2008-01-01, 00:23 | Link #261 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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Well now, that's just a bit stupid on the part of several folks ... though it sounds like yet someone else who didn't check out the laws where he was moving to.... or something. (reads article)
Wow... update: he was just caught in a bit of a mess there because what was natural and customary in Pakistan isn't in Korea. Korea's law appears stricter than most for no apparently good reason. yeah, it might be a good idea to synchronize some of these laws ... but I have no idea how that might happen without tipping over a lot of sacred cows to many people.
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2008-01-01, 03:13 | Link #263 |
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Join Date: Jun 2007
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I think most of the stigma placed around incest is mostly because western culture has seen it in extreme cases, such as royalty or within small, secluded villages where the effects of imbreeding are more noticable. It was forced into practice so that there would be new blood getting entered into those groups to prevent it from happening.
There might have also been an economic aspect to it. In some cases, marriage within the family was the best solution since you didn't need to give land and wealth to anyone outside the family, or have any issues of lineage once the new couple produced an offspring. It may have even helped solidify bonds between family members since marriage was afterall primarily a partnership between two sets of parents. Condemning inter-family marriage might have been done primarily so that families couldn't just keep their property amongst their own children, but would have to trade with others. This meant that wealthy families would have to find other wealthy families to arrange marriages with or else have to share their wealth with those of lower families. All it would take is someone to convince the wealthy families that it is in their best interest to take in new stock using imbreeding among animals as an example. Even wealthy people don't want idiot children. |
2008-01-01, 08:42 | Link #265 | |
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Australia
Age: 38
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For example, I am not thrilled by the idea of incest as I have a twin and to me the thought is distasteful. Yet I don't care how other people operate in their personal lives where either party is not being coerced/abused/taken advantage of (as a lot of cases of true incest are). IMHO I think the reason that incest (or implied incest) features in anime is due to its taboo status. Anime to me has always been a fairly liberal medium in terms of issues raised (however storylines with said issues are another kettle of fish altogether). I've always seen it as a moderately boundary pushing medium in terms of social issues. |
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2008-01-01, 11:36 | Link #266 | |
~ You're dead ^__^* ~
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Anyway I personally don't see how some can approve of "incest" only if the pair aren't directly blood related ie brother and sister. You either approve it or not, being blood related or not doesn't really change the fact that it happens. Why would anyone who approves of cousin relationship but not direct ones? They are basically the same with with a family member. Throwing in a nonblood related sibling - ie a family member being adopted who calls you onii chan doesn't change the fact that it isn't incest if they decide to have a relationship so I think that it is weird that people would say that is more acceptable than blood related relationships. You either approve or not imo. I personally wouldn't stick my nose in other people's business unless there is something wrong At the end of the day love is love.
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2008-01-01, 12:04 | Link #268 | |
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2008-01-01, 14:08 | Link #269 | |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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2008-01-01, 15:28 | Link #270 | ||
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Second, about an "incest" in an anime, I think I have not watched any anime positively portray an outright sibling love... (there are implicit ones, but that's just like yuri things, you can interpret them differently according to your own social and esthetic value. And of course, you can choose not to watch any anime you feel uncomfortable with. Also do not forget that in Japan, marriage between first cousins is legal and even to some extent preferred. Quote:
Second, actually marriage originated because it HELPED to increase the birth rate. It involves social evolution, and is a balance between different behavior strategies in sexual activities among both sexes of human being. |
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2008-01-01, 16:26 | Link #271 | |
Toyosaki Aki
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Join Date: Nov 2007
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Even in theory, marriage does not hinder birthrate. Males and Females are birthed in equal proportions. Theoretically, one male pairs with one female. They are only limited by the long gestation period.
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2008-01-01, 18:05 | Link #272 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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Actually, the studies don't show that everyone *came* from one couple.. .only that if you trace back through the genetic history we all have the same great-to-the-nth aunt and uncle way back there. Another tracing using a different path would show a different "common ancestor" if I understood the science.
"Species" is a fuzzy thing: fuzzy in start and end and fuzzy at the edges. Its just a convenience to organize a mess of organisms.
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2008-01-01, 19:08 | Link #273 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
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2) We all originally started from two humans. (there was no crossing of the line into "human" so to speak as we all originally started as human.) |
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2008-01-01, 20:50 | Link #274 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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Actually (and off-topic) ... that age of earth number is only believed by *some* christians. Many christian scholars don't subscribe to the "4000yrs" idea because the author of that computation had to make some really serious guesses and estimation to connect generations and ages to get his number. Also many christian scholars don't necessarily hold with the creation stories as anything other than metaphors or poetic descriptions. There's not a unified opinion on scripture (if there were, there wouldn't be hundreds of sects and divisions).
I won't debate the human origination stories as they are irrelevant to this discussion. Genetics, social custom, misinformation, loose definitions, and religious taboo tend to dominate the subject of "incest".
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2008-01-01, 20:54 | Link #275 | |
Aria Company
Join Date: Nov 2003
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Anyway, as to incest in anime, I say basicly what I said the first time this thread made its rounds. Forbidden love makes a great story. As forbidden love goes, you can't top incest, except perhaps yuri incest. In addition to the normal drama that comes from a romance, you get the added drama from the fact that she's the main character's sister or whatever. As for why we see more incest stories in anime than say US television doesn't have much to do with the taboo on incest itself. Rather, I believe it can be traced to a taboo of discussing taboos in pop culture. Basicly US TV studios don't want to risk offending anyone, so they will tend to stay away from topics such as that. This is mainly because the shows are intended to reach as wide an audience as possible. Anime, on the other hand is aimed at otaku for the most part. As such they don't have to worry as much about offending people and alienating a certain demographic. This gives a bit more freedom to explore taboo issues, though only a bit. In the end most cases of incest it turns out they aren't blood related. Sure there are some, but even in anime true incest is rare. Though personally I think it's just as much incest with an adopted sister as a blood related sister, but that's just my view.
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Last edited by Kamui4356; 2008-01-01 at 21:05. Reason: hit reply instead of preview, wasn't done yet. |
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2008-01-01, 21:05 | Link #276 | |
Gomen asobase desuwa!
Join Date: Nov 2003
Age: 43
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Pt. 1 http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm954863 Pt. 2 http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm971884 Pt. 3 http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm982841 Pt. 4 http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm982841 Pt. 5 http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm1043771 Last edited by kj1980; 2008-01-01 at 21:41. |
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2008-01-01, 21:06 | Link #277 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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Right, its the escapist nature of these works of fiction that appeals in many ways.
Many things in anime are really just unacceptable etiquette in Japan society all the way down to the impolite language forms often heard. Much of anime relies on the "edgy" without *actually* delving into incest -- "sister by marriage" or "first cousin but not raised near each other" or "childhood friend/cousin" and all the other permutations which don't amount to any significant genetic issues should there be later offspring. This is fantasy for the most part --- after all, one of the series I'm looking forward to involves a several hundred year old harvest goddess in the form of a wolf-girl-kami who befriends a medieval traveling merchant. Now that's fantasy
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2008-01-01, 21:18 | Link #278 | |
Toyosaki Aki
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Join Date: Nov 2007
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I don't think there is anything that defines the otaku demographic that would suggest more tolerance for incest. Sure, there is imoutou-moe, but those types of characters are almost never blood related and it refers more to a certain personality than the actual relationship. Koi Kaze is probably one of the only anime to ever deal heavily with a genuine brother-sister incestuous relationship. Not even Myself;Yourself would do more than imply it.
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2008-01-01, 21:32 | Link #279 | |
Not Enough Sleep
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: R'lyeh
Age: 48
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So if incest was back then for the 2nd generation of humanity, why is it unacceptable now?
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2008-01-01, 22:08 | Link #280 | |
勇者
Join Date: Dec 2006
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Age: 34
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Also on School Day, what Xellos wrote, that is really screwed up.
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