Higurashi Episode 21 Discussion / Poll

[Rasuberi]

Originally Posted by kj1980

Someone should set up a site dedicated for Higurashi remake by Kyo-Ani. ww

賛成! 　KyoAniのほうはやっぱり見たい事なのです。
If only they would listen to our plea's, that is.

Ahh, other than knowing how good this episode should have been, and hearing about all the things left out... it was a good episode, other than animation inconsistancies. And on that case, I also saw the first DVD, and am happy to see that they did alter some of the animation... they have more work ahead of them though.

I wish they left things in that would have kept Shion somewhat loveable... *was looking forward to "Sorry for being born"* But no. >__>; TIPS, onegaishimasu?

And I will continue wishing for the day I can order the sound novel's...

[aliensporebomb]

I'm pretty sure that Satoshi isn't "demoned away". Theory?

Spoiler:

I have a guess regarding the fact that he got out of town quick
and is just fine. Like another poster said "probably has a pregnant
wife too." He's possibly staying away and biding his time and might
even return someday.

But, Shion, if she ever really wanted a relationship with this guy
she did everything wrong:

-Brutalize Satoko - real nice way to endear you to her protector, chump-girl.

-Become a psychotic murderer for no real reason - it won't bring Satoshi
back and he certainly won't have anything to do with a psycho murderer
if he does.

I think I've gone on long enough. Why did she grow so attached to him
in the first place? She had at most a few weeks of contact with the guy
and he certainly was a friend at best. Irrational. Years of abuse by
the Sonizaki family probably inspired her mental issues but it is almost
impossible to say.

Sigh.

Enough for now but I'll have more to say later. It's pretty obvious
the animation studio made some unpopular decisions regarding
this show - it seems that answers may not be forthcoming with
regard to certain situations. The most grievous of all: omissions
that serve to further confuse the already confusing plot, key lines
omitted, inappropriate music for certain spots.

Has anyone heard what the Japanese Otaku have said about this
show yet? If the gamers think the show stinks how will they have
a hope of attracting new players when the show is spotty and
confusing? I like the show, I just don't like it when shortcuts are
taken at the expense of quality.

[LuckyCat]

Wow after reading the explantions that some of you gamers have posted I'm really saddened by how they ended this, although it's good to know the game had a better ending in mind.

[imac2much]

Originally Posted by Sushi-Y

Who said I'm satisfied?

Spoiler for Satoko scene:

The one line I wanted to hear the most from Satoko during that scene was her final line,
「さぁいくらでも試してみろ！！　私は泣かない、涙も見せない！！！　北条沙都子がどれほどの強さを持つか 、試してみろおおぉおおぉお！！！」

Nope, it wasn't there. I fell in love with her with that line, and they cut it.

More importantly, that stupid ambient music really pissed me off. Way to ruin your own dramatic scene, Deen.

Mion's 1000 gomennasai was nice though. *sigh*

I'm really saddened that so much was left out. I really like the anime since I haven't played the game, but when I read the forums here I realize how much I'm actually missing out. Sushi-Y, can you translate that line in your spoiler post?

Spoiler for omitted info:

Also is there any other place I can learn more about what I'm missing, the important omissions and stuff (like I know they left out the history regarding Sonozaki family after WW2, some meat packing incident or something, etc... where do I actually get to read about this stuff? Or is it impossible for someone who can't read Japanese?)

[USCPharmacist]

Sushi-Y going Asplode? oh my gawd!!!

[BakaOnna]

Originally Posted by LostBlue

I haven't seen the EP yet, but OMG WTF!
THEY SKIP THE MONOLOUGE?! NO~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

THEY SKIP THE DOLL SCENE TOO?!

I'm going to cry now. They just skip my favorite scene in this entire arc. Well, at least Sushi-Y is somewhat satisfied over the Satoko scene so I guess not all is lost.

I'm hoping they did the monologue during K1's torture and Mion's 1,000 gomenasai pleas during the Satoko incident (that was so f'd up, Shion).

Spoiler for what I believe they skipped:

So, the confession monologue... this what Shion was doing through out it.
She was BS'ing most of it. She was seeing how far she can BS before K1 and Rena will figure out that she wasn't Mion. Even that last phone call to K1 the night beforehand. She slip somethings here and there to get K1 to realize that she was Shion. Obviously, she was extremely disappointed that they couldn't figure out the "game" (points to under his avatar). After the Satoko scene, Shion wanted to be stopped, she wanted to be caught, before she went completely mad.

The Doll scene
(well, this is part of the epilogue - I believe in the actual text the names are switched, b/c at this time Shion believes she's Mion but to keep it simple I keeping the names)

After she kills Mion and is "saved" by the police, the police try questioning her. But Shion faked being mentally unstable... at first. But eventually she starts hearing Mion's voice, arguing with her constantly. Mion won't leave her alone. Mion feels it's not fair for her to live when she died. Mion is waiting for her to die. So Shion thought she'll get the better of her. While arguing with Mion she sneaks out of her apartment (thinking Mion didn't realize that she had left), gets into Onibaba's car and drives to K1 house. When she first sees K1 she forgets her anger. But when K1 comes out of the house with the doll in his hand, she explodes. Mion is so unfair. K1 is still thinking of Mion. What does Shion have? Nothing. Shion goes back to her demented state and stabs K1 as she originally planned. Then she screams "I made it in time (before Mion killed me). I got my revenge (on Mion). I killed everyone I wanted (take that Mion!)" - the monologue there was something along those lines.

*sigh*

Oooooh, so that's the doll scene. Then it does make more sense, because I was wondering why the doll caused Shion's inner demon to awake. Now I get it. I remembered back in ep. 8 of Watanagashi-hen, Sushi-Y mentioned it and posted pics of it from the manga. It was so sad. But I can sort of see why Deen took out the doll scene. If they wanted to do the doll scene in this arc, they would've had to add it in Watanagashi-hen, or it won't seem parallel to the non-gamer watchers.

Anyway, this is the second episode in this series where I couldn't wait for the sub. I gave it an 8, even though it's more of an 7.5. The weird face animation is really getting annoying now.

But reading all these missing things, Deen screwed up big time. I think the main problem with this series is the length. Reading all these things, if the studio did add all this like the monologues, doll scene, etc., this series would end up being 52 episodes.

[kj1980]

Originally Posted by aliensporebomb

Has anyone heard what the Japanese Otaku have said about this
show yet? If the gamers think the show stinks how will they have
a hope of attracting new players when the show is spotty and
confusing? I like the show, I just don't like it when shortcuts are
taken at the expense of quality.

non-game playing otaku: "I don't get it"
game playing otaku: "Play the game"
non-game playing otaku: "OK"

[after playing the game]

formerly non-game playing otaku: "Now I get it! The game is 100x better!"
Repeat again.

If you think I'm kidding, no I'm not. This how the cycle works here. If you don't get it but still are interested, people will just go to their nearest doujin store and pick up a copy. Added to the fact that each of the copies are rather cheap (chump money), that's how the fandom grows.

Originally Posted by imac2much

Spoiler for omitted info:

Also is there any other place I can learn more about what I'm missing, the important omissions and stuff (like I know they left out the history regarding Sonozaki family after WW2, some meat packing incident or something, etc... where do I actually get to read about this stuff? Or is it impossible for someone who can't read Japanese?)

Read the spoiler: http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...1&postcount=81

Spoiler:

Basically, majority of the babblings there are all conjured up by Shion so it sounds feasible.

[Sushi-Y]

Originally Posted by imac2much

I'm really saddened that so much was left out. I really like the anime since I haven't played the game, but when I read the forums here I realize how much I'm actually missing out. Sushi-Y, can you translate that line in your spoiler post?

Spoiler:

「さぁいくらでも試してみろ！！　私は泣かない、涙も見せない！！！　北条沙都子がどれほどの 強さを持つか 、試してみろおおぉおおぉお！！！」

"Here, try all you want!! I won't cry, nor will I show any tears!!! You want to see just how strong Houjou Satoko is? Go ahead and tryyyy!!!"

The line was pretty much the final straw that broke Satoko free from the image of being a "crybaby". When she finally died, the gamers were given the impression that Satoko has went off to reunite with Satoshi because she has proven herself worthy.

Shion, on the other hand, was left behind, and will never be able to meet Satoshi again because she completely failed in keeping the one favor Satoshi asked of her before he disappeared: to take care of Satoko for him.

Originally Posted by kj1980

non-game playing otaku: "I don't get it"
game playing otaku: "Play the game"
non-game playing otaku: "OK"

[after playing the game]

formerly non-game playing otaku: "Now I get it! The game is 100x better!"
Repeat again.

If you think I'm kidding, no I'm not. This how the cycle works here. If you don't get it but still are interested, people will just go to their nearest doujin store and pick up a copy. Added to the fact that each of the copies are rather cheap (chump money), that's how the fandom grows.

It makes sense.

On the other hand, non-gamers don't have to play the game, and the anime will still be perfectly enjoyable for them.

The only losers here are the people who already played the game.

[theacefrehley]

Originally Posted by Sushi-Y

The only losers here are the people who already played the game.

I don't think so.
Even though I'm enjoying a lot the anime I feel kind of depressed when I know that so much is being left out...

But hey...
Don't hold back in telling it to us. I, particulary, appreciate it a lot! At least we get to know a little little bit more...

I prefer being sad but aware than a happy ignorant...

[sagematt]

Originally Posted by kj1980

Mediocre. I officially proclaim that Higurashi be remade by Kyo-Ani.
Someone should set up a site dedicated for Higurashi remake by Kyo-Ani. ww
If otakus can sway Kyo-Ani to do a Kanon remake, then it's possible...maybe.

Remake Kai at the very least!
This is 99.999999% a lost cause, but a man can dream...

Originally Posted by kj1980

For at least once, do the epilogue scenes rather than ending it abruptly. Where's Shion's dream? Or the heart-wrenching note of "I'm sorry for ever been born?" An addition of that with dai's you would made a better closure on Meakashi.

Right. After getting KAI soundtrack and hearing all those beautiful songs, that generic Kenji Kawai OST doesn't even compare to it (except for main theme, that's a pretty good tune, but I digress). We should also add that, for Kyo-Ani remake, every last episode of every chapter has a different ending tune (You being the one for Meakashi, of course ^^).

Originally Posted by kj1980

Much like Frederica's poem for Tsumihoroboshi, those over-used facial contortions are:
1st time, interesting
2nd time, it gets tiring
3rd time, it's just sick
and by the nth time, it loses its value to become a comical.

I was also very ticked off by it. This episode in particular had me already tired of those MUTHAFUCKIN' emo facial contortions on my MUTHAFUCKIN' Meakashi-hen!.

(Sorry, I just had to do it )

Originally Posted by kj1980

Five more episodes to go; how they can fit all of Tsumihoroboshi, I don't know.

I got very angry after I watched episode 20 and I was like WTF? This arc still hasn't ended? Are they even going to animate Tsumihoroshi at all?. I guess we can only pray to Oyashiro-sama

Originally Posted by kj1980

But if they screw up the ----------------, I will be very disappointed.

Deen, if you don't redeem yourself with that, I will never ever watch any other anime you make. And I will despise you to the very end of my existence.

[sagematt]

Hey, a quick announcement to Sushi-Y, kj1980, Rasuberi, and any other members who have had the bliss to play the visual novels:

Guys, please, not everyone on this forum can read japanese. I get very confused when you post a commentary or quote something in japanese without translating it for us. We are loyal fans to the series and, if it weren't because of the language barrier, we would all be commenting with you about it. But sometimes you just seem like a membership-only club (which only requisite is knowing japanese, but you all know that that is not an easy task)

I beg of you, fix that aspect (attaching a translation to the quotes, at the very least, that's not too much to ask). I'm counting on you guys ^^

[Keriaku]

I think that's because when they post something in japanese, it would otherwise be a spoiler, and it's something they're saying to the other game players. Not meant for us. >.>

[sagematt]

Not always. Meakashi-hen ended, what's there to spoil? Whatever Deen left out is not a spoiler.

Spoiler:

Actually, something similar happened on another forum I frequent, when Fate/Stay Night ended.

sage: Dude, I can't believe Deen left out that much of the story. And why the fsck did they animate a messed-up Fate instead of UBW?!?! Even the 2nd opening spoiled UBW and Heaven's Feel!

Member 1: Oh well, can you now tell us what was left out?

sage: Wouldn't that be spoiling it all?

Member 2: Not really. The show ended. They probably will not show anymore of it. What's there to spoil?

sage: ...True dat.

[BakaOnna]

Originally Posted by sagematt

Not always. Meakashi-hen ended, what's there to spoil? Whatever Deen left out is not a spoiler.

From what I've read and seen of ep. 21 already, lotsa stuff. Even though I think the anime is fine on its own, it's very sad how much they have to leave out.

[Altima of the Gates]

Okay. lets try to turn this away from the screams of agony from the game players/people who have talked with game players/people who have read spoilers/blah blah blah.
I seem to hear the same thing almost everytime we get a new ero-game/sound novel/doujin game to anime or novel to anime.

"Let Kyoto Animation do a remake" (Geez, people must think they have Mida's golden touch or something. Why not J.C. Staff?)

" 'X' scene wasn't here, let the infidels burn for this atrocity!!"

Listen. You will NEVER have the same experience you had when you first saw a scene, even if they remake it perfectly.

I've never played the game, and i'm having a lot of fun figuring things out, i may be a bit confuesd, but not enough for my enjoyment of the show ro be lessened.

Sorry if I was sounding rude or off-base, but this heckling is just too harsh sometimes.
I was browsing around and found these posts and felt the need to post this.

[Rasuberi]

Ahaha, me? Read the sound novels? I wish. Everyone should know by now that I'm often saying things like "I am now waiting for the day I can read the novel's even more" or something. I'm not too good with kanji but... once I can get my hands on the game... things would be set.

And whenever I type in Japanese for instance, it's something silly... that I just felt I wanted to say in Japanese. And I'm always looking for reason's to type in Japanese, like how my friend wants me to help this new exchange student at her school named Chiaki who isn't very good at english, but I'm getting pretty off topic now so...

I'll try to translate anything I say in Japanese now, in any case. I just easily forget that's all, but if it bothers other's, I'll try.

[sagematt]

Originally Posted by BakaOnna

From what I've read and seen of ep. 21 already, lotsa stuff. Even though I think the anime is fine on its own, it's very sad how much they have to leave out.

I think I didn't explain myself. It is a spoiler if it is something that you shouldn't know at that time, but if the arc has ended, whatever they left out should not be considered as a spoiler, since we are supposed to know it, it would be something that completes the story.

Example:

Spoiler for spoilers for Onikakushi, but if you are here you should know already:

Spoiler:

Rena_fan_337: Hey, I started watching Higurashi no Naku Koro ni, and so far I like it. I just watched episode 2.

sagematt: K1 kills Rena and Mion with Satoshi's baseball bat and then kills himself on a phone booth.

Rena_fan_337: WTF?!?!?! NOOOOOOO RENA-SAMAAAAAAAA!!!!

Not a spoiler:

Rena_fan_337: Wow, I have watched up to Watanagashi-hen and... wow. This has been one fucked up piece of sh*te, but of the INSANELY AWESOME kind.

sagematt: Hey, did you know that in the game K1 falls to many of the penalty games of their club? And one of those is wearing a meido uniform?

Rena_fan_337: Oh really? Awesome! Why did they left that out?!

[imac2much]

Um, I don't see any reason for you to be PISSED at sushi-y or kj if they say something in japanese and you can't understand it. Would it please you more if they just stopped posting entirely? You probably don't mean to sound this way, but your post almost makes it seem like it's their DUTY to inform you about things you don't know. My experience has shown me that being polite when you ask for something you want will provide better results. Again, maybe you don't mean to come off like that, but that's the tone of your post.

Not to sound like I'm kissing up, but thanks for everyone's clarification to my question, especially Sushi-y and kj. Keep in mind most everyone here appreciate your efforts to better inform those of us who haven't played the games.

[Rasuberi]

I completely agree imac... I don't know who I'm in love with more, Sushi-Y or kj. XD They've really gotten me to want to read the original higurashi... with all the mentionings of what's left out.

So, I'm really thankful to them, and other game players. Lost Blue is on my love-love list too. <3

[sagematt]

Originally Posted by Altima of the Gates

"Let Kyoto Animation do a remake" (Geez, people must think they have Mida's golden touch or something. Why not J.C. Staff?)

Aside from lots of Sonozaki melonpan, lots of Rena pantyshots and Satoko "longsockshots" (don't really know how to say that one ^^), and school swimsuit Rika most of the time, and some beach and onsen episodes, I don't think we are getting much on the other side (character development and stuff)...

No, wait
*re-reads what he just wrote*
Actually, JC Staff is not a bad choice after all

Originally Posted by Altima of the Gates

Listen. You will NEVER have the same experience you had when you first saw a scene, even if they remake it perfectly.

But at least we will shake our heads in sign of approval and say: "THIS is how it should have been done". That alone is more than enough for me.