AnimeSuki Forums

Shiroth · 2011-04-05, 13:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by roriconfan

And it was also a rumor it would cover all the Z show?

Well Buu appeared in a few promotional art for Kai, so a lot of people thought that would mean the Buu saga would be apart of Kai, though the fact reminds that it was never announced.

Still the most popular theory is that Kai was cancelled so a new upcoming series like Toriko could take over.

roriconfan · 2011-04-05, 16:05

Why would an underdog show replace Kai? Did something happen?

Kallen4life · 2011-04-05, 16:15

.. underdog ?

wingdarkness · 2011-04-05, 22:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by roriconfan

Why would an underdog show replace Kai? Did something happen?

The show is being sued or potentially being sued (right?), that's probably the most likely reason DBZ Kai ultimately got canned...Even in America where it's the highest rated cartoon on NickToons, they restarted from the beginning again after promoting the Android Saga for a month (I know this because my 6yr old nephew is accosting me to watch Japanese eps cuz he's tired of reruns), so using context clues I'm thinking the legal stuff is making people apprehensive...

I really enjoyed Kai's music, but why did the music guy have to steal something as obvious as the "The Terminator" music? He screwed the show, and push come to shove that's most likely a decent reason that Kai got canned in the end...I mean they were gonna have to change the entire sdtk again for Buu (Easier said then done especially when the point of Kai was to have a different feel than the original)...Funimation probably has licensing issues now (someone can correct me on that), but it seems like a bad stew bro...

SuperKnuckles · 2011-04-05, 23:19

Love how blatant the Terminator and Avatar rips are when watching that comparison video.

And it's a shame. We may never know if it would have fully shown the Buu saga (despite all the hate and inexplicable return of Goku, I loved it) if not for the music fiasco.

It's a real shame a show has to go down for the count for that reason if it was even partly the case.

Shiroth · 2011-04-05, 23:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by roriconfan

Why would an underdog show replace Kai? Did something happen?

A new series which would make more money with a younger audience. Plus Toriko is an awesome manga.

roriconfan · 2011-04-06, 02:23

Wait a second, now Kai got canceled because of some tune similarities and because Toriko will be more likable to the kids than Kai???

Kallen4life · 2011-04-06, 06:10

there's Terminatior music in Kai .. ? where ?

Ottocycle · 2011-04-06, 08:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by roriconfan

some tune similarities

I guess you haven't actually heard the comparisons between the copied tracks and their originals.

Quote:

Originally Posted by roriconfan

and because Toriko will be more likable to the kids than Kai???

Toriko is still running in Jump, still at 100-odd chapters, volumes are in print. New anime boosts Toriko manga sales further.

On the other hand, kids will begin to stop buying DB manga and DVDs because their older siblings have them, and there will be kids whose parents possess DB manga and DVDs as the generations move on. Time is taking its toll on Dragonball.

Vegard Aune · 2011-04-06, 08:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles

Love how blatant the Terminator and Avatar rips are when watching that comparison video.

And it's a shame. We may never know if it would have fully shown the Buu saga (despite all the hate and inexplicable return of Goku, I loved it) if not for the music fiasco.

It's a real shame a show has to go down for the count for that reason if it was even partly the case.

Considering how the end of the series was announced before this whole plagiarism lawsuit came up... I'm just gonna assume it was cancelled because of poor sales. Because while the series received consistently great ratings, (but then again, it aired back-to-back with one of the most popular anime ever, so of course it got good ratings) the merchandise and home-video releases were rather unsuccessful. The plagiarism-issue might have been the final nail in the coffin, (as in, I seriously doubt we'll ever see the Buu-arc "Kai-ified" after this whole thing) but even if this didn't happen, the show would have ended here anyway.

roriconfan · 2011-04-06, 12:00

They couldn't show Goku going SSJ3 so it was doomed anyway.

Shiroth · 2011-04-06, 12:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vegard Aune

Considering how the end of the series was announced before this whole plagiarism lawsuit came up... I'm just gonna assume it was cancelled because of poor sales. Because while the series received consistently great ratings, (but then again, it aired back-to-back with one of the most popular anime ever, so of course it got good ratings) the merchandise and home-video releases were rather unsuccessful. The plagiarism-issue might have been the final nail in the coffin, (as in, I seriously doubt we'll ever see the Buu-arc "Kai-ified" after this whole thing) but even if this didn't happen, the show would have ended here anyway.

If the plagiarism incident didn't happen, then at least the chances of seeing the Buu Saga in Kai form at a later date would have been an option. Now, not so much.

MushroomSamba · 2011-04-06, 13:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles

Love how blatant the Terminator and Avatar rips are when watching that comparison video.

And it's a shame. We may never know if it would have fully shown the Buu saga (despite all the hate and inexplicable return of Goku, I loved it) if not for the music fiasco.

It's a real shame a show has to go down for the count for that reason if it was even partly the case.

It's weird that I saw both those movies, but I didn't actually recognize the music lifts until I watched those comparison vids myself.

It's a shame that it happened, but I gotta admit, even if it's plagiarized work, it still sounded great and fit well with the show.

roriconfan · 2011-04-06, 13:37

So in order for this opening to be made...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKrSF...eature=related
... they got the rights first but in the case of Kai they didn't?

Ottocycle · 2011-04-06, 14:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by roriconfan

So in order for this opening to be made...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKrSF...eature=related
... they got the rights first but in the case of Kai they didn't?

Parody = Fair Use. Also insubstantial copying for purposes of highlighting = Fair Use.

Kuragehime made the viewers laugh at how the characters were inserted into classic movies. The viewers normally do not take the OP seriously given the nature of the show. Also, each movie got max 10 seconds of footage copied out of a 1.5 hour movie (I'm using general numbers here)

DBKai is not a parody. They used the music for srsbsns highlighting of fight scenes and to create tension which was the same as the initial intention of the original pieces that it copied from. Timewise the pieces' main repeating motif was copied, which usually accounts for more than half the piece.

Additionally, how obviously was the Kuragehime OP citing its sources, and did the DBKai music do the same?

I think it's clear which case is fair use and which one isn't.

wingdarkness · 2011-04-06, 23:56

Yeah I just finished Youtubing the scandal and damn

...

Ain't no way Kai can be saved now, I mean it's comical the level of thievery Yamamoto did...A smart a$$hole would steal some elements then add a few wrinkles to make it different, but this was straight up turning in internet term-papers for college classes...It's really a shame, because from what I gathered from youtube comments and vids is that the Home-releases and all the current episodes airing on American TV are in jeopardy at this point (CW's Toonzai block has already begun editing music from various Kai eps)....

Furthermore no matter what happens Kai has been tainted, and what was really a special and nostalgic rendition of a show we all loved, it's now subject to getting redone again with a mishmash of musical scores certain to destroy the atmosphere, feel, and integrity the show originally established (even if it was stolen music)...Kinda sucks is all...

MushroomSamba · 2011-04-07, 10:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

Furthermore no matter what happens Kai has been tainted, and what was really a special and nostalgic rendition of a show we all loved, it's now subject to getting redone again with a mishmash of musical scores certain to destroy the atmosphere, feel, and integrity the show originally established (even if it was stolen music)...Kinda sucks is all...

Well, to be honest, I wonder if the average fan even knows about this whole debacle. I doubt it'll be remade yet again.

As for me, personally, it sucks that the music is plagiarized, but it really has no affect on my enjoyment on the series. I don't care that there's legal issues going on behind the scenes...that's for corporate suits to worry about. All I gotta do is sit here and enjoy aliens mashing up some androids (or cyborgs, whatever floats your boat) with some badass music in the background. Call it being ignorant, but life's too short to complain about things you can't control...just enjoy what you have.

roriconfan · 2011-04-07, 11:42

It's not like they can put some rock tunes as BGM like they did in the old american dub.

Shiroth · 2011-04-07, 12:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by roriconfan

It's not like they can put some rock tunes as BGM like they did in the old american dub.

Rock tunes? I don't remember Bruce Faulconer creating anything like that.

Ahiru77 · 2011-04-07, 13:04

^ Yeah he did some.

Like these:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nfk2uGGjAE0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRBm0LciSFg

Or am I mistaken ?

2011-04-05, 16:15	Link #3243
Kallen4life Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008	.. underdog ? __________________ When we hunt, we kill No one is safe Nothing is sacred We are Blackwatch We are the last line of defense We will burn our own to hold the red line, it is the last line to ever hold

2011-04-06, 06:10	Link #3248
Kallen4life Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008	there's Terminatior music in Kai .. ? where ? __________________ When we hunt, we kill No one is safe Nothing is sacred We are Blackwatch We are the last line of defense We will burn our own to hold the red line, it is the last line to ever hold

2011-04-06, 23:56	Link #3256
wingdarkness Retweet Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: ニュー・オーリンズ、LA	Yeah I just finished Youtubing the scandal and damn ... Ain't no way Kai can be saved now, I mean it's comical the level of thievery Yamamoto did...A smart a$$hole would steal some elements then add a few wrinkles to make it different, but this was straight up turning in internet term-papers for college classes...It's really a shame, because from what I gathered from youtube comments and vids is that the Home-releases and all the current episodes airing on American TV are in jeopardy at this point (CW's Toonzai block has already begun editing music from various Kai eps).... Furthermore no matter what happens Kai has been tainted, and what was really a special and nostalgic rendition of a show we all loved, it's now subject to getting redone again with a mishmash of musical scores certain to destroy the atmosphere, feel, and integrity the show originally established (even if it was stolen music)...Kinda sucks is all... __________________ Fly since ↔... Last edited by wingdarkness; 2011-04-07 at 00:10. Reason: syntaxation

2011-04-05, 16:05	Link #3242
roriconfan Banned Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Thessaloniki - Greece	Why would an underdog show replace Kai? Did something happen?

2011-04-05, 23:19	Link #3245
SuperKnuckles Anime Hobbyist Join Date: Dec 2004	Love how blatant the Terminator and Avatar rips are when watching that comparison video. And it's a shame. We may never know if it would have fully shown the Buu saga (despite all the hate and inexplicable return of Goku, I loved it) if not for the music fiasco. It's a real shame a show has to go down for the count for that reason if it was even partly the case.

2011-04-06, 02:23	Link #3247
roriconfan Banned Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Thessaloniki - Greece	Wait a second, now Kai got canceled because of some tune similarities and because Toriko will be more likable to the kids than Kai???

2011-04-06, 12:00	Link #3251
roriconfan Banned Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Thessaloniki - Greece	They couldn't show Goku going SSJ3 so it was doomed anyway.

2011-04-06, 13:37	Link #3254
roriconfan Banned Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Thessaloniki - Greece	So in order for this opening to be made... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKrSF...eature=related ... they got the rights first but in the case of Kai they didn't?

2011-04-07, 11:42	Link #3258
roriconfan Banned Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Thessaloniki - Greece	It's not like they can put some rock tunes as BGM like they did in the old american dub.

2011-04-07, 13:04	Link #3260
Ahiru77 あひる Join Date: Feb 2007	^ Yeah he did some. Like these: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nfk2uGGjAE0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRBm0LciSFg Or am I mistaken ?