the battle with the rest dead. Akatsuki's based self destruct soon after and wipe out a huge area around it. People back home construct the stature in the memories of the heroes who save the world.

Somehow, kisame is alive and became rouge, and telling this story to some passing kids from his journey of the new shinobi world.

The End

[Mandrake]

It ends with Konoha in complete ruins, and needing to be rebuilt from scratch

[Wargumm1i]

I dont think Sasuke will ever return too Konoha, but I do think it that he will eventually make peace with Naruto and Konoha, but return never.

[OtseisRagnarok]

Originally Posted by Wargumm1i

I dont think Sasuke will ever return too Konoha, but I do think it that he will eventually make peach with Naruto and Konoha, but return never.

Delicious, delicious peach...
In all seriousness, I could see that.

[AuroraFlash]

Mmmh peach ^^ Isn't that Naruto's colour anyways? At least when Naruto gets a child with Sakura, it will definitely be peach ^^
So I wonder if Sasuke wants to make "peach" with Naruto... will it still be peach? xD

I think Naruto will become Hokage, Sasuke will never be happy, Sakura or Hinata will become Naruto's wife.. geez, I guess Hinata because she is more female and she always blushes... on the other hand, a guy like Shikamaru would take Sakura. I still wonder if Sakura is Naruto's sister. It would be possible. She looks almost the same and maybe she has been adopted, but Naruto was rejected because he was the Demon Kid and so on...