North Korea Crisis

[Kamui4356]

Originally Posted by mindovermatter

a nuke is not *technically* hard to make...
at a certain critical mass, uranium^235 will explode. All you gotta do is refine less pure uranium^238 to get there. Refining it is basically like using a washing-machine sized centrifuge. Everything else is just details. That's why every dictator and his son wants to do it.

That's great. That's not easy to do though. Though details? Turns out they're extremely important. Not to mention, most fission devices use plutonium, not uranium. Only early gun type bombs did.

[Kamui4356]

Originally Posted by mindovermatter

a nuke is not *technically* hard to make...
at a certain critical mass, uranium^235 will explode. All you gotta do is refine less pure uranium^238 to get there. Refining it is basically like using a washing-machine sized centrifuge. Everything else is just details. That's why every dictator and his son wants to do it.

That's great. That's not easy to do though. A washing machine size centrifuge? More like thousands of the things. Those details? Turns out they're extremely important. Not to mention, most fission devices use plutonium, not uranium. Only early gun type bombs did.

[Kaijo]

Originally Posted by mindovermatter

a nuke is not *technically* hard to make...
at a certain critical mass, uranium^235 will explode. All you gotta do is refine less pure uranium^238 to get there. Refining it is basically like using a washing-machine sized centrifuge. Everything else is just details. That's why every dictator and his son wants to do it.

If it was so easy, every dictator and their son would have one. No terrorist groups have them. Saddam failed. Kim wants the world to think he has them. Iran *might* get one, and that's after years and billions of dollars of development. And even then, they needed aPakistani Nuclear Scientist to spill the exact details.

The point remains: nuclear weapons are hard to make. The biggest issue that should concern you, is the fact that Russia doesn't know what happened to all it's nukes. With the breakup of the Soviet Union, a lot of nuclear material went unaccounted for.

I'm definitely not worried about North Korea, though. It sucks for the NK people, but Kim is a dick and nothing is going to make things better for them until he's gone. To that point, there are two choices: Attack and kill him, or just ignore him. I advocate the latter.

Seriously, the dude is an attention whore; always popping up with something else to get people to pay attention to him.

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by Kamui4356

That's great. That's not easy to do though. Though details? Turns out they're extremely important. Not to mention, most fission devices use plutonium, not uranium. Only early gun type bombs did.

He's right. In nuclear physics there is something called critical mass, AND in chemistry, there is something called reaction volume.

N.K nuclear bombs may use the simple gun-type fission models, but it is not easy to build - they had a couple of fizzles before they actually succeeded.

[Eisdrache]

All this talk about invading NK is kinda crazy in this thread. You should realize that the second an enemy army sets foot on NK ground Seoul will feel the pain of NK's massive artillery pointed there. And while it may be true that a preemptive strike may take out quite a bit of said artillery if you even miss a small part the damage done to SK could be enormous. NK may or may not have nuclear weapons, their last test is assumed to be more a publicity stunt than an actual test success. However the danger of NK having a nuke is something the US, SK or any other nation certainly has to consider before simply invading NK and unfortunately NK is very aware of that and loves to use that to threaten their neighbours with it.

From time to time NK also goes to action like sinking the SK marine vessel some weeks ago. NK refuses any claims of them attacking a SK ship but it is almost certain that it was an attack by a NK submarine.

However there are signs of change in NK, though they seem to be small. Some months ago there has been a little turmoil of people who were angry about starvation and the general situation in NK. Sure it was quelled pretty soon but it shows that more and more NK people are voicing against the goverment. Unfortunately doing so will put your life in danger or at least get you moved into a work camp without ever seeing your family again. This is also the reason why the few NK people who are privileged enough to travel to other countries (sport/artistic talents, diplomats, etc) know exactly not to just defect and stay abroad since their whole family will be moved into a camp and stay there for a very long time (assumed they survive).

It is generally acknowledged in SK that if their previous president (whose name escapes me at the moment) wouldn't have advocate the 'Sunshine Politic' for NK then the regime might have already collapsed. The current SK president is much stricter with NK and this is for the best. The earlier NK collapses the better for the rest of the world. Unfortunately China, NK only friend, is more interested in keeping them around. There is a recent video on youtube that shows NK refugees being pushed back into their country by (I think) the chinese border police. Not really sure on that since I didn't see the whole thing. Without the help of China NK would have collapsed a long time ago.

[Vexx]

Actually, its even more problematic to "voice your discontent with the NK gov." as it is not only YOU that get sent to camp to die but also your entire family and occasionally anyone that even knew you ("and your little dog, too.") Its very effective and ruthless.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by Eisdrache

It is generally acknowledged in SK that if their previous president (whose name escapes me at the moment) wouldn't have advocate the 'Sunshine Politic' for NK then the regime might have already collapsed. The current SK president is much stricter with NK and this is for the best. The earlier NK collapses the better for the rest of the world. Unfortunately China, NK only friend, is more interested in keeping them around. There is a recent video on youtube that shows NK refugees being pushed back into their country by (I think) the chinese border police. Not really sure on that since I didn't see the whole thing. Without the help of China NK would have collapsed a long time ago.

part of it is that SK doesn't want NK to collapse either. If NK had collapse SK would have had to deal with millions of hungry refugees and would have to rebuilt NK up form scratch. That is billions of dollars in investment and just looking at Germany, it took them over a decade to intergrate E.Germany with W.Germany. Then there is also the issue of millions of young man in NK army that have absolutely no skills in applicable in the real world. And they will have all those guns that were issue to them.

The biggest asset NK has isn't there nukes but the millions and millions of hungry refugee that will pour if NK collapse.

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

The biggest asset NK has isn't there nukes but the millions and millions of hungry refugee that will pour if NK collapse.

Which can be easily solved the Stalinist way : 200 rounds of API (Armour-Piercing INCENDIARY) rounds loaded to every medium machine gun, 10 GPMGs every 100m of the demarcated zone, then fire when ready. *sarcastic*

Seriously though, what we can wish for is that the son is less loony than his dad and opens up NK like Vietnam, which is doing rather fine with their neighbours as compared to the 1970s.

[-Sho-]

Damn i missed the exclusive reporting on NK which was broadcasted 2 days ago in my country . I just watched some preview . Holy sh*t , i already knew that people there lived the hell and i pity the people there . They are trained like Robot and have to be one . A single mistake can cost them the dead .
The kids learn by rote Kim Jong History and prepare them to be soldiers .
A girl cops who still handle the traffic like a robot even though there are no people driving there .
All the day , a long lineup , like 200+ people waiting for the bus .
At the frontier NK - SK , like 1millions of robot soldiers ready for a war ...
A village exclusively build for Tourists to show a good image for the country and don't show the poor village side .
If you ever go there , you are always with a "guide" otherwise you're dead . Despite the guide who told the reporter that it's forbidden , the reporting managed to take some photos and record some videos . That was impressive .

[AnimeFan188]

"China has told South Korea that it will not allow the unification of Korea under a
democratic government. North Korea will remain under Chinese "influence." If
worse comes to worse, China will send in troops to set up a North Korean
government that will faithfully follow orders from China. In an effort to dampen
some of the anger in South Korea (the United States, Japan and so on), China
would maintain North Korea as a separate entity (and not a new province of
China). China wants no misunderstanding about who "owns" North Korea."

See:

http://www.strategypage.com/qnd/kore.../20120708.aspx

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by AnimeFan188

"China has told South Korea that it will not allow the unification of Korea under a
democratic government. North Korea will remain under Chinese "influence." If
worse comes to worse, China will send in troops to set up a North Korean
government that will faithfully follow orders from China. In an effort to dampen
some of the anger in South Korea (the United States, Japan and so on), China
would maintain North Korea as a separate entity (and not a new province of
China). China wants no misunderstanding about who "owns" North Korea."

See:

http://www.strategypage.com/qnd/kore.../20120708.aspx

China is seriously underestimating the Colossi and Immortal cyber-army South Korea is researching alongside US. Zerg rush is going to be really painful for anyone who tries it.

[Ascaloth]

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

China is seriously underestimating the Colossi and Immortal cyber-army South Korea is researching alongside US. Zerg rush is going to be really painful for anyone who tries it.

Come to think of it, I wonder if there's more to the inclusion of the "In Utter Darkness" bonus mission in the game than we all thought.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by AnimeFan188

"China has told South Korea that it will not allow the unification of Korea under a
democratic government.

http://www.strategypage.com/qnd/kore.../20120708.aspx

about as factual as a as McCarthy's list of Communist in the State Dept.

[NoemiChan]

I just watched some preview . Holy sh*t , i already knew that people there lived the hell and i pity the people there . They are trained like Robot and have to be one . A single mistake can cost them the dead .

I know what you mean.

Anyway......

No matter how powerful the alliance these two leftist make, declaring war against the world would not be very beneficial. Even if they won... could they maintain it?

[Paranoid Android]

"June 28, 2012: In Japan, three men were arrested and charged with illegally exporting slot machines to North Korea."

Obviously the real problem with this series of events.

But yeah, I got nothing new out of this article =/ It's all a 'either true or complete bull, it doesn't really make a difference'.

Originally Posted by GenjiChan

Anyway......

No matter how powerful the alliance these two leftist make, declaring war against the world would not be very beneficial. Even if they won... could they maintain it?

I don't think that will happen. I think this awkward grudge fest is going to last for a very long time. There's very few nations in the world who care enough to step in again since the Korean War. Everyone has money in their heads. The economy won't benefit nearly as much as a war (especially if nothing changes after) with China than with other nations. Most prefer to sit down and talk smack for this one, for now.

You can't count the two alone either. While no one would support their notion, countries like Russia and Germany share their technology in all fields that would indirectly strengthen China; For the money.

[ReaperxKingx]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

about as factual as a as McCarthy's list of Communist in the State Dept.

Hahaha well no doubt McCarthy had a little something wrong with his head, but some of his claims were true when the Soviet Union collapse and countries examine the achieves. There were indeed traitors in the United States. China population is at 1,338,300,000 (2010 numbers) while the United States are 311,591,917 (2011 numbers). China outnumbers the United States 4 to 1, but the United States has better technology. It will be a close fight if China fights the United States, but the United States has more experience. A lot of People still remember China's involvement in the first Korean War (Though they will not accept they were truly involved, but everyone pretty much knew they were involve). This time around, maybe Douglas MacArthur wishes to deal with China will come true 60 or 70 years later.

[Xellos-_^]

there will be no war between the US and China because the economy for both countries would go to hell if there was a war.

[Paranoid Android]

Originally Posted by ReaperxKingx

Hahaha well no doubt McCarthy had a little something wrong with his head, but some of his claims were true when the Soviet Union collapse and countries examine the achieves. There were indeed traitors in the United States. China population is at 1,338,300,000 (2010 numbers) while the United States are 311,591,917 (2011 numbers). China outnumbers the United States 4 to 1, but the United States has better technology. It will be a close fight if China fights the United States, but the United States has more experience. A lot of People still remember China's involvement in the first Korean War (Though they will not accept they were truly involved, but everyone pretty much knew they were involve). This time around, maybe Douglas MacArthur wishes to deal with China will come true 60 or 70 years later.

The 4 : 1 doesn't apply. It's the American Military vs majority of China's population. The Japanese couldn't maintain control of China in WWII with all their organization, weaponry and military experience. Because it was soldiers vs every single person that could walk on their feet.

Not saying anything about the outcome, but fighting away from home and on home turf is a different experience. Also the strength of propaganda is vastly different. It's a lot harder to motivate to go over-seas to kill other people than it is to motivate someone to kill because your country/neighbour is being invaded.

[Ithekro]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

there will be no war between the US and China because the economy for both countries would go to hell if there was a war.

What if the economies collape first? Then war?

[Paranoid Android]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

What if the economies collape first? Then war?

I think it's more to do with what they get out of it. It doesn't matter what situation they are in. In starcraft analogy, it's like a 1v1 and every other country in the world is a free expansion. Fight over/Mine out the expansions and the main base will naturally starve.