(CR) Legend of the Galactic Heroes remake

[Tenzen12]

If they were trying to be completely faithfull, they would keep ships designs, they also wouldn't put that scene you complain about in. Establishing Frederica as strong woman equal to any man hardly hurt her characterisation. LoGH didn't aged badly, but it still wouldn't work with just better animation alone.

[kuromitsu]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

If they were trying to be completely faithfull, they would keep ships designs, they also wouldn't put that scene you complain about in. Establishing Frederica as strong woman equal to any man hardly hurt her characterisation. LoGH didn't aged badly, but it still wouldn't work with just better animation alone.

Huh? The novel has no set ship designs, and the various adaptations during the years came up with their own mech/etc. designs, even in cases when they drew inspiration from Katou Naoyuki. Also, I'm really rolling my eyes at this being an idea of a "strong woman equal to any man". I mean really, a woman can't be a strong character unless she can beat up a guy? And the only way to show that is having her being harrassed by a guy? (Tastelessness aside, just how cliché is this?) Frederica is plenty strong without having to resort to a show of physical force. It should be apparent from the importance of the position she holds and the way the story goes later on. If they want to establish her as a strong female character or whatever then give her scenes where she's even more effective at her actual job, and can hold her own in what is her actual field of expertise and strength... and doesn't show some of the other iimportant characters in a bad light.

[Tenzen12]

Of course she doesn't need to be able beat guys to be strong person, but doing so is pretty simple and effective way to show she is (also you are making it sound like Frederica never used violence in original, which is not true).

As for being "harassed", well it would be weirder if she wasn't. Rosen Ritters are tough guys, every single of them has more testosteron then all boy bends on the world combined. That someone would try flirt was obvious from moment she set her feets into camp. It wouldn't be that different in RL either.

[Gan_HOPE326]

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

Finally got around watching the latest episode (I was interrupted before) and echoing others, what the hell was that Rosenritter introduction? Who thought it was necessary? Frederica doesn't need this sort of propping up, this is not her role. And it was equally showing the Rosenritter in a terrible light. They might be a rowdy bunch but they're not complete idiot meathead bros. Hell, if the writers want badass girls and rowdy fighters why not add some female Rosenritters, and be done with it, instead of doing this manufactured and pointless drama... taking up time that could have been better spent on other things.

Even without knowing them, I must admit I found them quite unbelievable. An Admiral with his assistant walks in, and the first thing they do is not even salute, ignore the Admiral, and begin sexually harassing the assistant? How have these people not been all court-martialed already ? Especially considering how they're Imperial defectors and refugees, and thus you'd expect them to be doubly careful not to get on anyone's bad side or give them good reason to doubt their loyalties... it was a very trope-y scene with little credibility.

[Cloudedmind]

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

It's such a bummer, his Kircheis was one of the few things I was genuinely looking forward to, I liked where his acting was going. I think if he had finished recording the staff would have announced it, but I think it's very likely that he's going to be replaced. Dammit. Poor guy, I hope he gets better soon. This is a pretty serious illness, and it's so unfair that he has to go on an indefinite hiatus right now when he's so busy and has so many main/lead roles. (He's in so many things I like, too!)

So many shows! Half the anime production studios and staff are probably scrambling to find a replacement for him. OK even saying half might be an exaggeration, but I doubt by much. It certainly feels like he has a role in ever other show. I rather like him as Pin in Tada Never Falls in Love, partly because he was finally getting to do something really different from his most recent roles.

Anyway to get back on topic, as someone who hasn't read the novels or watched the OVA's, I'm enjoying what I've seen so far. The scene with the Rosenritters did feel dated and cliche, but I won't be holding it against the show.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

Huh? The novel has no set ship designs, and the various adaptations during the years came up with their own mech/etc. designs, even in cases when they drew inspiration from Katou Naoyuki. Also, I'm really rolling my eyes at this being an idea of a "strong woman equal to any man". I mean really, a woman can't be a strong character unless she can beat up a guy? And the only way to show that is having her being harrassed by a guy? (Tastelessness aside, just how cliché is this?) Frederica is plenty strong without having to resort to a show of physical force. It should be apparent from the importance of the position she holds and the way the story goes later on. If they want to establish her as a strong female character or whatever then give her scenes where she's even more effective at her actual job, and can hold her own in what is her actual field of expertise and strength... and doesn't show some of the other iimportant characters in a bad light.

Yeah. Faithfulness aside, I agree that it wasn't a good moment for Frederica or the Rosenritters. Or even for the FPA navy in general, when added to the earlier scene of junior officers badmouthing a fleet commander without consequences.

[4th Dimension]

Originally Posted by Gan_HOPE326

Even without knowing them, I must admit I found them quite unbelievable. An Admiral with his assistant walks in, and the first thing they do is not even salute, ignore the Admiral, and begin sexually harassing the assistant? How have these people not been all court-martialed already ? Especially considering how they're Imperial defectors and refugees, and thus you'd expect them to be doubly careful not to get on anyone's bad side or give them good reason to doubt their loyalties... it was a very trope-y scene with little credibility.

Yeah. I don't know the original and I also found them tasteless and stupid. You might have a rivalry with another branch, but you DO NOT pull this kind of shit in front of someone so higher in rank than you. Someone who will be deciding into which meat grinder he will throw you. This is not a fight you can win. And it reflects bad on the unit AND on the commanding officer that he seemingly can't restrain his troops even with him present there.

[RDNexus]

While I did say before that I had no problem with that moment of the episode, now that you guys talked about the military hierarchy and stuff, I can see that the moment was handled poorly due to those reasons

[Tenzen12]

Ok, I guess it really could be pretty big issue. So I admit my mistake too.

[Heibi]

Originally Posted by Gan_HOPE326

Even without knowing them, I must admit I found them quite unbelievable. An Admiral with his assistant walks in, and the first thing they do is not even salute, ignore the Admiral, and begin sexually harassing the assistant? How have these people not been all court-martialed already ? Especially considering how they're Imperial defectors and refugees, and thus you'd expect them to be doubly careful not to get on anyone's bad side or give them good reason to doubt their loyalties... it was a very trope-y scene with little credibility.

The Rosenritter only respect strength. They show it to commanders who deserve it. They were testing Yang. They already knew who he was. As soon as Frederica surprised them they quit their play. Had Yang come in like some commander yelling at them and calling them disgraces and how they should be grateful they would have had their answer as to what kind of man Yang is. Instead he stood there and reasoned with them without raising his voice. Notice, they all showed the proper respect after the initial impression.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Heibi

The Rosenritter only respect strength. They show it to commanders who deserve it. They were testing Yang. They already knew who he was. As soon as Frederica surprised them they quit their play. Had Yang come in like some commander yelling at them and calling them disgraces and how they should be grateful they would have had their answer as to what kind of man Yang is. Instead he stood there and reasoned with them without raising his voice. Notice, they all showed the proper respect after the initial impression.

It's called being insubordinate. Assaulting a superior officer the way that goon did? It's a court martial worthy offense. Again, that does not speak well for the FPA military in general and the Rosenritters in particular that they're so undisciplined.

It might make sense in a Conan the Barbarian type setting for officers to need to prove their mettle in such a way, but not in what is ostensibly a modern army.

[Tenzen12]

Well, you would need rather tigh criteria to call it "assault" though as none of knight used violence. You would have much better case with sexuall harasshment.

[Gan_HOPE326]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

Well, you would need rather tigh criteria to call it "assault" though as none of knight used violence. You would have much better case with sexuall harasshment.

Yeah, though really, he laid a hand on her without permission, and that alone would have been quite enough. Mostly, I think it's also weird because we never got the impression that Yang is intrinsically looked down or considered a weakling unworthy of his position. He's fresh of an amazing last-moment rescue which prevented the complete destruction of an entire fleet. Eight years ago, he was called the hero of El Facil for his fundamental contribution in evacuating the planet. He doesn't have the reputation of someone you should just go and fuck with - if anything, I'd imagine people be underwhelmed after meeting him and seeing how meek and peaceful he is after building him up in their minds as some kind of indomitable warrior .

[BloodyKitty]

From what I heard from novel readers, the introduction of Rosen Ritter in the OVA and 2018 remake are both anime original, while the novel just goes straight to the conversation between Yang and Schonkopf. So yeah, the remake handled this badly. Even I think that scene was kinda unnecessary, and Yang having zero reaction to his subordinate being harassed is kinda weird too.

[John117xCortana]

Anyone get the feeling that Aya Endo playing the love interest of the main protagonist in this story is a reference to Macross Frontier? Especially when this year is the 10th anniversary of Macross Frontier?

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by John117xCortana

Anyone get the feeling that Aya Endo playing the love interest of the main protagonist in this story is a reference to Macross Frontier? Especially when this year is the 10th anniversary of Macross Frontier?

In that case, Yuuichi Nakamura would have been the one voicing Wen Li. If they wanted to play up that dynamics down to seiyuu level, I think they should have cast Maaya Sakamoto as Frederica, since her and Suzumura are married irl.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by John117xCortana

Anyone get the feeling that Aya Endo playing the love interest of the main protagonist in this story is a reference to Macross Frontier? Especially when this year is the 10th anniversary of Macross Frontier?

No, since she's a pretty active seiyuu. And Yang isn't the main protagonist, though I understand why you'd think that.

[Heibi]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

It's called being insubordinate. Assaulting a superior officer the way that goon did? It's a court martial worthy offense. Again, that does not speak well for the FPA military in general and the Rosenritters in particular that they're so undisciplined.

It might make sense in a Conan the Barbarian type setting for officers to need to prove their mettle in such a way, but not in what is ostensibly a modern army.

Insubordinate as it may have been, they wanted to see Yang's reaction. They are generally treated poorly and with suspicion by the general command structure in the FPA. Plus you can't use our standards of conduct in the military today as a comparison since writers tend to ignore consequences for the sake of writing. Federica made them knock it off pretty quickly. Her actions and Yang's calm reaction earned their trust.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Heibi

Insubordinate as it may have been, they wanted to see Yang's reaction. They are generally treated poorly and with suspicion by the general command structure in the FPA. Plus you can't use our standards of conduct in the military today as a comparison since writers tend to ignore consequences for the sake of writing. Jessica made them knock it off pretty quickly. Her actions and Yang's calm reaction earned their trust.

"The sake of writing" is meaningless. The point is, that scene didn't make them look badass, it didn't make them look downtrodden, it didn't make Yang cool and collected. It made them look like unreliable thugs with no place in a military and Yang like a helpless weakling. Jessica came out looking like an action girl, which could have been ok, if incredibly cliché... but too bad, because that's not what she is.

[drawr]

Wouldn't argue it's not insubordination but the locker room scene didn't seem that unrealistic to me, at least in regards to their reaction to a beautiful woman appearing. It's common in military up to modern times and other organizations for that kind of harassment to happen to women(hell, guys too) regardless of rank.