Aquarion Series: Genesis-to-EVOL Speculation/spoiler discussion thread

[cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by Winged_Memories

Well if we go by this theory I'd say it would have something to do with Alicia (possibly finding out what Mykage had planned)...therefore in a attempt to actually make his plans work though not then but later on...and this is why I find Zen and Mykage having no indication that Amata and Kagura should not meet.

yeah. Alicia likely left because she found out what Mikage had done. She went to take back what he had stolen from Amata but feel into a coma as a result from the journey.

Amata is the reincarnation but he isn't necessarily Apollo like Kagura is. Perhaps when Apollo died with the Aquarion he reabsorbed the wings of the sun from Aquarion. Amata was born almost a perfect reincarnation of Apollonius since he has both the soul as well as the wings of the sun returned to him. But by losing the Apollo portion of his soul he was only left with the wings of the sun since physically they were never Apollo's when he was alive.

Originally Posted by LastOrder

This could be possible, especially if its from Mykage. But, what reason would he have for doing that?

Would he be doing that because he hates Apollo? Or because he hates Alicia?

But either way, the fact that Amata has no smell, I keep suspecting that Mykage has something to do with it.

Mikage needs "Apollo" to find the original Aquarion. However he knows his reincarnation, Alicia's son, is well protected by Alicia and likely by Fudou as well so he can't get his hands on him. So he creates a second one.

Kagura was perfect in the sense that he had Apollo's memories and was physically very much like him. However he was imperfect though in the most important sense since he lacked the wings which was what Mikage needed.

He must have realized that Amata grows stronger whenever he is fighting Kagura, likely due to their their souls resonating with one another. So he's been spurning Kagura on with his "memories" of Silvie. The battles strengthen Amata's wings of the sun and he is forcing Kagura to improve as well. He might hope that one day Kagura or Amata could absorb the rest of the soul back into themselves and become a perfect Apollo which could possibly awaken Aquarion.

[miketyson]

I wasn't really joking with the "the reincarnations are the animals" theory, honestly...it's just that the case to be made for it is mostly "meta", and not yet based on much in-show evidence.

The meta-argument: one of the major challenges with a story based on reincarnated lovers like this one is that it'd be hard to balance out respect for the present day characters (e.g.: Amata-Mikono, etc.) with respect for the story mythology (Apollo-Sylvie, Apollonius-Celianne, etc.)...if the past-life shenanigans dominate it undermines the present-day scenario, and if the present-day scenario dominates it devalues the series mythology.

You *could* sidestep this difficulty if you were able to make the "reincarnation" somehow distinct from the present-day characters...and *that's* why I think having "Shu-Shu = Sylvie, Beastwolf! = Apollo" isn't as unlikely as it sounds at first. Other than the ridiculousness of being animals -- which, admittedly, is a bit much -- it'd offer a clean way to pay respect to the series mythology while allowing the current cast to (eventually) make their own choices.

A variant on this would be having Shu-Shu and Beastwolf! merely being the "reincarnated" part of Mikono and Kagura, respectively; Shu-Shu's apparent independence might be due to how Mikono is further distanced from her reincarnated identity compared to Kagura (who seemingly is actively trying to become "Apollon").

So that's it. It's still something that only really has meta-arguments in its favor at this time, but it does offer somewhat elegant solutions to some of the seemingly-looming plot issues.

[Vena]

There are so many call-backs to the last series for Kagura/Mikono, that I'm really not sure how they're going to go about twisting the story/expectations any more. The biggest, of course, is the whole smell thing as it was *effectively* the last exchange between Apollo/Sylvia and, ironically enough, the first exchange between Kagura/Mikono.

This is why I hate spoilers, they subvert logical thought and cause you to second guess Occam's Razor... but then I cannot help myself. Its like a drug.

Of course, if we apply Occam's Razor and take the spoilers in mind:

Spoiler for Sylvie Twist:

Kagura is Sylvie, Mikono is Apollon, and for some reason they flipped character traits from the original: Apollo's sense of smell, Sylvia's role of connecting everyone.



No wonder Kagura is such a tsun, he's reincarnated from a tsun.

[Winged_Memories]

Originally Posted by Vena

There are so many call-backs to the last series for Kagura/Mikono, that I'm really not sure how they're going to go about twisting the story/expectations any more. The biggest, of course, is the whole smell thing as it was *effectively* the last exchange between Apollo/Sylvia and, ironically enough, the first exchange between Kagura/Mikono.

This is why I hate spoilers, they subvert logical thought and cause you to second guess Occam's Razor... but then I cannot help myself. Its like a drug.

Of course, if we apply Occam's Razor and take the spoilers in mind:

Spoiler for Sylvie Twist:

Kagura is Sylvie, Mikono is Apollon, and for some reason they flipped character traits from the original: Apollo's sense of smell, Sylvia's role of connecting everyone.



No wonder Kagura is such a tsun, he's reincarnated from a tsun.

Well that was what I speculated at first that Mikono could possibly be Apollon because she had a scene with Amata and her position and pose imitated that of Apollon from the movie 'Skies of Aquaria' where he and Sylvie are reaching out to one another...but then again we don't know if the movie is TRUTH or just BASED ON the story from 12,000 years ago...but then there is another scene with Mikono and Zen and as Zen was talking the scene panned up towards Mikono having the Neo Deava building behind her look like wings...and she has the same coloured eyes as Apollon...even when the students + staff were watching skies of aquaria the scene where she and Amata were floating ironically placed them in the same position as Sylvie and Apollon (Sylvie position = Amata and Apollon position = Mikono) but then they swapped positions...so many possibilities

[miketyson]

I'll be surprised if scents actually are a way for Kagura to identify people's (past-life) identities...seems too straightforward. One possible twist would be that the smells just measure how much destiny/fate/whatever you have pushing on you (and something about the nature of that fate).

[Winged_Memories]

Originally Posted by miketyson

I'll be surprised if scents actually are a way for Kagura to identify people's (past-life) identities...seems too straightforward. One possible twist would be that the smells just measure how much destiny/fate/whatever you have pushing on you (and something about the nature of that fate).

Well if you put it that way then maybe the memories Mykage was forcing out of Kagura are his scent 'powers' amplified? I mean he did say Apollon's and Sylvie's memories sleeping inside of him (so I'm guessing he just doesn't have one person's memory but two??)...So I'm inclined to think that maybe pretty much all the main characters have the memories of Apollon and Sylvie because Mykage did say something about their love (or specifically Sylvie's love) being reborn countless times...so maybe they are actual memories but not Apollon's and Sylvie's memories and because Kagura smells this he wants it (or Mykage is trying to make him believe he wants it...thus making Kagura delusional...since Mykage never said anything about Kagura being THE ONE)...if Sylvie's memories are so sweet and blah blah like Mykage said then obviously anyone who pretty much SMELLS or rather remembers it, wants that TIMELESS LOVE or wants to believe it is theirs?

[mayumi]

i guess my inverted color theory wasn't liked that much even how the colors invert from the first series blue-red-green is pretty much our main triangle yellow-cyan-purple.

it is possible that mikono-zessica are both apollon and lets not forget silvia's fascination of her oni-sama. so it is likely that mikono-amata or amata-zessica are split souls.

the big twist would be ofcourse if amata is silvie, then the girls would have to be apollon. not enough silvie's for all of them so 2 of the apollon's will have to die.

[Zuul]

Spoiler for for length:

ＮＴ

ドヤ顔カグラに抱かれるミコノ、険しい顔のアマタと悲しい顔のゼシカ。背

景に三ツ星
ある程度バレ出てたけど、それ以外の部分
・カイエンが予知した絶望の「未来」もゼシカが鏡をとおしてみた「過去生

」らしき映像もミコノと結ばれる相手がカグラであることを示すがアマタ
は受け入れない
・命とは魂の躍動だ。守りたい奪いたい愛し合いたい、それぞれの胸に宿る

重いがこの宇宙に生のリズムを刻みつける
　茨の檻のようにからみつく運命にもがきながらも「今」を生きようとする

男女。

茅野・花澤対談より
・「ミコノは知らない間に男を転がすワルイ女だよ、フフフ」(岡田
・カグラをかばったことに対して「ミコノ自身自分のことがよくわからない

んです。”過去”からの関係があるので自分自身の感情じゃないところで

　　何かが反応するというか。もどかしくて苦しい。今後明かされていく部

分～」(茅野
・これからはモロイの時代が来ますよ！(茅野
・サザンカの協力な能力もわかるしね(花澤
・女子ならゼシカに感情移入しちゃうところがいっぱいあると思います(花
澤
・ミコノ×アマタ→手を取り合い、空に舞い上がる初恋
・ミコノ×カグラ→１万２千年の時を越えた禁断愛
・ゼシカ×アマタ→秘めた純情、諦められない片思い
・ユノハ×ジン→いたいけなロミオとジュリエット
・ＭＩＸ×アンディ→穴を埋め合う凸凹カップル

メディア

水着ミコノユノハ、一緒に遊んでもらいたい様子のカグラ
・ミコノ＋仲間たち＝絆・無限大　友情を強固にするのはきのこ力！？
・１４話で元気をもらったユノハが逆にミコノを励ますシーンも。その際の

シュシュの動きに注目
・シュシュのしぐさにはちゃんと意味がありミコノが相手に持つ感情に察知

しそれによって態度を変えている
・ミコノはゼシカがアマタに対する恋心にはまったく気づいてない
・ゼシカも実は色恋沙汰に慣れてないのでアマタとミコノの間に割り込もう

という意識が希薄
・朴念仁なアマタもゼシカの気持ちにまったく気づかずミコノ一直線(笑)
・このあやふやな関係が明らかになるのは１６話(山本
・ミコノの能力はきのこ力
・アンディは初めての男女機合体の相手はＭＩＸと決めている

ていうかＮＴに

「アマタ・ソラ
　自身をしばる過去や執念を捨て、新たな強さを得た。
　「太陽の翼」の生まれ変わりといわれ、
　カグラにも因縁のようなものを感じている」

PASH追加バレ

・アマタ、ミコノ、ゼシカの関係は16話が見どころ。16話以降、ゼシカの女
心はけっこう揺れ動く
・今後はミコノを挟んだアマタとカグラの攻防戦がポイント
・ミカゲの野望にアマタ、カグラ、ミコノ、ゼシカが関わっている
・ミカゲは前作の誰かとつながりのある人物
・1万2千年前にあったある出来事が、ミカゲの行動の鍵
・今後の注目は、地球とアステカの因果と、アマタと母親の再会
・ミカゲはアマタがアリシアに捨てられた理由を知っている
・前世で恋人でも、今生でも恋人にならなくちゃいけない法はない
・ジンの死はオーディションのときにすでに決まっていた

source

Translation please.

[mayumi]

for anyone who wishes to translate full PASH interview- it is in chinese

http://tieba.baidu.com/p/1513264576?pn=1

is that kagura or amata? it looks more like apollo. i really don't get why apollo can look the same but silvia/celiane can't?

[pingva]

mayumi, that's Kagura from Cayenne's "black wedding" vision. When they draw Kagura not in anime style his hair looks ginger. Since Kagura and Apollo looks similar and they are making cards for the old anime and the new one, it's a wise choice to choose something that links both anime.

[kuromitsu]

Originally Posted by Zuul

source

Translation please.

Right, since no-one else seems to want to do it...

1. I are ESL person, also I'm not infallible, also it's 1 AM here
2. I take no responsibility for any speculations based on these translations or anyone getting their hopes up (or down as the case might be)
3. neither for any shipper wank that might occur

Spoiler for With that said...:

Segment 1. (Newtype)

There was a spoiler picture of Kagura holding Mikono while looking all smug, Amata looking grim, Zessica looking sad, with three stars (the Orion?) in the background.
Others:
-Both Cayenne's vision of the "future" and Zessica's vision of the "past" point toward Mikono getting together with Kagura, but Amata is having none of that
-Life is the pulsing of souls. The feelings of wanting protect, to possess, to love carve the rhythm of life into the universe as men and women struggle against fate coiling around them like a cage made of briars. (my god, I love this sentence, I wish I could do it justice in English. XDDD Btw, O HAI ENDING PICTURE IMAGERY.)

From the Kayano x Hanazawa interview:
-"Mikono is a bad girl for manipulating guys without even noticing, hahaha" (by Okada why am I not surprised, she doesn't seem to like Mikono a lot, does she? )
-About protecting Kagura, Mikono doesn't quite understand herself. Since it's connected to her past life she thinks it was a reaction that didn't come from her own feelings. As we'll find out it bothers and saddens her. (by Kayano)
-Malloy's time will come. (by Kayano)
-We'll learn Sazanka's power (by Hanazawa, NB she makes a pun here that I'd rather not translate because I have no idea what she means)
-Female viewers will find that there's a lot about Zessica to emphatize with (by Hanazawa)
-Mikono x Amata -> first love where even holding hands can make you feel you're soaring in the sky
-Mikono x Kagura -> forbidden love crossing over 12000 years
-Zessica x Amata -> hidden pure feelings, one-sided love that you can't give up on
-Yunoha x Jin -> innocent Romeo & Juliet
-Mix x Andy -> a fitting couple that fills each other's holes (OH LOL)


Segment 2. (Pash)

That spread we already saw, with Yunoha & Mikono in swimsuits with Kagura seems like he wants to play together
-Mikono + the gang = bonds + infinity (? this is not clear, here)
-The power of mushrooms is to strengthen friendships (WHAT?)
-This time Yunoha will try to cheer up Mikono. Here note Shushu's behavior: Shushu senses Mikono's feelings and behaves accordingly
-Mikono has absolutely no idea that Zessica is in love with Amata
-Zessica is not used to this whole being in love thing, so she's not trying to wedge herself between Amata & Mikono
-Amata has no idea that Zessica is in love with him, he's dead set on Mikono
-ep 16 will reveal this ambivalent triangle (by Yamamoto)
-Mikono's power = the power of mushrooms (....wat, btw see above)
-Mix will be the first girl Andy does gattai with


Segment 3.
Moar Newtype:

"Amata Sora: He gained new power by casting away the past and the thoughts that bound him. He's believed to be the reincarnation of the Wings of the Sun, and feels something like a deep connection to Kagura."

Moar Pash:

-ep 16 will focus on the relationship between Amata, Mikono & Zessica. After ep 16 Zessica's heart will tremble greatly (not sure how to say this in English)
-From now on the main point will be the fight between Amata & Kagura over Mikono.
-Mykage's plans involve all the four main charas
-Mykage is connected to a certain someone from Genesis
-The key to Mykage's motivation is a certain incident 12000 years ago
-Mykage knows the reason why Alisia left Amata
-There's no rule saying that lovers in previous life must be lovers in this life
-Jin's death was already decided before auditions were held for him

[Arya]

Speaking of overlapping scenes, I just remembered the first episode, when during the first attack of the abductors the Apollon and Sylvie kissing statue fell over Amata and Mikono getting them caught under it. And straight afterward Amata releasing his power set them free.
They surely are enjoying them at giving us meaningful(less?) ambivalent scenes

[Arya]

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

Right, since no-one else seems to want to do it...

1. I are ESL person, also I'm not infallible, also it's 1 AM here
2. I take no responsibility for any speculations based on these translations or anyone getting their hopes up (or down as the case might be)
3. neither for any shipper wank that might occur

Well, even if you were not infallible, but I think you are really good at this, thanks for the hard work here.
It seems that they tried to not losing the balance over either sides. Even if some lines .. well, anyways I usually don't take this things in account so I keep sticking with my policy.

[miketyson]

Thanks again kuromitsu. FWIW -- and especially so, since I'm definitely pretty far below your level -- everything you did looks right to me (as English and as a translation), and you sure did do a *lot* here. Now I know what "男を転がす" means, that's where I switched from "I'll try translating" to "I'm just going to read these quietly" (especially given the rest of that sentence, , didn't want to go stirring up trouble if I wasn't 100% sure what it meant).

I kinda think Sazanka's power will be something along the lines of getting people's imaginations to run wild, but you certainly can't get anything like that just out of that pun. I also wonder *why* Okada seems to dislike Mikono so much (but seemingly no other characters the same way)...it's curious.

[Zaresh]

Originally Posted by mayumi

is that kagura or amata? it looks more like apollo. i really don't get why apollo can look the same but silvia/celiane can't?

Originally Posted by pingva

mayumi, that's Kagura from Cayenne's "black wedding" vision. When they draw Kagura not in anime style his hair looks ginger. Since Kagura and Apollo looks similar and they are making cards for the old anime and the new one, it's a wise choice to choose something that links both anime.

Really, he looks like Apollo to me. Even if Kagura is depicted as more ginger in concept art, his hair is still pretty reddish, not so carrot-like.

[kuromitsu]

Originally Posted by Arya

It seems that they tried to not losing the balance over either sides. Even if some lines .. well, anyways I usually don't take this things in account so I keep sticking with my policy.

Well, there's no way they'd drop any serious hints in such interviews and articles and spoil the show, so I think there's no point in speculating from these... (Frankly I just wanted to have a go at that magnificently melodramatic sentence.)

Originally Posted by miketyson

Now I know what "男を転がす" means, that's where I switched from "I'll try translating" to "I'm just going to read these quietly" (especially given the rest of that sentence, , didn't want to go stirring up trouble if I wasn't 100% sure what it meant).

Haha, I actually just came back to edit that, because rereading the whole thing I realized I accidentally left the wrong translation in... It's more like, she's "manipulating" the two men (at first I was in automatic mode so I skimmed over 転がす).

[Vena]

Mushrooms... I have no clue what's going on there.

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

Spoiler:

-Life is the pulsing of souls. The feelings of wanting protect, to possess, to love carve the rhythm of life into the universe as men and women struggle against fate coiling around them like a cage made of briars. (my god, I love this sentence, I wish I could do it justice in English. XDDD Btw, O HAI ENDING PICTURE IMAGERY.)

Spoiler:

Life is the pulsing of souls. The feelings of wanting to protect, posses, and love, carve out the rhythm of life into the universe as men and women struggle against fate's cage of briars coiling around them.

There was no reason for that but you're right that the line is awesome.

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

Spoiler:

-ep 16 will focus on the relationship between Amata, Mikono & Zessica. After ep 16 Zessica's heart will tremble greatly (not sure how to say this in English)

This one was a bit weird for some reason as my take on it was different...?

Spoiler for Translation talk... spoilers are obviously inside. Probably not the best place for shippers either.:

~ Ep. 16 will focus on the relationship between Amata, Mikono, and Zessica. After Ep. 16, Zessica's female (feminine) heart will tremble sweetly(?)/splendidly(?) (honestly the best cross over to English would likely be blissfully).

I may be getting my languages confused (forgive me, I spent the better part of the day reading German for some order shipments... and I know almost no German so there was much dictionary back-and-forths) but けっこう, when written in kana, is the adjective of nice/splendid/sweet. So けっこう揺れ動く, would literally be translated to English as a quiver of love. (Quiver is a good word, I think. Sweet tremble sounds odd.)

The other thing is *woman heart* or 女心, I would probably (as you can see above) write as feminine heart. (This makes plenty of sense with the above paragraph.)

Feel free to slap me with something I overlooked because it seems odd for our translations to be rather... different?

Aside: I still don't get this whole overcoming fate thing when it comes to Apollo/Sylvia since their so-called destined love that seem ripe for being overcome... was a terribly tragic one. If an outsider were to overcome it, there'd be a definite *bittersweet* ring to the whole thing because the lovers who'd promised to meet and finally share happiness never do... Overcoming fate can also be that they will, instead of being separated, finally do the above.

Bah.

[Winged_Memories]

Originally Posted by miketyson

Thanks again kuromitsu. FWIW -- and especially so, since I'm definitely pretty far below your level -- everything you did looks right to me (as English and as a translation), and you sure did do a *lot* here. Now I know what "男を転がす" means, that's where I switched from "I'll try translating" to "I'm just going to read these quietly" (especially given the rest of that sentence, , didn't want to go stirring up trouble if I wasn't 100% sure what it meant).

I kinda think Sazanka's power will be something along the lines of getting people's imaginations to run wild, but you certainly can't get anything like that just out of that pun. I also wonder *why* Okada seems to dislike Mikono so much (but seemingly no other characters the same way)...it's curious.

Maybe it's because she doesn't like the whole 'two-timing thing without noticing it?" It's probably frustrating that she has two guys that are in love with her and fails at resolving her feelings for either one of them (at this point in time) because A) past love you'll never forget and B) new love that's awakening new emotions...it's like saying your going out with a new guy but your still hung up on your ex...but maybe if Mikono gives her relationship with Amata a chance it will blossom into something more than what she had with Apollo previously (if we go by the above spoilers)...I mean if she does choose Amata then he pretty much has that 'special something' that Kagura didnt have.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

Right, since no-one else seems to want to do it...

1. I are ESL person, also I'm not infallible, also it's 1 AM here
2. I take no responsibility for any speculations based on these translations or anyone getting their hopes up (or down as the case might be)
3. neither for any shipper wank that might occur

Kuromitsu, you did a great job translating I'm happy that most of it coincide with my existing understanding and expectation of the show, I'm sad that Okada is being such a jerk to Mikono (or is this one of those 'hard love' kind of creators?!).

But most importantly... And this is going to sound bad, but I can't help laughing that they feel the need to include this-

-Jin's death was already decided before auditions were held for him

It's like saying, "THERE WAS NOTHING WE COULD DO ABOUT IT!!!"

[kuromitsu]

Originally Posted by Vena

Mushrooms... I have no clue what's going on there.

Fudou, most probably...

Originally Posted by Vena

This one was a bit weird for some reason as my take on it was different...?

Spoiler for Translation talk... spoilers are obviously inside. Probably not the best place for shippers either.:

~ Ep. 16 will focus on the relationship between Amata, Mikono, and Zessica. After Ep. 16, Zessica's female (feminine) heart will tremble sweetly(?)/splendidly(?) (honestly the best cross over to English would likely be blissfully).

I may be getting my languages confused (forgive me, I spent the better part of the day reading German for some order shipments... and I know almost no German so there was much dictionary back-and-forths) but けっこう, when written in kana, is the adjective of nice/splendid/sweet. So けっこう揺れ動く, would literally be translated to English as a quiver of love. (Quiver is a good word, I think. Sweet tremble sounds odd.)

The other thing is *woman heart* or 女心, I would probably (as you can see above) write as feminine heart. (This makes plenty of sense with the above paragraph.)

Spoiler for re: translation:

Nah, that's just me and my sucky English at 1 AM. (I'm not used to translating to English, which is why I'd rather not do it if native speakers are also available... but if there's a choice between me doing it and someone trying to decipher it with Google Translate, it might as well be me.) "Quiver" was the word I was looking for (I spent like ten minutes trying to remember it), and now I want to go and bang my head against a wall.

As for "kekkou" it's an, ah, qualifier? I think that's what it's called? It's just your regular "けっこう" or "結構." Her heart will quiver greatly. Re: "feminine heart" well, if I must translate it I would rather use "maiden's heart" (to keep the romantic overtones) or something like that, but in this context I thought "heart" was enough as a reference to her feelings of love, I mean I hoped no-one would think it referred to her having a heart attack or something... (But apparently it wasn't clear enough...)