Bleach English Voice Actor Discussion

[Royal_Devil]

Not to mention they have the adoration of the Drama CD / manga fans. Most seiyuu's I loved, I learned of through Drama CD's. Their voice acting can survive even without moving pictures to distract me. I can't really say the same for English VA's.

Thing thing is, the closest thing we have to that are audio clips voice actors have for their portfolio and most of those are taken from their performances for the shows they voice. But it would be interesting to see such CDs in the States.

Originally Posted by DjTrizz

everyone has their preference, I liked their VAs better, I was diggin Piccolo's voice (also who's Koga from InuYasha) and Vegeta

Same here. However Funi had better music and a better Trunks and Android 17 (two of my favorite characters) not to mention an actual uncut version. Pioneer has some good actors like Scott McNeil (Who would be my my pick for either Renji or Grimmjow) and Brian Drummard (or something like that) but constant edits and crappier music.

[BleachOD]

Originally Posted by DjTrizz

everyone has their preference, I liked their VAs better, I was diggin Piccolo's voice (also who's Koga from InuYasha) and Vegeta, I really

I agree. I am only telling you why I prefer subs. In no way am I saying your choices are poor. I am not. It's in my opinion subs are superior. I would love to watch them English if I could get the same feeling out them I get with subs but I can't. The quality of the acting is not the same. I argue with my boyfriend because he doesn't care. So he's clueless when I get mad if he doesn't make sure it's subs. He doesn't see the big deal. I turn it loud and insist people be quiet. He's like why do you need sound you can read it? For that I could choke him. He doesn't appreciate the talent a person has to have to express, joy, pain, love and admiration with just their voices. Like pop said the inflection in them is vastly different from English VA's . I want to be able to turn my head from time to time without rewinding because I don't know what's going. Yeah I could watch dubs but you should be able to tell by my grandiose behavior. I don't half-step. I want it to be right. I am not going to sell myself short and be denied great acting just because it's convenient in English.

@DevilNo time nor the sense to respond. I have been up for couple days. ...but yeah. I am saying that because I am black. I am a better judge than you when it comes to that kind of thing. Don't bother arguing with me. You will never get me to change that statement. I don't care if it sounds ignorant. It's the truth. Some stereotypes are not really stereotypes. They became one because there is a grain of truth to them...

[Mr. DJ]

yeah, I'd want to pop your boyfriend upside his head too, there's a difference between reading your standard book, then reading subtitles of something animated w/ voice overs and what have you in the background.

[poptart]

Originally Posted by Nervous Venus

Actually, Japan has more dialects varying from region to region than the US.
And even if your statement is true, I doubt most accents would be useful in the industry anyway.

i'm sorry i should have been more clear in my meaning.

i meant that from the available accents to denote ethinicity or "social status", etc there are way more to choose from then the common british, southern, high pitched girly that is used in my opinion.

heck i can always tell if someone is from chicago by the way that they say certain words. or tell what coast or region they are from by if they say pop, soda, or coke (to refer to all soft drinks). in the south alone there are different accents, twangs, drawls for just about every state.

my point was that english is in no way monotone and that the right actor can bring the same level of excitement, cultural references, and social implications with english if done with skill.

that is why is see no reason why the quality of acting in the english dubs shouldnt be on the same level as the original, imo

Originally Posted by Royal_Devil

So your bias gives seiyuus a handicap? Well, at least we agree on pronouncing things.

huh what handicap? and what bais?

please explain what you mean here as i want to respond but i'm unsure of what you mean

Originally Posted by Royal_Devil

Remember then. But that's only one example. And just because a celebrity mentions a seiyuu as inspiration it suddenly makes them a better group of people? What about how besides the comics they also examined Hamill's Joker when figuring out how to do him in TDK? Going by what you're saying they wouldn't give an animated performance a second glance.

i used celebrities comments on television shows as these are documented statements, you could actually search for them... plus its what i remembered at the time. i could pull anything out of my ass and say that 9 out 10 people i asked said that seiyuu are gifts from god i just used a non "otaku" documented example.

again no need to add things to my comments. nor do i really need to search and catalog every time a seiyuu is mentioned to get across the point that people outside of "otaku" and children know and respect seiyuu. this isnt a school paper. unlike your Miyazaki example i wasnt using it as a blanket for the general feeling of all people.

if you want another non celebrity, example there are many manga writers who know and respect seiyuu and ofter create characters with them in mind. they even have favorites that if a chance for a drama cd comes up, they will hope for that seiyuu to be cast. many will stick with the same seiyuu across their different series.

there was a little afterword in a manga i read once, talking about how she went down to see how the drama cd was being made and had a little fangirl moment over one of the actors. but i guess that one would count because... maybe she is an otaku... or that she is "in the business"... i dont know...

i dont watch cartoons... other than when i was a kid *X-men for the win!* hated spiderman and never really watched batman (though i used to love the old live action versions... still do actually )... so i really cant say i know much about it... thats cool if they checked out Hamil... dont know who he is though but he must have done a great job...

how that has anything to do with dubbers... i dont know.

Originally Posted by Royal_Devil

A Japanese native who knew a lot about what goes on in the industry. I would recommend you read that thread. Has some nice tidbits about the industry.

oh... i thought he had done some type of study or something...

cool. nice to read another persons viewpoint on it. still multiple studios could not survive off of such a niche market. as yes otaku will shell out and parents might by their kids things to watch, but i still find it hard to believe that the fate of the anime world rest solely on the otaku and children

Originally Posted by Royal_Devil

Still, a southern accent will not work. There's nothing Gin-ish about it. Maybe you have an accent in mind that would fit.

i didnt suggest it but there are tons of southern accents to choose from...

the best i can think of would be a new orleans drawl. not the deep country one but the city french quarters drawl. it has the same low, drawn out vowels, seedy feel to it....

Originally Posted by Royal_Devil

I never said that. Tell me where I said American VAs were more respected. I've just been saying in grand scheme of things seiyuu really aren't either outside of fans of their cartoons/music or people in the industry with a few odd exceptions outside that.

thats not what i said.

i was asking why you didnt apply the same qualifier to that comment.

if fans at a convention in japan are nothing more than "otakus" who's adoration discounts as a qualification for them being considered as "respected in japan". then fans at convention other places would also be counted as a measure of them beings regarded as "respected".

i know what you've been saying... its just that i believe that you are wrong and the logic is a bit faulty as a seiyuu's main job is to be the voice for an animated character either in an anime, drama cd, movie what have you. so by default if you enjoy the work of a seiyuu you would indeed have to at point in time be a fan of animated media or part of that culture. its not like VA's who were at one point a film, tv, whatever personality originally

[Thewanderer]

Wow, I feel the love in this thread! =D

It's really just about personal preference. It's really just how we enjoy the same animes, so we're all really on the same side here.

Personally, it don't matter to me. I watch dubs I catch on TV, and I get my hands on the subs when I'm not too lazy. I'm not a critic though, so lots of other people couldn't stand to do this, and I respect that. Whatever floats your boat, I always say =D

[Royal_Devil]

Some stereotypes are not really stereotypes. They became one because there is a grain of truth to them...

Who's stereotyping? I compared him to all the blacks I've heard and he doesn't match any of them. He sounds like any other deep voiced Japanese performance. And that's not a bad thing.

So what would you say if I said I thought Chad doesn't sound Hispanic since I am one myself?

Originally Posted by poptart

huh what handicap? and what bais?

please explain what you mean here as i want to respond but i'm unsure of what you mean

what it does however mean is that i dont mind the flaws that are there.

I got that you don't mind the flaws of seiyuus but have shown no hesitation with the flaws of English actors.

if you want another non celebrity, example there are many manga writers who know and respect seiyuu and ofter create characters with them in mind. they even have favorites that if a chance for a drama cd comes up, they will hope for that seiyuu to be cast. many will stick with the same seiyuu across their different series.

I agree. I said that people in the industry and otakus remember?

thats cool if they checked out Hamil... dont know who he is though but he must have done a great job...

You've never heard of Luck Skywalker? As for the Joker

how that has anything to do with dubbers... i dont know.

Hamills dubbed anime too.

cool. nice to read another persons viewpoint on it. still multiple studios could not survive off of such a niche market. as yes otaku will shell out and parents might by their kids things to watch, but i still find it hard to believe that the fate of the anime world rest solely on the otaku and children

There are many things in the world that will you surprise you in that way. This is one of them. Who else would watch all these series airing later at night/early in the morning?

the best i can think of would be a new orleans drawl. not the deep country one but the city french quarters drawl. it has the same low, drawn out vowels, seedy feel to it....

Still missing something.

if fans at a convention in japan are nothing more than "otakus" who's adoration discounts as a qualification for them being considered as "respected in japan". then fans at convention other places would also be counted as a measure of them beings regarded as "respected".

I never discounted their adoration. But it's no different here. Adoration for voice actors in America is made up of geek culture too.

so by default if you enjoy the work of a seiyuu you would indeed have to at point in time be a fan of animated media or part of that culture. its not like VA's who were at one point a film, tv, whatever personality originally

Not necessarily. It's quite easy to remain ignorant of other stuff your favorite celebrity has done. kj gave an example of some girls he heard talking about a singer they liked. When it was brought up she'd sung it for an anime series they had no clue about what series they were talking about?

[Mr. DJ]

I couldn't help but laugh too w/ all that Joker-ness XD

as for those who aren't familiar w/ Mark Hamill, which even though I'm not a Star Wars geek by any means...sorta surprises me somehow...

animation/anime stuff he's done..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Hamill#Anime

[poptart]

Originally Posted by Royal_Devil

I got that you don't mind the flaws of seiyuus but have shown no hesitation with the flaws of English actors.

hmm... i see you got that from not being able to properly read the full sentence... i'll post it again and bold the part you seem to have missed. which was most of it

Originally Posted by poptart

not mentioning the flaws does not imply perfection. what it does however mean is that i dont mind the flaws that are there. engrish doesnt bother me the same way that poorly pronounced japanese names dont particularly bother me. as its not either of their native languages i dont expect it to be good.

most of the problems i have related to seiyuu deals with the them casting the wrong voice in my opinion. but over time i usually get over it as it. like i really wished that Minagawa Junko could have voiced Allen Walker, but as time went on i grew to like Kobayashi Sanae or even growing to love Kugimiya Rie as Miharu.

see the difference. they both put out a good performance in my opinion so i was able to still enjoy it overall.

meaning there are flaws but they are not flaws big enough to impede me enjoying the show. i even gave a problem that i have with with two particular shows and the reason why it doesnt bother me to further illustrate my point.

there is no bias. there is however a level of quality and performance i want to get from my watching experience that has yet to be met by the VAs. thus my problem with them.

Originally Posted by Royal_Devil

I agree. I said that people in the industry and otakus remember?

mangakas and seiyuu are in the same industry. if thats true then both your Miyazaki and Hamil/TDK example holds no grounds as both of them are in the same industry. see how that works...

Originally Posted by Royal_Devil

You've never heard of Luck Skywalker? As for the Joker

oh... thats who that is... *shrugs* cool... never knew his name

Originally Posted by Royal_Devil

Hamills dubbed anime too.

cool... but your refrence had nill to do with dubbers... it had to do with the joker which is an american cartoon. apple meet orange

Originally Posted by Royal_Devil

There are many things in the world that will you surprise you in that way. This is one of them. Who else would watch all these series airing later at night/early in the morning?

children?

again it just doesnt fly. to some extent it holds water because truthfully these are valued customers... however no business that racks in such high revenues would be able to do so with just these two as the main contributers to its gains. that just doesnt make sense. sorry... i just dont agree at all that to me just doesnt make any logical business sense.

every business that large needs to appeal to the masses unless you are catering to a niche market... there are genres of anime that will only target those markets like the late night shows, hentai, yaoi, yuri etc. but for the most part those shows have a mass appeal to them. i am in no way denying that your average adult probably isnt rushing home from work to catch bleach but i also think that there are a large number of people outside of the "otaku" group and above the children group that enjoy it as well for it to do as well as it has.

Originally Posted by Royal_Devil

Not necessarily. It's quite easy to remain ignorant of other stuff your favorite celebrity has done. kj gave an example of some girls he heard talking about a singer they liked. When it was brought up she'd sung it for an anime series they had no clue about what series they were talking about?

that again has nothing to do with being a fan of the seiyuu...

that example would be a person being a fan of the SINGER not the seiyuu. if you never knew that Ono Daisuke was a relatively popular seiyuu because all you know is that you love his music then of course it makes sense

[Royal_Devil]

Originally Posted by poptart

mangakas and seiyuu are in the same industry. if thats true then both your Miyazaki and Hamil/TDK example holds no grounds as both of them are in the same industry. see how that works...

Please tell me where I indicated otherwise. I've always been comparing their popularity to the general public, not geek culture or industry culture since you seem convinced that seiyuus are Hollywood level in Japan, which they're not.

cool... but your refrence had nill to do with dubbers... it had to do with the joker which is an american cartoon. apple meet orange

Alright then, his role as the villain in Castle in the Sky.

children?

again it just doesnt fly. to some extent it holds water because truthfully these are valued customers... however no business that racks in such high revenues would be able to do so with just these two as the main contributers to its gains. that just doesnt make sense. sorry... i just dont agree at all that to me just doesnt make any logical business sense.

It's been working just fine in Japan. you've got thousands of otakus willing to shell out thousands of dollars each for the shows they like. kj even explains why the have disposable incomes for these things.

Again like kj said:

Simply put: Most teens in your country sticks to watching MTV. Similar thing here in Japan. Dad comes home from work, he's not going to watch anime. He wants to see K-1 fighting, Suzuki Ichiro playing for the Seattle Mariners, or soccer. Mom watches TV between household chores, she's going to watch cooking channels. Kid comes home from school, he/she wants to be "in with the times" so he/she watches channels dedicated to music and latest fashion trends.

Anime is for kids. That is the reality of how it is viewed - even in Japan. Yes, it is quite shocking for you guys, but that is the reality. While we do have anime only channels like bayoab has said, it's practically the same in America - people who view them are otakus. Practically you too are saying that when you say, "hey I love to watch Cartoon Network." Wow, I can sense the geekiness coming out from you. Same with me. Unless you are an avid fan of the original story who eagerly wants to watch the show by actually paying for it, no one is going to watch it.

If dad is bringing home the money to pay for the satellite service, he'll watch something more "normal." Kick-ass exhibition fighting matches, heart-pounding live action foreign dramas, or see our national hero hitting runs in MLB.

But like I said, animes are shown on local UHF stations late at night, or in satellite subscription service. As you said, it caters to grow that market. That's why you see otakus shelling out cash with over 50 anime shows airing next season. Who is going to watch them? Otakus. That's who it is catered for, and because of BS and CS channels, that is why anime shows ballooned to the bubble that we are seeing today.

every business that large needs to appeal to the masses unless you are catering to a niche market... there are genres of anime that will only target those markets like the late night shows, hentai, yaoi, yuri etc. but for the most part those shows have a mass appeal to them. i am in no way denying that your average adult probably isnt rushing home from work to catch bleach but i also think that there are a large number of people outside of the "otaku" group and above the children group that enjoy it as well for it to do as well as it has.

Bleach is shounen, so that's mostly kids the money's coming in for. Majority of anime these days are niche actually.

that again has nothing to do with being a fan of the seiyuu...

that example would be a person being a fan of the SINGER not the seiyuu. if you never knew that Ono Daisuke was a relatively popular seiyuu because all you know is that you love his music then of course it makes sense

okay what was the point about this again? You said if your a fan of them you'll know about their anime stuff. I was giving an example where that wasn't the case.

[poptart]

eating so will sum it up...

first that was a typo and should have been a question mark... as in Seiyuu and Mangaka are in the same industry? as voice actors are not the same as mangaka. the serve two totally different purposes and can function fine without each other. and not once did i say they were hollywood level. the only comparison i made to anything hollywood was that some seiyuu voices are strongly connected to hollywood actors when they voice a majority of their work making them more known in the "mainstream" audience.

which if you consider them to be in the same industry then it makes your earlier comparisons and references with Miyazaki and Hamil of TDK null as those too are from the same industry and not apart of the "general public"

i didnt say it wasnt the case.... i just said that doesnt make much logical sense for "thousands of otakus and children" to be the base of any high gains business without it also having a more mass market appeal to stablize it.

there is a difference of being a fan of the seiyuu to begin with and a fan of the singer to begin with.

it makes perfet sense that somebody who is a fan of the singer aspect of Ono Daisuke not to be aware of him being a seiyuu. if you only heard his music then it stands to reason you wouldnt. you are a fan of Ono Daisuke the musician not Ono Daisuke the seiyuu.

two different things.

[Royal_Devil]

Originally Posted by poptart

first that was a typo and should have been a question mark... as in Seiyuu and Mangaka are in the same industry? as voice actors are not the same as mangaka. the serve two totally different purposes and can function fine without each other.

Well it depends on the mangaka. Some like you said do care about the anime version so they have seiyuu in mind. Some don't care and they wouldn't apply. Some come to like how the seiyuu do it. And some outright hate the anime version of their work. The first group was what you were talking about. The third group is mostly pleased that their work is doing so well in another medium and of course are very grateful towards the seiyuus and others. It's like an author's work being made into a movie here. Some like it, some hate it, some warm up to it. Unless they're already dead of course...

which if you consider them to be in the same industry then it makes your earlier comparisons and references with Miyazaki and Hamil of TDK null as those too are from the same industry and not apart of the "general public"

Yes, I said those situations are the same. your point? I've never once said English VA's >>>> seiyuus. I've always been arguing about how similar they really are and how similar their situations are. I don't know where you got that I insinuated Hamill being looked up for TDK was somehow better than seiyuus, I was using that to counter you using some random idol using a seiyuu.

i didnt say it wasnt the case.... i just said that doesnt make much logical sense for "thousands of otakus and children" to be the base of any high gains business without it also having a more mass market appeal to stablize it.

Anime DVDs are expensive in Japan. If someone offered you or me 2 episodes for $50 or more would you accept? Or would you be like the otaku and fork over the money and take the DVD home to watch no questions asked. DVD prices there are like that because they're the key to paying off productions and those thousands of otaku are still eating this stuff up.

Let's look at all the series out there right now. Majority are based off a manga, a light novel, or a game. These things have established fanbases and many of those fans are otaku of those works. So they're going to go crazy and buy up the anime version. Original programs have to be a hit with anime otaku to be successful. Keep in mind we don't get EVERY series that airs from Japan. There are plenty of series that bomb, that's the nature of any entertainment industry.

And this is just DVDs. Merchandise is a whole nother beast that can cover and otaku's room in stuff. You know those creepy people in anime surrounded by figures and stuff. That's actually not far off the mark.

it makes perfet sense that somebody who is a fan of the singer aspect of Ono Daisuke not to be aware of him being a seiyuu. if you only heard his music then it stands to reason you wouldnt. you are a fan of Ono Daisuke the musician not Ono Daisuke the seiyuu.

But you could only like him as a singer since you may not like anime or may feel you've outgrown it, which is an all too common occurrence in Japan if what kj and others have said.

[Ryuujin]

Originally Posted by BleachOD

Bleach sucks...Did you hear Gai-Sensei's voice on Naruto? Cringe-worthy.

What are you talking about? His English voice is awesome, and very similar to his Japanese voice at that...

Adult Swim is called that but all the adult themes are edited. Why don't they just call it TEENAGE SWIM?! Dubbers censor...I HATE THAT MOST OF ALL!

You realize most anime is already censored from the manga to begin with, right? Hell, some anime get changed in ways that would make 4Kids proud...

Scott McNeil successfully voiced four different characters in Beast Wars.

And ended up spending much of the series arguing with himself

[Nervous Venus]

Anime is for kids. That is the reality of how it is viewed - even in Japan.

No utterance is more difficult to refute than the ultimate absurdity.

[Royal_Devil]

Originally Posted by Nervous Venus

No utterance is more difficult to refute than the ultimate absurdity.

So where's your proof to the contrary? We've got two Japanese natives (that I can remember right now) saying that in the same thread. Neither of them necessarily like how it is but that's the way the world is. It's not too much of a stretch to say most anime is made for kids and/or otaku. There are exceptions mind you but generally you're more like to see sports, news, and live action shows being watched by the general public than you would anime.

Now keep in mind when I say this, manga and anime are actually viewed in two different lights for some strange reason. For some reason, manga is apparently a more accepted form of entertainment than the animated form. Anyone can read a manga on the train and not even be given a second glance. For some reason, being an adult and admitting you love anime that's not a classic or by Miyazaki has actually lost some people their jobs in Japan.

[mugenTaichou]

No matter which language it is, what way, what kind of actors are (good, bad, dunno),what purpose....



Dub sucks.

[Nervous Venus]

So where's your proof to the contrary?

I can't refute the absolute absurdity remember ?

On a serious note, I will agree that people who say they watch Bleach or Naruto in Japan are generally kids 10 - 16. Everyone knows that's the main target audience. However, I do have a question. A lot of anime are derived from manga, you agree? So if manga are treated differently than anime, what about the majority of anime that came from manga?

How are they treated?

[Royal_Devil]

I checked the Wiki article about otaku

In Japan, anime is not as widely accepted and mainstream as manga. Because of this the otaku subculture has much influence over the mainstream anime industry in Japan. The area where otaku have the most influence in manga tends to be with dōjinshi.

But that's wiki so I know I'll need better things but it was interesting.

Anyway, according to this There are an estimated 3 million anime otaku in Japan. People within this movement spend 400 billion yen a year on anime and merchandise. Like I said, they may have a bigger geek culture than us. I'll have to check for articles about how things are in the West but we do have a comic book movie grossing a lot of money in a few weeks (keep in mind Titanic was in theaters for 9 months in some places and never made more than 30 million in one weekend). Still, that's 3 million out of 127,433,494 so it's still a minority like I said it was. But I'd say that's more than enough for anime companies to make ends meat off them. And that's 2005 mind you so things may have changed

Originally Posted by Nervous Venus

I can't refute the absolute absurdity remember ?

On a serious note, I will agree that people who say they watch Bleach or Naruto in Japan are generally kids 10 - 16. Everyone knows that's the main target audience. However, I do have a question. A lot of anime are derived from manga, you agree? So if manga are treated differently than anime, what about the majority of anime that came from manga?

How are they treated?

I honestly don't know. I would imagine they fair better. Of course it may come down to ability to watch it. manga's so popular because you can read it anywhere. anime's limited to the television. Perhaps reading something on the train or on off time is seen as less extreme as watching cartoons on TV when you could be doing something more constructive at home or watch something that "matters" like the news or how well Japan's allstars are doing overseas. Or in the case of kids and teens, whether you saw the latest new music video by a big band or are keeping up with the latest fashion news.

[BleachOD]

Originally Posted by Ryuujin

.


You realize most anime is already censored from the manga to begin with, right? Hell, some anime get changed in ways that would make 4Kids proud...

Really?! I guess I missed that...

Of course I know that. However what is targeted at 12-16 age group in Japan is consider R rated or at least PG18. That is why Bleach airs on ADULT swim and not those Toonami cartoon Blocks that come on after school. It's is then censored again after it was already censored. My thing is...why call it adult swim if you are gonna censor it for underage viewers.

@Devil. One, I agree Chad doesn't sound like a name in the Spanish language. Moreover it seems it's the translators who call him that. His name is Sado, Ichigo says Chado.Everyone else says Sado. He is Mexican and Japanese. His name is Japanese.

I wonder if there is a similar name in Arabic? Your language derives from Arabic.

Last ...Don't refer to yourself as Hispanic. It's derogatory and it's another way of saying "that you are black" but not in a nice way. You should look up the history of that word. The thing is I am a second class citizen just like an immigrant. ...

Never mind it's not the place for it....just try not to use that word. It's the equivalent of the "N word"

[Royal_Devil]

Originally Posted by BleachOD

@Devil. One, I agree Chad doesn't sound like a name in the Spanish language. Moreover it seems it's the translators who call him that. His name is Sado, Ichigo says Chado.Everyone else says Sado. He is Mexican and Japanese. His name is Japanese.

You know I meant his voice right?

Never mind it's not the place for it....just try not to use that word. It's the equivalent of the "N word"

So basically it's a word I can refer to myself and others of my race as much as I want but the moment someone of any other race uses it, it's the worse word ever?

[Mitsuomi1971]

I will tell you the reason I watch anime...I grew up in Japan in the 70's and early 80's, I grew up when anime was created basically...and when I moved here I was so tripped out by the crappy cartoons that when I got older and anime made it here I craved it...it is more mature in nature than many of even todays TV shows here in the US. I love the humor to be found in most of Japanese television not just anime. I guess I just enjoy a more mature message coupled with humor, and it seems that anime provides it...I also read books and watch US TV as well and enjoy many shows but anime is in my heart