Valid argument about anime and cartoons?

[CMSensei]

Well both sides have different styles and one shows a lot more gore then the other. And because they can be so different is why a lot of people categorize it.

It's probably a lot easier for people to say "anime" and some would get what style you like to watch same goes for cartoons.

Sure they do mean the same thing but I think you would draw some confusion to some people and otaku's if you said..

" oh I like watching anime."
"oh really what do you watch? =D"
"spongebob~!"
"ʘ_ʘ?"

[bhl88]

Originally Posted by CMHerrera

Well both sides have different styles and one shows a lot more gore then the other. And because they can be so different is why a lot of people categorize it.

It's probably a lot easier for people to say "anime" and some would get what style you like to watch same goes for cartoons.

Sure they do mean the same thing but I think you would draw some confusion to some people and otaku's if you said..

" oh I like watching anime."
"oh really what do you watch? =D"
"spongebob~!"
"ʘ_ʘ?"

What if the western cartoons were called animation instead (oh nvm the question would loop to: Valid argument about anime and animation)

[Lenaisian]

... *hmph* here in the Philippines, the common folk are somewhat indifferent about identifying JapAnimation (anime) and most cartoons (mostly from western countries)... and even worse, they also identify anime with HENTAI, which is alarming for me. True story.

[Soliloquy]

I don't think normal Japanese really thinks a big deal about difference between the western animation and anime. They don't seem to be interested in finding out the finer details in the western animation especially ones that are popular right now. They might have been exposed to the Simpsons and all those cartoon network programs, it seems like they only usually reference already well-established superhero cartoons or totally outrageous cartoons like Southpark or Drawn Together. It seems in Japan, most animations are assumed to be for kids except for long running cartoons.

I used to think there were no difference between anime and cartoons but for me now there's enough difference to distinguish between them. And I just noticed that all the cartoons from America have been self-contained episodes except of course Avatar, the Lastbender. Beside this one, there hasn't been any which is why when you see a normal cartoon, I don't feel invested in it nor feel motivated to finish the series. With anime, it becomes endearing and long after you finish it, you feel as if it made some sort of impact. Ok, not all anime does, but some of the best one leaves me with long lasting impression and gives you a different outlook to your life. In short, it sometimes does more than what it's supposed to.

[Digital]

To me, the answer about whether anime refers to only Japanese animation or not is a simple one, but maybe not as well defined as it originally was.

Anime is a Japanese loan word that was originally borrowed into English to differentiate between American animation, which most commonly was targeted at juveniles, and Japanese animation, which went after a much broader audience. While American animation originally had the same audience, it more and more got associated with children's programming and Saturday morning "cartoons." Even Japanese animation that was imported into the country was re-edited and re-cut to be more suitable for a young audience (Speed Racer and Battle of the Planets). I think people forget that before The Simpsons, it was almost unheard of to find animation in prime time programming, outside of the holiday specials (but still targeted to a young audience). There's a really good essay in the original Robotech Art Book that talks through this adoption of anime to refer to "Japanimation."

Since the Japanese refer to all animation as anime, it only made sense to use that as the word to describe Japanese animation, since you had to have some way to distinguish the unedited, not always safe for kids animation coming from Japan. Imaging finding a copy of Dragon Pink in the children's section (true story), waiting for some unknowing parent to pick up thinking their kids will like a dragon story.

Similar Japanese loan words are manga and otaku, which have one meaning in Japan, and potentially a completely different connotation in the US. I'm assuming that a Superman or Spiderman comic is called manga in Japan, though I don't have any personal experience to draw on.

Funny enough, I think that the terms change over time, and that it's not necessarily a bad thing. Otaku used to be a bit of a derogatory term in Japan, at least from the many articles I read that talked about the difference in meaning between the two countries, and how Japanese couldn't understand why American fans would be calling themselves otaku. Here in the US, shows like The Simpsons and Family Guy have pushed the boundaries of animation, and feature films like Wall-E have proved there is an adult audience for animation. Now that people understand that animation isn't just for kids, we don't need the distinction that anime was intended to explain.

[bhl88]

Originally Posted by Soliloquy

I don't think normal Japanese really thinks a big deal about difference between the western animation and anime. They don't seem to be interested in finding out the finer details in the western animation especially ones that are popular right now. They might have been exposed to the Simpsons and all those cartoon network programs, it seems like they only usually reference already well-established superhero cartoons or totally outrageous cartoons like Southpark or Drawn Together. It seems in Japan, most animations are assumed to be for kids except for long running cartoons.

I used to think there were no difference between anime and cartoons but for me now there's enough difference to distinguish between them. And I just noticed that all the cartoons from America have been self-contained episodes except of course Avatar, the Lastbender. Beside this one, there hasn't been any which is why when you see a normal cartoon, I don't feel invested in it nor feel motivated to finish the series. With anime, it becomes endearing and long after you finish it, you feel as if it made some sort of impact. Ok, not all anime does, but some of the best one leaves me with long lasting impression and gives you a different outlook to your life. In short, it sometimes does more than what it's supposed to.

Somehow I agree. I tend not to finish those shows.

[Kyuu]

In this video: Fan-made Star Wars anime

I've had my two-cents on this video elsewhere. But clearly, I can tell the person, who made this animation is not Japanese. It's good work; and quality-wise, this is comparable to anime in the 80's.

[Pink Cow]

"anime" in the Japanese language means cartoon. They would call any type of cartoon, whether their own or another country's as "anime". The only reason why people would argue about this is because they don't like associated Japanese cartoons with Western ones, because in the West, cartoons are considered something for kids. Japanese cartoons on the other hand can target older audiences.

[Random32]

Japanese animation can target kids or anime otaku. There is rare one that might target normal adult audiences, but the main difference between the Western and Japanese view on animation is that there are enough adult animation fans in Japan to support a small industry catering to it, that doesn't mean that watching animation as an adult isn't still looked down upon.

[NinjaRealist]

In Japanese Anime = A Medium

In English Anime = A prolific and identifiable genre of Japanese Cartoons (you could argue about whether the whole of anime constitutes a genre. In my opinion there are specific definable traits of anime that make it a genre)

[Kyuu]

Originally Posted by NinjaRealist

In Japanese Anime = A Medium

In English Anime = A prolific and identifiable genre of Japanese Cartoons (you could argue about whether the whole of anime constitutes a genre. In my opinion there are specific definable traits of anime that make it a genre)

That's a complete mis-use of the word "genre". "Genre" applies to "story themes": like "romance", "drama", "comedy", "horror", etc. Anime contains all of that; and these same genres apply to other media.

[Ithekro]

In a store you would find anime in one location, foreign films in another. Cartoons sometimes in another, but usually most are under Kids things. The rest are simply in with the regular films are in genre sections.


In a Japanese video store in San Francisco, the anime is seperated from the rest of the films as well. Anime is in aphabetical order only by title.

[NinjaRealist]

Originally Posted by Kyuu

That's a complete mis-use of the word "genre". "Genre" applies to "story themes": like "romance", "drama", "comedy", "horror", etc. Anime contains all of that; and these same genres apply to other media.

Ahhh, but there are story themes which seem to pervade 90% of anime, so then would't the collective existence of these themes mean that anime is, in actuality, a genre?

[hyl]

Originally Posted by NinjaRealist

Ahhh, but there are story themes which seem to pervade 90% of anime, so then would't the collective existence of these themes mean that anime is, in actuality, a genre?

Did you even proofread what you just typed?
Maybe you should read these wikipedia entries to understand a little what people refer as a genre.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genre_fiction

[SeijiSensei]

Originally Posted by NinjaRealist

Ahhh, but there are story themes which seem to pervade 90% of anime, so then would't the collective existence of these themes mean that anime is, in actuality, a genre?

Of course not. Hollywood films have a dozen or so well-worn themes; so do television shows. You wouldn't consider these "genres" either, would you?

And while anime certainly has become more narrow in the half-dozen or so years that I have been watching it, I think your 90% figure reflects your own viewing decisions as much as the range of diversity in Japanese animation. Over the past year or so I've watched shows like Hyouge Mono, Space Brothers, Usagi Drop, Madoka Magica, Mine Fujiko, AKB0048, and Sakamichi no Apollon. I would hardly lump them all together into a "genre" called "anime."

[NinjaRealist]

Originally Posted by hyl

Did you even proof read what you just typed?
Maybe you should read this wikipedia entry to understand what a genre is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genre_fiction

I don't proof read everything I post, but I did proof read that last post, FYI.

And yes, I stand by what I said. There are certain character archetypes, settings, and plot devices, which pervade a large quantity of anime.

Not only that, but if you isolate individual genres within anime, not only are there certain genres which are almost entirely specific to anime or originate from anime (mecha, chastity couple harem comedies, DBZ style shounen fighters, gotta-catch 'em all/monster hunter series) but even genres which are not specific to anime have specific traits which routinely differentiate their anime versions.

For example, it's a fact that most anime slice-of-life comedies feature a cast which centers around high school females in high school settings. This is not true for say, American Live Action Slice-Of-Life Comedies, which tend to focus on middle-aged men doing thing at home or their places of work.

Character Archetypes which are ubiquitous in anime:

Tsundere - The ultimate anime character archetype, needs no explanation

Hot-blooded-fighter: Naruto, Luffy, Natsu, Kenichi, Goku etc.

Bishounen - Again needs no explanation.

Harem Dummy: Basically just a lifeless dummy to be fought over by various hot women. Again, needs no explanation.

Plot Archetypes:

Shounen fighter

Mahou Shoujo

Harem

Mecha

Stylistic Traits:

Stylized character style with spiky, impossibly colored hair, big eyes, and noticeably similar style across 90% of titles.

Over the top expressions, with certain types of faces signifying violence, embarrassment, and despair being popular across most titles.

Detailed background which often feature expressive use of texture and patterns to evoke emotions.

Almost all titles place a great deal of importance upon music and musical sequences, especially the intro and outro.

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

Of course not. Hollywood films have a dozen or so well-worn themes; so do television shows. You wouldn't consider these "genres" either, would you?

And while anime certainly has become more narrow in the half-dozen or so years that I have been watching it, I think your 90% figure reflects your own viewing decisions as much as the range of diversity in Japanese animation. Over the past year or so I've watched shows like Hyouge Mono, Space Brothers, Usagi Drop, Madoka Magica, Mine Fujiko, AKB0048, and Sakamichi no Apollon. I would hardly lump them all together into a "genre" called "anime."

Yes, I consider hollywood films to be a genre. There are certain stylistic features which define most hollywood films.

[hyl]

edit:time to criticize your post more thoroughly

Originally Posted by NinjaRealist

I don't proof read everything I post, but I did proof read that last post, FYI.

And yes, I stand by what I said. There are certain character archetypes, settings, and plot devices, which pervade a large quantity of anime.

Not only that, but if you isolate individual genres within anime, not only are there certain genres which are almost entirely specific to anime or originate from anime (mecha, chastity couple harem comedies, DBZ style shounen fighters, gotta-catch 'em all/monster hunter series) but even genres which are not specific to anime have specific traits which routinely differentiate their anime versions.

For example, it's a fact that most anime slice-of-life comedies feature a cast which centers around high school females in high school settings. This is not true for say, American Live Action Slice-Of-Life Comedies, which tend to focus on middle-aged men doing thing at home or their places of work.

It does not matter where that genre originated.
For example the Roman-Greco tragedy and the modern tragedy, despite being alot different from and have a different audience, follow the basic "rules" of a tragedy.
Brittish and American comedies have very distinct features that the other don't have, but both are still essentially a comedy

Originally Posted by NinjaRealist

Character Archetypes which are ubiquitous in anime:

Tsundere - The ultimate anime character archetype, needs no explanation

Hot-blooded-fighter: Naruto, Luffy, Natsu, Kenichi, Goku etc.

Bishounen - Again needs no explanation.

Harem Dummy: Basically just a lifeless dummy to be fought over by various hot women. Again, needs no explanation.

So what has this to do with genres? Character archetypes are not limited to a specific genre.
For example tsunderes can be easily found in comedies, romances, shounen action series, shoujo etc.

Originally Posted by NinjaRealist

Plot Archetypes:

Shounen fighter

Mahou Shoujo

Harem

Mecha

This is closer to what i would call a genre.

Originally Posted by NinjaRealist

Stylistic Traits:

Stylized character style with spiky, impossibly colored hair, big eyes, and noticeably similar style across 90% of titles.

Over the top expressions, with certain types of faces signifying violence, embarrassment, and despair being popular across most titles.

Detailed background which often feature expressive use of texture and patterns to evoke emotions.

Almost all titles place a great deal of importance upon music and musical sequences, especially the intro and outro.

Same thing what i typed for character archetypes, also applies to style.

[Kyuu]

Originally Posted by NinjaRealist

Ahhh, but there are story themes which seem to pervade 90% of anime,

Name that Genre, buddy.

[DawnEmperor]

Seriously, why are we seeing this topic again? Honestly, it's all animation; it differs in terms of genre, demographic, style, country of origin, etc.

I use anime for convenience, but I acknowledge that there's a wide variety of genres and style. While there are certain styles in Japanese animation which have become very commonplace, and the similarity of that style(such as Avatar) has created certain animesque conventions, ultimately it's all within the realm of animation.

[aohige]

We could just go back to Japanimation.