AnimeSuki Forums

panzerfan · 2014-07-30, 06:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nemesis

Yes,you did,but it wasn't quite clear enough,you did say the i need not worry for my main fleet at the current difficulty of HQ 80+,yes,but then it never exactly answered:
"What about the highest difficulty after it?"

Sorry about this bit,it's just my tendency to want to confirm facts to be true rather than be left with a vague idea.I can't move forward without clearing up my doubts.

You shouldn't need to be spoonfed.

Nemesis · 2014-07-30, 06:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by panzerfan

You shouldn't need to be spoonfed.

*Shrug* Unfortunately there are just some kinds of people that need to be....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Also, a user guide is awfully biased by the writer perspective and can lead to very different result (the way how I and panzerfan play are nearly incompatible so to speak). I would say: hard facts (raw data about stats, damage formula etc) are all you need. After that, you have to compute that data yourself and draw your own conclusions. I'm not trying to sound elitist, it is really how I consider game comprehension in general: without your own perception of the game, merely following people advice won't lead anywhere on the long run. Information is king for succeeding in a game, but if you don't understand that information, it will bring other issues.

I don't fully agree.While the whole need for the user to comprehend the information itself is important,but that only applies and works if the game had sandbox scenarios for mistakes to be made without consequences,which Kancolle isn't really one.
Better prepared with some semblance of an idea,than none at all.

**Klashikari** · 2014-07-30, 07:13

Aside of sinking a ship, there is no mistake that lead to irreversible consequence especially if you grasped how the game works. Past tips given by other people, you have to learn the game mechanics which actually help you to understand the game, figure out if a given advice is pertinent or not, and avoid misinformation.
Those who merely follow people advices are often asking for more, literally spoonfed without understanding what they are actually doing (i.e learning that Kaga is the "best carrier" but failing to understand why, and putting a ryuusei on her biggest slot instead of a reppu).

Admirals also are able to prepare themselves properly for an event with mere description of it, because they actually know the strengths and weaknesses of kanmusu etc, and no damn guide can tell you what to do when it is about a new event, so you are using your knowledge, experience and common sense.
I wouldn't have finished the spring event within 2 days without that kind of understanding, and it isn't thanks to any guide.

Nemesis · 2014-07-30, 07:29

Event aside,this is in general of what i feel about the game.
I'll say this:You don't know what you don't know of.There's literally nothing you can do about ignorance.

I know it's common sense for any gamer to just plunge in and experiment themselves,cause that's how much more immersively faster it is.

I still stand by what i said.It's better to be told to do the right thing from the start.
Except,if you are aren't told why,then your guide isn't a good one,then.

And how the actual experience works,yes,still no amount of hard facts will tell you how the game plays like for each user.BUT,it's better for everyone to know how it works in all it's intricacy.

I had enough myself of this.Let it rest.I have cleared all my doubts for now.Time to get preparing for Midway.

risingstar3110 · 2014-07-30, 08:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nemesis

I still stand by what i said.It's better to be told to do the right thing from the start.
Except,if you are aren't told why,then your guide isn't a good one,then.

And how the actual experience works,yes,still no amount of hard facts will tell you how the game plays like for each user.BUT,it's better for everyone to know how it works in all it's intricacy.

I had enough myself of this.Let it rest.I have cleared all my doubts for now.Time to get preparing for Midway.

Also means the game has more depth than your usual one.

I can play most of the card collection games out there now without the need to read one word of guideline. Because it's so repetitive and shallow. Can't say the same to KanColle, and one of the main reason why the community is so "alive", despite lack of PvP, Guild, or competitiveness in nature

Also remember all those hidden stats? That plus the lack of actual information turned players to be superstitious ("what worked for me") and let players interpret things their way. Like the talks about how it's easier to get Kaga, with Akagi as flagship to "bait" her. Or I personally believe my Mutsu is secretly a boss-killer despite her luck, because she basically murdered the Spring E-5 boss by herself for me.

See it's not always fun to know everything

Nemesis · 2014-07-30, 08:21

I don't agree with that notion one bit,mate.
What you are mentioning is what the devs don't tell you,which is fine by me.

What i am talking about helpful advice/user made guides by players about the more hidden mechanics that are tested/confirmed to be working,but not spoken or written anywhere by any kind soul that knows it exists.

Indirectly,you are saying:"I got a trade secret that would benefit everyone and I'm being selfish by not sharing it!"

risingstar3110 · 2014-07-30, 08:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nemesis

I don't agree with that notion one bit,mate.
What you are mentioning is what the devs don't tell you,which is fine by me.

What i am talking about helpful advice/user made guides by players about the more hidden mechanics that are tested/confirmed to be working,but not spoken or written anywhere by any kind soul that knows it exists.

Indirectly,you are saying:"I got a trade secret that would benefit everyone and I'm being selfish by not sharing it!"

But the beauty of it, is you don't know that it was just by chance, or you being biased. Is it a valuable secret trade that only you know? Or are you just being superstitious?

Look away from the screen when check LSC (with immediate construction) gave me Taihou and Yamato for example. Yet to confirm, but it worked for me, so why not. Don't think many will take that seriously through

On the other hand, there is so few tested/ confirmed mechanisms that it took people months to confirm that night battle is safe, and fatigue won't result in sinking for example.

Lantern · 2014-07-30, 08:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by risingstar3110

Look away from the screen when check LSC (with immediate construction) gave me Taihou and Yamato for example.

Try bait Yamato with Yahagi.
It worked for me.

Nemesis · 2014-07-30, 08:40

*Sigh* Yeah,i kinda understand that sentiment........the mystery of RNG.Not knowing what exactly it will bring.

It's just that,at times,this game gives alot of doubts in decisions and results and it's not the ones you can't control or decide,but the ones you are able to make. That is what's strange.

Make no mistake,I'm no softie in gaming,the very fact i spared no effort to search everywhere about what i needed to know about the game is the proof i am dedicated enough to it.
I might seem a little obnoxious and crude here,but i don't mean anything bad.When i have to ask someone,it means i really tried hard at finding everywhere and can't find an answer.

risingstar3110 · 2014-07-30, 08:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lantern

Try bait Yamato with Yahagi.
It worked for me.

Think it will work the other way around?

Have a feeling that it gonna be *00:17:00* instead. Yamato attracts all sort of girls you know

Hopefully the event will be smooth sailing. Then i can burn all these spare resources on LSC

Lantern · 2014-07-30, 08:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by risingstar3110

Think it will work the other way around?

Hopefully the event will be smooth sailing. Then i can burn all these spare resources on LSC

Sometimes you just gotta let go of all reasons and BELIEVE!

Believe in the heart of the... oh wait wrong game

Make it happen! (after the event ofc)

p.s. I tried to bait Yamato with Maruyu before that. Apparently their yuri force ain't strong enough. pfft

Myssa Rei · 2014-07-30, 09:32

Bah, you people aren't even worrying about anything remotely important yet. I'm still trying to scrape together 20k ammo, and in my experience I'll need at least twice that much, given how unlucky I was during the Spring event.

Sheba · 2014-07-30, 10:02

My approach about the event is to tackle the maps I can and take it easy, because yolo lol. It's not like I have to fall on my sword if I fail to complete it. Right right?

Myssa Rei · 2014-07-30, 10:11

Well, you don't have to, but events are notorious for being rare drop bonanzas -- hence why many old hands want to blast through them early, then spend the rest of the time just farming nodes. And rushing maps burn up resources.

Really keen on seeing whether this event gives nodes that have the Cranes and bears again. Hopefully in the first three areas and NOT the "extra operation" areas.

Sheba · 2014-07-30, 10:52

I would love the Cranes. Because I have only three carriers. My fleet would love a little beef up.

Cyprene · 2014-07-30, 11:23

Quote:

*Sigh* Remember Cyprene saying there needs to be a guide,somewhat?

You are right,but sometimes knowing some very important facts of the game's workings may actually drastically change your decisions,this is partly a strategic game after all.
I don't want to end up making some foolish mistake just because i did not know something so crucial it's basic knowledge that is considered "common sense."

I'd kind of shelved that project, because I found a guide on the KanColle forums that didn't suck nearly as much as the others I'd seen. I haven't been playing nearly as long as the other people here, and the only advantage I have is that I can speak Japanese, and so I can pull information from the Japanese sites, which tend to be much more complete than the English ones. So honestly I'd been a little leery about writing a general FAQ because there's a lot of little stuff to get wrong. (For a long time I thought you could put midget subs on all light cruisers, for example.) But I'm thinking I do need to put together an FAQ about the event, because I keep seeing the same questions here over and over. I'll probably do that this afternoon, if only to stop the clutter in this thread.

**Klashikari** · 2014-07-30, 13:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nemesis

What i am talking about helpful advice/user made guides by players about the more hidden mechanics that are tested/confirmed to be working,but not spoken or written anywhere by any kind soul that knows it exists.

Indirectly,you are saying:"I got a trade secret that would benefit everyone and I'm being selfish by not sharing it!"

What are you even talking about?

Every damn data is supplemented and translated, albeit not as accurately as possible. How is that even selfish when you have a frigging FAQ available on the wikia and even damage formula which isn't really something that can be found without lots of testing.

Really, it is as if you think people are deliberately hiding information for sake of self importance and selfishness despite it isn't the case (the game doesn't involve any competition or PVP, so that argument is moot). Whereas I don't believe "read the wiki" is the most pleasant answer, it does force people to get the information and think a bit themselves. It is annoying to have questions related to things that could be concluded if one read the information already available. That's pretty much laziness from the party not making their damn homework.

One quick example: I often see people asking "what expeditions are best?" which is a annoyingly dumb question. First we don't know what that player need, then we don't know which expeditions they have unlocked already. Finally, the wikia has a complete chart with even ressource per hour gained, which blatantly tell the reader something like "Expedition 2 is the best for ammo".
Really, it is just like this: why people expect to have a guide where everything is at their disposal?

If it was back in october/november, I would understand since a lot of mechanics were unknown and needed discussions/debates/combined tests to find out X or Y thing. But right now, except few things that are left in the dark completely by the developers (such as inherent accuracy of every ships and cannons), the rest is pretty much available.

It isn't a matter of pride or anything, since I was basically in that situation in october, except that I actually did my homework and found out facts that basically gave me an understanding of what I have to do.
For instance, I merely checked few maps pages while I was still in 1-2, and I realized that 3-2 require a full fleet of DD, meaning that grinding DD will be required at some point. Doing this early would also mitigate the need to use bigger ships for world 1 and 2.
A lot of common sense "advices" could be found by people on their own, and it isn't like you need a guide for this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyprene

But I'm thinking I do need to put together an FAQ about the event, because I keep seeing the same questions here over and over. I'll probably do that this afternoon, if only to stop the clutter in this thread.

No offense, but with your questions as of late and complete absence of event experience, I really think you are threading with a very dangerous subject.

Putting a guide won't stop the thread cluttering because it will repeat itself for the next event if newcomers don't even bother checking basic information and core mechanics already available.
It is a cycling issue as long you don't press people to actually make some research first.

Really, the only things you need to know are:
*Ressources: what they are used for, how to gather/regenerate them
*Ships: what can do X class, what's the effect of X or Y stats, spreadsheet of each ship stats and their remodel level, how they can be dropped/crafted
*Equipment: how they can be crafted/received, effects of some specific equipment
*Battle: different stages of battle, stats involved in X or Y situation, conditions for victory, conditions for a sinking ship
*map: meaning of nodes

That's really all you need to know, and everything is available in that regard. For instance, the minisub page clearly indicate that only SS(V), CLT and AV can equip them.

By simply checking the faq, you have the common sense advices such as answers regarding ressources management etc. By checking the combat page, you know every step of battle and every quirks related to double attack setting etc. That also mean you have already learned important points such as 46cm very long range and AA property, formations effect, importance of avoiding ammo maelstrom etc.

In fact, I daresay the faq acts like a pretty in depth guide with links to relevant pages, and I really don't see what's missing there.
Events can't be guessed, but description alone is enough to give you an idea what you need, and players reports about past events should give already a rough estimation of how many ressources you need for a specific progression. That's really just that.

Cyprene · 2014-07-30, 14:34

Well, that's certainly fair. But is there a place that's collecting the kind of information that people would want to know? I.E. "The event begins on the 8th." "It's going to be a two front battle. No one is quite sure what this means but the devs have said so repeatedly." "It's going to emphasize air combat and carriers. Make sure you've got lots of Reppuus." or even extremely simple stuff like "Events are one-time only stages which offer unique and rare ships. If you don't participate you may lose out on a chance to get them forever." I'm not so much interested in what specific compositions or builds are best, since you're rightfully pointing out that this isn't a strength of mine.

If someone else with more experience with me is making this kind of stuff of available and I simply haven't found it, I'll gladly let them handle it. But I think there's a need for someone to collate this kind of stuff in one place, and as near as I can see nobody's doing it.

**Klashikari** · 2014-07-30, 14:49

What do you actually want to know aside it is midway? The update and event page of the wiki already points what we were told such as the date already.
Past that, there is nothing to assume since there is no definite data. You even claimed we need 2 fleets at once despite there is no relevant information about that, expect you took the "two fronts" literally instead of assuming we have 2 maps available at the same time instead of one. As for events... do you really need to know that a time limited event will have exclusive content? Frankly, simply browsing the wiki tells you that ships like Amatsukaze aren't available after their specific event until much later. Otherwise, why would it be a time limited in the first place?

There is absolutely no way to figure how your composition must be done since -it is not released yet-.
At best, we deduced we need planes and carriers simply because of the history references and the dev mentions, that's all. It isn't like we have a crystal ball to determine what we need for such task, and that's why it is asinine to immediately drop an event without even trying.
This is also why you need to have your own knowledge and experience of your fleet performance to know if you can handle a specific number of wo/nu class at the same time. Simply having "you need X reppu" is silly because that is not optimized for people who have a different CV setup and/or event goal.

Spring event was pretty much the same: we only heard about LOS, so we didn't know what we would need except ships like Tone, and no one would have expected to have a full SS map on E4, and a "double boss" node for E5.
So again, right now a guide is absolutely worthless past the fact we know roughly which historical battle it is supposed to be. And when informations regarding the maps are available, they will be on the event page as usual.

gecd · 2014-07-30, 16:09

always got Akagi from LSC
but today I got Akitsumaru!!!!
...
.....
.......
..........
what's the use of this ship?

2014-07-30, 07:13	Link #3283
Klashikari 阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180 Graphic Designer Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Belgium, Brussels Age: 37	Aside of sinking a ship, there is no mistake that lead to irreversible consequence especially if you grasped how the game works. Past tips given by other people, you have to learn the game mechanics which actually help you to understand the game, figure out if a given advice is pertinent or not, and avoid misinformation. Those who merely follow people advices are often asking for more, literally spoonfed without understanding what they are actually doing (i.e learning that Kaga is the "best carrier" but failing to understand why, and putting a ryuusei on her biggest slot instead of a reppu). Admirals also are able to prepare themselves properly for an event with mere description of it, because they actually know the strengths and weaknesses of kanmusu etc, and no damn guide can tell you what to do when it is about a new event, so you are using your knowledge, experience and common sense. I wouldn't have finished the spring event within 2 days without that kind of understanding, and it isn't thanks to any guide. __________________ [Sig art: Kagura Yuu, Nunukko, Maku Rako & Mishima Kurone] / [Twitter]

2014-07-30, 07:29	Link #3284
Nemesis Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006	Event aside,this is in general of what i feel about the game. I'll say this:You don't know what you don't know of.There's literally nothing you can do about ignorance. I know it's common sense for any gamer to just plunge in and experiment themselves,cause that's how much more immersively faster it is. I still stand by what i said.It's better to be told to do the right thing from the start. Except,if you are aren't told why,then your guide isn't a good one,then. And how the actual experience works,yes,still no amount of hard facts will tell you how the game plays like for each user.BUT,it's better for everyone to know how it works in all it's intricacy. I had enough myself of this.Let it rest.I have cleared all my doubts for now.Time to get preparing for Midway. Last edited by Nemesis; 2014-07-30 at 07:42.

2014-07-30, 09:32	Link #3292
Myssa Rei Moderate Haruhiist Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Metro Manila, Philippines Age: 42	Bah, you people aren't even worrying about anything remotely important yet. I'm still trying to scrape together 20k ammo, and in my experience I'll need at least twice that much, given how unlucky I was during the Spring event. __________________

2014-07-30, 10:11	Link #3294
Myssa Rei Moderate Haruhiist Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Metro Manila, Philippines Age: 42	Well, you don't *have* to, but events are notorious for being rare drop bonanzas -- hence why many old hands want to blast through them early, then spend the rest of the time just farming nodes. And rushing maps burn up resources. Really keen on seeing whether this event gives nodes that have the Cranes and bears again. Hopefully in the first three areas and NOT the "extra operation" areas. __________________

2014-07-30, 14:49	Link #3299
Klashikari 阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180 Graphic Designer Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Belgium, Brussels Age: 37	What do you actually want to know aside it is midway? The update and event page of the wiki already points what we were told such as the date already. Past that, there is nothing to assume since there is no definite data. You even claimed we need 2 fleets at once despite there is no relevant information about that, expect you took the "two fronts" literally instead of assuming we have 2 maps available at the same time instead of one. As for events... do you really need to know that a time limited event will have exclusive content? Frankly, simply browsing the wiki tells you that ships like Amatsukaze aren't available after their specific event until much later. Otherwise, why would it be a time limited in the first place? There is absolutely no way to figure how your composition must be done since -it is not released yet-. At best, we deduced we need planes and carriers simply because of the history references and the dev mentions, that's all. It isn't like we have a crystal ball to determine what we need for such task, and that's why it is asinine to immediately drop an event without even trying. This is also why you need to have your own knowledge and experience of your fleet performance to know if you can handle a specific number of wo/nu class at the same time. Simply having "you need X reppu" is silly because that is not optimized for people who have a different CV setup and/or event goal. Spring event was pretty much the same: we only heard about LOS, so we didn't know what we would need except ships like Tone, and no one would have expected to have a full SS map on E4, and a "double boss" node for E5. So again, right now a guide is absolutely worthless past the fact we know roughly which historical battle it is supposed to be. And when informations regarding the maps are available, they will be on the event page as usual. __________________ [Sig art: Kagura Yuu, Nunukko, Maku Rako & Mishima Kurone] / [Twitter] Last edited by Klashikari; 2014-07-30 at 15:18.

2014-07-30, 08:21	Link #3286
Nemesis Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006	I don't agree with that notion one bit,mate. What you are mentioning is what the devs don't tell you,which is fine by me. What i am talking about helpful advice/user made guides by players about the more hidden mechanics that are tested/confirmed to be working,but not spoken or written anywhere by any kind soul that knows it exists. Indirectly,you are saying:"I got a trade secret that would benefit everyone and I'm being selfish by not sharing it!"

2014-07-30, 08:40	Link #3289
Nemesis Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006	Sigh Yeah,i kinda understand that sentiment........the mystery of RNG.Not knowing what exactly it will bring. It's just that,at times,this game gives alot of doubts in decisions and results and it's not the ones you can't control or decide,but the ones you are able to make. That is what's strange. Make no mistake,I'm no softie in gaming,the very fact i spared no effort to search everywhere about what i needed to know about the game is the proof i am dedicated enough to it. I might seem a little obnoxious and crude here,but i don't mean anything bad.When i have to ask someone,it means i really tried hard at finding everywhere and can't find an answer.

2014-07-30, 10:02	Link #3293
Sheba RUN, YOU FOOLS! Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Formerly Iwakawa base and Chaldea. Now Teyvat, the Astral Express & the Outpost Age: 44	My approach about the event is to tackle the maps I can and take it easy, because yolo lol. It's not like I have to fall on my sword if I fail to complete it. Right right?

2014-07-30, 10:52	Link #3295
Sheba RUN, YOU FOOLS! Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Formerly Iwakawa base and Chaldea. Now Teyvat, the Astral Express & the Outpost Age: 44	I would love the Cranes. Because I have only three carriers. My fleet would love a little beef up.

2014-07-30, 14:34	Link #3298
Cyprene Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006	Well, that's certainly fair. But is there a place that's collecting the kind of information that people would want to know? I.E. "The event begins on the 8th." "It's going to be a two front battle. No one is quite sure what this means but the devs have said so repeatedly." "It's going to emphasize air combat and carriers. Make sure you've got lots of Reppuus." or even extremely simple stuff like "Events are one-time only stages which offer unique and rare ships. If you don't participate you may lose out on a chance to get them forever." I'm not so much interested in what specific compositions or builds are best, since you're rightfully pointing out that this isn't a strength of mine. If someone else with more experience with me is making this kind of stuff of available and I simply haven't found it, I'll gladly let them handle it. But I think there's a need for someone to collate this kind of stuff in one place, and as near as I can see nobody's doing it.

2014-07-30, 16:09	Link #3300
gecd Cah Gunungkidul Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Jogja Age: 35	always got Akagi from LSC but today I got Akitsumaru!!!! ... ..... ....... .......... what's the use of this ship? __________________ Wedang Jahe Kalengan, teman anda melewati malam yang dingin dan sepi! 0% alcohol, 80% ginger syrup, 10% love, 10% GALAU!!