AnimeSuki Forums

Roger Rambo · 2012-03-30, 13:33

Not to nitpick to much, but if the bow guns tend to be the same size as the turreted ones...wouldn't it be a smarter idea to scratch the bow guns and redesign the front of the ships so that all the big guns can fire forwards?

You know, minimize the profile you expose to Gamilon death lasers?

Maybe at least with the Torpedo destroyer, since the torpedos are already facing the front.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Space Battleship Yamato is herself 333m long these days (or the length of a Nimitz-class Carrier)

Maybe they wanted to make some room for all those space fighters.

Ithekro · 2012-03-30, 13:47

I'm guessing the bow gun is to makeup for a barrel of the turrets being blocked by fins on the bow.

I would have thought the bow gun would be larger (mini-wave motion gun like thing). At least on the cruisers and battleships.

The destroyer? Could be extra guns. The lower hull might only block one barrel, so they get an extra barrel forwards verses broadsides.

These ships seems like there are 25 or so years old at the Battle of Pluto. That means they have been fighting the Gamilons a while now. That these are all that is left means that either these designs were the best Earth could do verse the Gamilons, mass production meant no time to change things, or the "good" ships have already been destroyed in the war, and this is what's left to work with.

Sort of like if Japan had refit the pre-dreadnought Mikasa for World War II and sent her out to fight the American Fleet. Or an actual battle with the Fuso and any older Japanese cruisers and destroyers verse American ships during that war.

In a real world perspective on the UNCF (United Nations Cosmo Forces?),
or the pre-EDF ships:

Yamato is now the length of a modern American Nimitz-class Aircraft Carrier

The Fleet Flagship is the length of the World War One era Japanese Battleship Fuso
(or the 1930s built Mogami-class heavy cruisers)

The new Cruiser type is slightly longer than a late World War One era Japanese
Light Cruiser (Tenryu-class).

And the Torpedo Destroyer is the length of a World War One era Japanese
destroyer (Kaba-class)

(The Gamilon S Type Battleship is 8 meters longer than the Nuclear Aircraft Carrier
USS Enterprise, which is the longest warship in the real world)

Roger Rambo · 2012-03-30, 16:34

What kind of armaments are on the EDF fighters?

Ithekro · 2012-03-30, 17:31

The Cosmo Falcon (the old Black Tigers) have two nose mounted machine guns and six body mounted cannons (three on each side). Plus 8 internally carried missiles (anti-fighter or anti-ship). The design is a stealth type along the lines of the F-22 I suppose.

The Cosmo Zero has one nose cannons and four machine guns. It carries anti-ship or anti-fighter missiles on wing pylons. (the notes say because of its single engine is tends to turn left better than right). Also something about the upper fin having a barrier antenna that is suppose to be used to make a shield for a squadron of fighters.

The Cosmo Zero seems to be the older model fighter, or prehaps the older but more expensive squadron leader's figher due to the shield system. Or maybe it is the battleship carried fighter as oppose to the carrier fighter the Cosmo Falcon might be. The Cosmo Zero can fold up and is usually catapult launched while the other fighters just use the hanger bay.

There is not definate word of the size of these guns.

The old versions have 12.7 mm guns, 30 mm guns, and the Cosmo Zero's nose cannon was 26 cm for some reason.

Ekureiru · 2012-03-30, 17:44

I find it interesting, is there a chance that no one has mentioned that Hideaki Anno is in charge of storyboard for the new series?

Ithekro · 2012-03-30, 17:55

All I know is that he did the storyboard for the show's OP sequence. Other than that I don't know.

Roger Rambo · 2012-03-30, 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ithekro

The old versions have 12.7 mm guns, 30 mm guns, and the Cosmo Zero's nose cannon was 26 cm for some reason.

So what? It's got a siege mortar built into it's nose?

Ithekro · 2012-03-30, 18:22

Something like that. I guess it was either to make it useful against ground installation or the larger Gamilon warships that appear to be giving the Earth warships problems at range.

It is a little large compared to the big cannons they tried to mount on bombers for anti-tank duty and the anti-ship runs.

Ravenblitz · 2012-03-30, 18:31

Spoiler for Megami nsfw:

Roger Rambo · 2012-03-30, 18:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Something like that. I guess it was either to make it useful against ground installation or the larger Gamilon warships that appear to be giving the Earth warships problems at range.

It is a little large compared to the big cannons they tried to mount on bombers for anti-tank duty and the anti-ship runs.

Indeed. At that size you'd think it's just be more efficient to just load the aircraft up with heavy missles/rockets.

Just slap one of these outside of the hull, and let it fly.

Ithekro · 2012-03-30, 18:43

In the game, the Cosmo Zero has ammo for three "shots" (attacks) with that gun. It effectively make it worth four Cosmo Tiger IIs in an attack mission as it carries one Anti-fighter missile package and then three possible shots from the Nose Cannon (which can be fired at anything), with the Cosmo Tigers only have one missile package (anti-ship or anti-fighter).

It is considered a better fighter-bomber that the Cosmo Tiger II in most respects...(better than the old Cosmo Falcon in all respects. The new version might have hidden advantages over the 1974 version), but the newer Cosmo Tiger IIs are superior dogfighters with more wing and nose guns and thus a better space superiority fighter than the Cosmo Zero.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Also I think this it the first time Yamato's prime female has had an official swimsuit. Anchor still points to the right place.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

All this stuff makes me want to see things in action. And hope that everything is presented. I recall the the old Gamilon Battleship had a huge number of missile tubes....it never used any of them. The new version looks like it may have a few more tubes than the original.

Also notice that all the Gamilon warships have at least one underside turret. Even the one that couldn't possibly fire on the broadside due to their giant wings.

Roger Rambo · 2012-03-30, 19:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Also notice that all the Gamilon warships have at least one underside turret. Even the one that couldn't possibly fire on the broadside due to their giant wings.

Perhaps someone realized that people can attack you from below in space

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ithekro

I'm guessing the bow gun is to makeup for a barrel of the turrets being blocked by fins on the bow.

I would have thought the bow gun would be larger (mini-wave motion gun like thing). At least on the cruisers and battleships.

...why ARE there giant fins obstructing the turrets frontal firing arcs anyway?

Some kind of reaction-less steering system?

...I DID just notice something absolutely horrible about the Captains flag ship. It's got more backwards facing firepower than frontal facing firepower.

Yes. The Captains ship is more suited to retreating than attacking.

Ithekro · 2012-03-30, 20:40

Considering Gamilon tactics and that Earth ships are generally inferior at this point, having running fights would seem viable. Especially if the ship was originally designed to raid. You'd normally be spending your days running away from superior forces. 1920s and 1930s built German light cruisers were designed with more guns aft than forward, while French battlecruisers had all heavy weapons forward...as they figured they'd be the ones chasing those German warships)

Also one of the usual Gamilon tactics it to surround the enemy, thus massive weapons being able to point in about any direction would be viable.

(None of the turreted weapons seem like they can elevate to 90 degrees. I'd guess the Gamilon ports have better elevation than the Earth ships...but even then I wouldn't guess more than 45 degrees.)

Some later model Gamilon ships have even worse firing arcs with parts of the forward structure blocking all the centerline forward turrets from firing forward.

Even Andromeda has a problem with its aftermost turret. It can't realistically fire on the broadside because the fins on the engines are blocking the line of fire.

Remember that all Earth ships can operate in an atmosphere and that is one possible reason for all the fins and wings. (Or Matsumoto likes fins and wings to make things look futureistic and retro at the same time). Yamato and Aracdia have fins or wings all over the place.

ars89 · 2012-03-30, 22:12

I've never seen the originals, so i should probably see them before this right? Like will i be completely lost without seeing them?

Ithekro · 2012-03-30, 22:33

I don't know. It is suppose to be a remake of the first series. All 26 episodes.

It will be different in places, but the story "should" be the same. There shouldn't be a place to get lost if they more or less follow the story. The people making this are fans of the old show and people that worked on the later parts of the show when they were new to the business. (or children of people that worked on the show).

That said, you can watch the original 26 episodes if you want to. I'm pretty sure the episodes can be found one way or other. It is suppose to be the classic space opera of the 1970s. At the rate the OVAs are likely to come out, you will have time.

The main obvious difference is that there are more women in the cast now than before. I have no idea how that will play out or if it will change anything at all.

(...There are only 8 days left...)

August138 · 2012-03-31, 01:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ithekro

All I know is that he did the storyboard for the show's OP sequence. Other than that I don't know.

Although he was originally attached to direct several years ago, Anno only storyboarded the Opening Credits sequence — updating the original that and fellow Yamato fans love — and it was finished by Yutaka Izubuchi. At this time, it is unknown if Anno is going to further contribute to this series.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ars89

I've never seen the originals, so i should probably see them before this right? Like will i be completely lost without seeing them?

Not at all; it's being expressly made to bring new fans into the fold, but with the old fans also kept in the forefront. If you haven't seen any of it before, just watch this new version, so there will be no major story arc spoilers ruined.

August138 · 2012-03-31, 02:06

At the top left, we have the Hyzeraad-class Dreadnaught, which is an all-new Gamilas ship designed by Yutaka Izubuchi (who upgraded and designed all of the new Gamilas ships). Next, we have the Gaiperion-class Carrier (notice, four decks instead of three in the original series). Then, we have the Polmeria-class Heavy Attack Carrier. Next, is the DWG229 Merakan Combat Attack Plane. Lastly, there's the Gaideroul-class Battleship. (Of course, on the right is Leader Dessler and General Domel.)

On the left, we have the Destria-class Heavy Cruiser, the Kelcapia High-Speed Cruiser, and the Kuripitera-class Destroyer.

On the right is a size-comparison chart (duh). From top to bottom: Yamato, Gaideroul, Destria, Kelcapia, Kuripitera, Kirishima, Murasame, and Yukikaze.

Images courtesy of the Official Star Blazers Website. Hope this helps!

August138 · 2012-03-31, 02:25

As for the UNCF's combat planes, in the new series the Type-99 Cosmo Falcon is the older model than the Cosmo Zero. It was originally a land-based fighter, and were converted to ship-based when the development of the Cosmo Zero, designed as a ship-based fighter, fell behind.

TYPE-0 MODEL 52 SPACESHIP-BASED COMBAT FIGHTER (COSMO ZERO)

TYPE-99 SPACE COMBAT ATTACK FIGHTER (COSMO FALCON)

Images from the Official YAMATO: 2199 Website. Hope this helps!

ars89 · 2012-03-31, 07:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ithekro

I don't know. It is suppose to be a remake of the first series. All 26 episodes.

It will be different in places, but the story "should" be the same. There shouldn't be a place to get lost if they more or less follow the story. The people making this are fans of the old show and people that worked on the later parts of the show when they were new to the business. (or children of people that worked on the show).

That said, you can watch the original 26 episodes if you want to. I'm pretty sure the episodes can be found one way or other. It is suppose to be the classic space opera of the 1970s. At the rate the OVAs are likely to come out, you will have time.

The main obvious difference is that there are more women in the cast now than before. I have no idea how that will play out or if it will change anything at all.

(...There are only 8 days left...)

Quote:

Originally Posted by August138

Although he was originally attached to direct several years ago, Anno only storyboarded the Opening Credits sequence — updating the original that and fellow Yamato fans love — and it was finished by Yutaka Izubuchi. At this time, it is unknown if Anno is going to further contribute to this series.

Not at all; it's being expressly made to bring new fans into the fold, but with the old fans also kept in the forefront. If you haven't seen any of it before, just watch this new version, so there will be no major story arc spoilers ruined.

Ok sounds good. I'll go ahead and watch the new one and when i get time i'll go back and watch the original.

Roger Rambo · 2012-03-31, 11:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Considering Gamilon tactics and that Earth ships are generally inferior at this point, having running fights would seem viable. Especially if the ship was originally designed to raid. You'd normally be spending your days running away from superior forces. 1920s and 1930s built German light cruisers were designed with more guns aft than forward, while French battlecruisers had all heavy weapons forward...as they figured they'd be the ones chasing those German warships)

Except only the flagship has that rear turret configuration.

Maybe the idea was for everybody else to go kamikaze while the flagship escaped

Quote:

Originally Posted by ars89

I've never seen the originals, so i should probably see them before this right? Like will i be completely lost without seeing them?

This is a remake so I don't think that should be necessary. It's supposed to be a stand alone remake of the original.

2012-03-30, 13:47	Link #142
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	I'm guessing the bow gun is to makeup for a barrel of the turrets being blocked by fins on the bow. I would have thought the bow gun would be larger (mini-wave motion gun like thing). At least on the cruisers and battleships. The destroyer? Could be extra guns. The lower hull might only block one barrel, so they get an extra barrel forwards verses broadsides. These ships seems like there are 25 or so years old at the Battle of Pluto. That means they have been fighting the Gamilons a while now. That these are all that is left means that either these designs were the best Earth could do verse the Gamilons, mass production meant no time to change things, or the "good" ships have already been destroyed in the war, and this is what's left to work with. Sort of like if Japan had refit the pre-dreadnought Mikasa for World War II and sent her out to fight the American Fleet. Or an actual battle with the Fuso and any older Japanese cruisers and destroyers verse American ships during that war. In a real world perspective on the UNCF (United Nations Cosmo Forces?), or the pre-EDF ships: Yamato is now the length of a modern American Nimitz-class Aircraft Carrier The Fleet Flagship is the length of the World War One era Japanese Battleship Fuso (or the 1930s built Mogami-class heavy cruisers) The new Cruiser type is slightly longer than a late World War One era Japanese Light Cruiser (Tenryu-class). And the Torpedo Destroyer is the length of a World War One era Japanese destroyer (Kaba-class) (The Gamilon S Type Battleship is 8 meters longer than the Nuclear Aircraft Carrier USS Enterprise, which is the longest warship in the real world) __________________ Last edited by Ithekro; 2012-03-30 at 14:01.

2012-03-30, 16:34	Link #143
Roger Rambo Sensei, aishite imasu Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Hong Kong Shatterdome	What kind of armaments are on the EDF fighters? __________________ DEEP WITHIN A PARALLEL UNIVERSE WHERE GENESTEALERS ARE MADE OF F***ING RUBBER!

2012-03-30, 17:31	Link #144
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	The Cosmo Falcon (the old Black Tigers) have two nose mounted machine guns and six body mounted cannons (three on each side). Plus 8 internally carried missiles (anti-fighter or anti-ship). The design is a stealth type along the lines of the F-22 I suppose. The Cosmo Zero has one nose cannons and four machine guns. It carries anti-ship or anti-fighter missiles on wing pylons. (the notes say because of its single engine is tends to turn left better than right). Also something about the upper fin having a barrier antenna that is suppose to be used to make a shield for a squadron of fighters. The Cosmo Zero seems to be the older model fighter, or prehaps the older but more expensive squadron leader's figher due to the shield system. Or maybe it is the battleship carried fighter as oppose to the carrier fighter the Cosmo Falcon might be. The Cosmo Zero can fold up and is usually catapult launched while the other fighters just use the hanger bay. There is not definate word of the size of these guns. The old versions have 12.7 mm guns, 30 mm guns, and the Cosmo Zero's nose cannon was 26 cm for some reason. __________________

2012-03-30, 17:44	Link #145
Ekureiru 神さま、ありがとう！ Graphic Designer Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Luxembourg Age: 31	I find it interesting, is there a chance that no one has mentioned that Hideaki Anno is in charge of storyboard for the new series? __________________ † Ekureiru † - An entity commonly recognized by many as being on par with gods. Last.fm \| MyAnimeList \| Pettanko Fansubs \| Now with a degree in Yanderekology.

2012-03-30, 17:55	Link #146
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	All I know is that he did the storyboard for the show's OP sequence. Other than that I don't know. __________________

2012-03-30, 18:22	Link #148
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	Something like that. I guess it was either to make it useful against ground installation or the larger Gamilon warships that appear to be giving the Earth warships problems at range. It is a little large compared to the big cannons they tried to mount on bombers for anti-tank duty and the anti-ship runs. __________________

2012-03-30, 18:31	Link #149
Ravenblitz \|･ω･`) Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Getting there	Spoiler for Megami nsfw: __________________

2012-03-30, 18:43	Link #151
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	In the game, the Cosmo Zero has ammo for three "shots" (attacks) with that gun. It effectively make it worth four Cosmo Tiger IIs in an attack mission as it carries one Anti-fighter missile package and then three possible shots from the Nose Cannon (which can be fired at anything), with the Cosmo Tigers only have one missile package (anti-ship or anti-fighter). It is considered a better fighter-bomber that the Cosmo Tiger II in most respects...(better than the old Cosmo Falcon in all respects. The new version might have hidden advantages over the 1974 version), but the newer Cosmo Tiger IIs are superior dogfighters with more wing and nose guns and thus a better space superiority fighter than the Cosmo Zero. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Also I think this it the first time Yamato's prime female has had an official swimsuit. Anchor still points to the right place. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- All this stuff makes me want to see things in action. And hope that everything is presented. I recall the the old Gamilon Battleship had a huge number of missile tubes....it never used any of them. The new version looks like it may have a few more tubes than the original. Also notice that all the Gamilon warships have at least one underside turret. Even the one that couldn't possibly fire on the broadside due to their giant wings. __________________ Last edited by Ithekro; 2012-03-30 at 19:04.

2012-03-30, 20:40	Link #153
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	Considering Gamilon tactics and that Earth ships are generally inferior at this point, having running fights would seem viable. Especially if the ship was originally designed to raid. You'd normally be spending your days running away from superior forces. 1920s and 1930s built German light cruisers were designed with more guns aft than forward, while French battlecruisers had all heavy weapons forward...as they figured they'd be the ones chasing those German warships) Also one of the usual Gamilon tactics it to surround the enemy, thus massive weapons being able to point in about any direction would be viable. (None of the turreted weapons seem like they can elevate to 90 degrees. I'd guess the Gamilon ports have better elevation than the Earth ships...but even then I wouldn't guess more than 45 degrees.) Some later model Gamilon ships have even worse firing arcs with parts of the forward structure blocking all the centerline forward turrets from firing forward. Even Andromeda has a problem with its aftermost turret. It can't realistically fire on the broadside because the fins on the engines are blocking the line of fire. Remember that all Earth ships can operate in an atmosphere and that is one possible reason for all the fins and wings. (Or Matsumoto likes fins and wings to make things look futureistic and retro at the same time). Yamato and Aracdia have fins or wings all over the place. __________________

2012-03-30, 22:12	Link #154
ars89 One-Eyed Dragon Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: NJ, USA	I've never seen the originals, so i should probably see them before this right? Like will i be completely lost without seeing them? __________________ My Anime List

2012-03-30, 22:33	Link #155
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	I don't know. It is suppose to be a remake of the first series. All 26 episodes. It will be different in places, but the story "should" be the same. There shouldn't be a place to get lost if they more or less follow the story. The people making this are fans of the old show and people that worked on the later parts of the show when they were new to the business. (or children of people that worked on the show). That said, you can watch the original 26 episodes if you want to. I'm pretty sure the episodes can be found one way or other. It is suppose to be the classic space opera of the 1970s. At the rate the OVAs are likely to come out, you will have time. The main obvious difference is that there are more women in the cast now than before. I have no idea how that will play out or if it will change anything at all. (...There are only 8 days left...) __________________

2012-03-31, 02:06	Link #157
August138 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: San Francisco, California	At the top left, we have the Hyzeraad-class Dreadnaught, which is an all-new Gamilas ship designed by Yutaka Izubuchi (who upgraded and designed all of the new Gamilas ships). Next, we have the Gaiperion-class Carrier (notice, four decks instead of three in the original series). Then, we have the Polmeria-class Heavy Attack Carrier. Next, is the DWG229 Merakan Combat Attack Plane. Lastly, there's the Gaideroul-class Battleship. (Of course, on the right is Leader Dessler and General Domel.) On the left, we have the Destria-class Heavy Cruiser, the Kelcapia High-Speed Cruiser, and the Kuripitera-class Destroyer. On the right is a size-comparison chart (duh). From top to bottom: Yamato, Gaideroul, Destria, Kelcapia, Kuripitera, Kirishima, Murasame, and Yukikaze. Images courtesy of the Official Star Blazers Website. Hope this helps! __________________ August Ragone "The Good, The Bad, and Godzilla"

2012-03-31, 02:25	Link #158
August138 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: San Francisco, California	As for the UNCF's combat planes, in the new series the Type-99 Cosmo Falcon is the older model than the Cosmo Zero. It was originally a land-based fighter, and were converted to ship-based when the development of the Cosmo Zero, designed as a ship-based fighter, fell behind. TYPE-0 MODEL 52 SPACESHIP-BASED COMBAT FIGHTER (COSMO ZERO) TYPE-99 SPACE COMBAT ATTACK FIGHTER (COSMO FALCON) Images from the Official YAMATO: 2199 Website. Hope this helps! __________________ August Ragone "The Good, The Bad, and Godzilla"